Origin of God's Morality.

[civilwarbuff]

Is asking others to prove a negative your hobby?

There is no asking to prove a negative in that statement; I am not asking to you prove God did not create the universe. I am asking you to show that it was done in some other way. Huge difference......

 

[civilwarbuff]

didnt bring up the term proof, civilwar did.

Yep, did use the word proof....evidence is what I should have used and I did edit it.

Willing to accept theological and biblical evidence? If not, we are just wasting time.

So, are you?

 

[Davian]

Mental exercise, for those who can engage.

By "engage", do you mean "give your particular religion the benefit of the doubt"?

The Church does not impose her beliefs on anyone.

Outside of childhood indoctrination, I suppose not. It has been some time since they burned people at the stake.

She proposes a system presented by Jesus Christ through His apostles.

Allegedly. It not like we have anything actually written by Jesus, if he existed at all.

Ultimately, God will judge everyone according to His teaching. He will take into account any mental deficiency one has.

How generous of him.

For example, someone who has not been presented with the faith will not be accountable, one who has been presented but lacks the mental capacity to rationally choose right will not be accountable. To those who are shown, and accept, much will be expected. See the parable of the Talents for more...

I do not know if I have been shown or not. Is that the one that requires virtually all of mainstream science to be wrong in order to accommodate its belief?

Not a very good guess. I often do not think like Him.

And how exactly are you privy to what your god thinks?

That means I'm a sinner. But I do pray, and seek, and often find what God thinks. It's not hard, you just have to be humble and listen.

Do you hear voices?

It may have been to someone else, but it's not a private forum.

Then you would be retracting your accusation of intellectual bankruptcy on my part. A simple apology will suffice.

Well, I did present it. You can lead a horse to water...

No, in post #700 you stated that your religion was testable and falsifiable. That is not what you presented, and not in a new thread.

I can't help it if you're not willing to do a bit of the work.

The burden of evidence lies with you. I am just an observer here.

I won't deal with someone who just sits there with arms folded, scowling the whole while.

lol. I am not scowling. Be sure not to project your feelings onto others.

If you're interested in God, you will read and understand the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or any of a number of other systematic theology texts. Summa Theologiae might be a good start, too.

I am not interested in gods. I am interested in observing religionists justify their beliefs. Will they step up the plate, or evade, obfuscate, attempt to shift the burden of evidence, and ask others to prove negatives, among other fallacies.

 

[Davian]

Very self-serving. Bravo.

Ask a loaded question, receive a commensurate answer.

Why do you ask? Is there something offensive about my sig to you?

Not at all. The first two kind of repeat. What do they refer to?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I am just an observer here.

If you were just an observer, you would be silent....guess what you are not?

 

[Davian]

Willing to accept theological and biblical evidence? If not, we are just wasting time.

To evaluate your evidence, in whatever form it might take, I would need it presented in the context of a testable, falsifiable hypothesis, with robust definitions for the terms involved.

I am not expecting that you can accomplish this.

 

[Davian]

If you were just an observer, you would be silent....guess what you are not?

What about being an observer requires silence? I am simply stating that I am not here to champion science or promote my views.

The floor is yours.

 

[civilwarbuff]

To evaluate your evidence, in whatever form it might take, I would need it presented in the context of a testable, falsifiable hypothesis, with robust definitions for the terms involved.

I am not expecting that you can accomplish this.

I will take that as a no.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

What about being an observer requires silence? I am simply stating that I am not here to champion science or promote my views.

The floor is yours.

 

[Davian]

I will take that as a no.....

How else am I to evaluate the evidence?

 

[Davian]

What brings you here, if not to defend your beliefs?

 

[Davian]

There is no asking to prove a negative in that statement; I am not asking to you prove God did not create the universe. I am asking you to show that it was done in some other way. Huge difference......

Not really, as they are both fallacious. That others do not or cannot offer an alternative explanation in no way lends support for yours. At best, you would simply be setting up a false dichotomy. You could both be wrong.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not really, as they are both fallacious. That others do not or cannot offer an alternative explanation in no way lends support for yours. At best, you would simply be setting up a false dichotomy. You could both be wrong.

OK, I didn't think it was really that hard of a question especially if you agree with the prevailing idea's of cosmologists. How was the universe created? Is that simple enuff?

 

[Davian]

OK, I didn't think it was really that hard of a question

I was not describing it as hard, but your use of it as being fallacious.

especially if you agree with the prevailing idea's of cosmologists.

I neither agree nor disagree with them.

How was the universe created? Is that simple enuff?

Having seen how tortured inflation theory, probably not, but your question has all the indication of a red herring, unless you can relate it to the OP.

I suggest that cosmology questions are more appropriate for the Physical & Life Sciences forum.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I suggest that cosmology questions are more appropriate for the Physical & Life Sciences forum.

Yes, you are right but I doubt I would get a solid answer from you there either......

 

[Davian]

Yes, you are right but I doubt I would get a solid answer from you there either......

No, I have been very consistent with my response to this question; I don't know.

 

[Hoghead1]

Do you believe Darwin's theory of evolution? Where's the proof for that?

Evolution is probably one of teh best-supported theories in modern science. There are tons of proof. The fossils, the enormous age of the universe, the similarities in creatures, the fact that reality is all interconnected and in a continual state of flux.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

When you answer the question I asked, sure.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course, missing the point. The point is that there is no "Argument from ignorance".

Yes, there is. The crux of the case you've presented thus far is an argument from ignorance:

Actually, no, it can't Our God is the first cause of everything. Lightning, thunder, etc. Trace it all back, you'll find a reason for everything. When you get to a point of I don't know, you've figured it out-God.

I wouldn't call that gaps. But you would. Whatever. What I was saying is that, when you study the cause of something, you get to another thing, which requires a cause as well. And so on and so on. When you get to a point where there is no known cause, it's God. There is no known cause of the universe.

Obfuscation. I asked if you agree "that everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good." You said yes. I asked why? You said something about well-being. I asked if you would agree that this is conscience? You said that's the wrong question. So, if well-being for the sake of humanity isn't a product of conscience, what is it a product of?

Actually, you asked who determines whether what you do is good or bad. That is the wrong question, as I pointed out previously.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Truth is, you're speaking of the Western world, but in Africa, many places don't exist on public opinion polls and a good dose of prime time television and reality TV. Many in Eastern Asia don't have those things to rely on, either, yet they, too, know that they are absolutely obligated to be and do good. So where does this universal obligation to be and do good come from? That's the question I'm waiting on an answer too, from our colleagues in the atheist community.

I already gave you my answer. You've barely touched it, so don't complain that no one has responded.