Origin of God's Morality.

[Root of Jesse]

But there is a universe, so there is something to study. What does this have to do with your God?

The universe is His creation. If He hadn't created it, there would be no study, no nuttin.

So you don't know what an argument from ignorance is?

I guess not. I have these :

1. The Argument from Change
2. The Argument from Efficient Causality
3. The Argument from Time and Contingency
4. The Argument from Degrees of Perfection
5. The Design Argument
6. The Kalam Argument
7. The Argument from Contingency
8. The Argument from the World as an Interacting Whole
9. The Argument from Miracles
10. The Argument from Consciousness
11. The Argument from Truth
12. The Argument from the Origin of the Idea of God
13. The Ontological Argument
14. The Moral Argument
15. The Argument from Conscience
16. The Argument from Desire
17. The Argument from Aesthetic Experience
18. The Argument from Religious Experience
19. The Common Consent Argument
20. Pascal's Wager

I already answered your question:

Yeah, with a non-answer. I guess we're done, there.

 

[Root of Jesse]

And yet, despite having the "complete Truth," and despite having a rock-solid case to present, all you can do is obfuscate.

Pot meet kettle. I asked you a question, you said it's the wrong question. LOLOLOL!

 

[David4223]

MOD HAT ON

Remember to address the content of the post and not attack the poster's character. There have been several violations in this thread.

If further violations occur, staff actions will need to be handed out and this thread may be permanently closed.

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MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Root of Jesse]

My impression is that you've never really encountered many atheists, have you? There are quite a few basic misconceptions in your post.

I actually don't believe there are many atheists...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Indeed, that is exactly the point....

Using logical fallacies, and proud of it.



So???

Well... all those things were attributed to gods at one point, using the exact same fallacious reasoning as you are doing here.

Well, they are all attributable to God, ultimately. Regarding "desease", which I assume is "disease", that came about because of free will.

And none of them said "we don't know, so therefor god..."
Instead, they said "we don't know, so let's try and find out..."

Um, yeah, they did. They realize there's a point where we can't know unless God reveals it. But they do keep trying. In fact, they try to prove things by saying there is no God, but that doesn't work, just ask Darwin.

...except your god, I bet.
Let the special pleading begin.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The universe is His creation. If He hadn't created it, there would be no study, no nuttin.

You'll need to support this claim.

I guess not. I have these :

1. The Argument from Change
2. The Argument from Efficient Causality
3. The Argument from Time and Contingency
4. The Argument from Degrees of Perfection
5. The Design Argument
6. The Kalam Argument
7. The Argument from Contingency
8. The Argument from the World as an Interacting Whole
9. The Argument from Miracles
10. The Argument from Consciousness
11. The Argument from Truth
12. The Argument from the Origin of the Idea of God
13. The Ontological Argument
14. The Moral Argument
15. The Argument from Conscience
16. The Argument from Desire
17. The Argument from Aesthetic Experience
18. The Argument from Religious Experience
19. The Common Consent Argument
20. Pascal's Wager

Gish gallop. Those are just links to the website you presented earlier. I can do that too.

Yeah, with a non-answer. I guess we're done, there.

Umm... your question had a premise I did not accept, so yes, I answered it the only appropriate way one could answer a question with a premise they don't accept.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes.

Did you think the Roman Empire was build through anarchy?

Quite a bit, actually. Brute force, mostly. Grinding people into the ground until they submitted, too.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Pot meet kettle. I asked you a question, you said it's the wrong question. LOLOLOL!

So you going to present your case, or retreat pusillanimously?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Um, yeah, they did. They realize there's a point where we can't know unless God reveals it. But they do keep trying. In fact, they try to prove things by saying there is no God, but that doesn't work, just ask Darwin.

It might be beneficial to read up on logically fallacies before continuing.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I've already addressed this.

Refresh my memory. If you addressed it, I didn't see it.

And yet, we live in the most moral society that the world has ever seen.

What a laugh.

Never has there been a society on this planet with that much individual freedoms, rights, security, well-being, safety, health, prosperity, solidarity,...

What freedom? License is more like it. Everything else you said is just wrong.

Again, I already addressed this.
Because the overall health of the society you live in (and by extension: YOUR well-being), is directly dependent on the well-being of its citizens. And in this time of globalization, "citizens" is not restricted to the people in your own country.

So ebola in the US, ZIKA, 150 forms of venereal disease...those are examples of health?

Well-being and tolerance makes up for a productive world where trade and cooperation can thrive.

Along with disease, and threat of violence for holding your beliefs. Europe is not safer since they formed the EU.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So you going to present your case, or retreat pusillanimously?

When you answer the question I asked, sure.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You'll need to support this claim.

Gish gallop. Those are just links to the website you presented earlier. I can do that too.

Of course, missing the point. The point is that there is no "Argument from ignorance".

Umm... your question had a premise I did not accept, so yes, I answered it the only appropriate way one could answer a question with a premise they don't accept.

Obfuscation. I asked if you agree "that everyone in the world knows, deep down, that he is absolutely obligated to be and do good." You said yes. I asked why? You said something about well-being. I asked if you would agree that this is conscience? You said that's the wrong question. So, if well-being for the sake of humanity isn't a product of conscience, what is it a product of?

 

[civilwarbuff]

When you answer the question I asked, sure.

Never gonna happen; atheists don't answer questions.....unless, of course, it is simply with another question.......

 

[redleghunter]

So, if well-being for the sake of humanity isn't a product of conscience, what is it a product of?

The answer will be the 'indifferent river of relativism." It 'pushes and pulls' with the tide of public opinion polls and a good dose of prime time television and 'reality' TV.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The answer will be the 'indifferent river of relativism." It 'pushes and pulls' with the tide of public opinion polls and a good dose of prime time television and 'reality' TV.

Truth is, you're speaking of the Western world, but in Africa, many places don't exist on public opinion polls and a good dose of prime time television and reality TV. Many in Eastern Asia don't have those things to rely on, either, yet they, too, know that they are absolutely obligated to be and do good. So where does this universal obligation to be and do good come from? That's the question I'm waiting on an answer too, from our colleagues in the atheist community.

 

[Davian]

As you are the reason for the excuse...

That is why I am here, to see if you can do any better than excuses.

In your mind, what is the reason for the universe?

Your question is malformed. How do we know that there needs to be a reason, that this question is valid?

Do you concede the balance of my post?

 

[Root of Jesse]

That is why I am here, to see if you can do any better than excuses.

So, waiting for someone to answer a direct question is an excuse? You're a riot, Alice.

Your question is malformed. How do we know that there needs to be a reason, that this question is valid?

How DO we know there needs to be a reason for the universe???

Do you concede the balance of my post?

Nope.

 

[Davian]

Actually, for Catholics and Orthodox, this is not true. We have a documented belief system, which is required to be believed by those who claim to be members of that religion. It is true that many fail to live up to the belief system, but there are no variations acceptable to our documented faiths.

Tell me, exactly how do you police the thoughts of those that self-identify with your religion?

Until you can prove them to be non-fact,

I do find the asking of someone to prove a negative to be intellectually bankrupt, and would agree with Jason that this strays from the OP.

If you ever present your belief system in a testable, falsifiable manner, be sure to start a new thread with it.

you have a problem.

Actually, not really. We have had religionists in high places where I live (Canada) yet religion is thin on the ground, and absent from the public schools and textbooks. The worst is a few kids at school that wear their religion on their sleeve, but we (my teenage children and I) have discussed how to deal with them.

My teenagers will often observe the exchanges I have with religionists in these forums, as part of those discussions.

 

[Davian]

So, waiting for someone to answer a direct question is an excuse?

When used as an excuse, yes.

You're a riot, Alice.

Thank you, I am here all week.

How DO we know there needs to be a reason for the universe???

I don't know that there needs to be a reason for the universe. How would I?

Nope.

Understandably.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Tell me, exactly how do you police the thoughts of those that self-identify with your religion?

If you believe in the system, you self-police.

I do find the asking of someone to prove a negative to be intellectually bankrupt, and would agree with Jason that this strays from the OP.

I find that saying you want to have a discussion and then not answering the questions asked to be intellectually bankrupt.

If you ever present your belief system in a testable, falsifiable manner, be sure to start a new thread with it.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, all the footnotes and Scripture references. It's been tested for 2000 years, and if it was false, would have been proven by now. We can prove that Catholics who don't act Catholic according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church tend to fall outside the universal desire for well-being.

Actually, not really. We have had religionists in high places where I live (Canada) yet religion is thin on the ground, and absent from the public schools and textbooks. The worst is a few kids at school that wear their religion on their sleeve, but we (my teenage children and I) have discussed how to deal with them.

I'm aware of how thin the Christian faith is in the western world. But it's not a popularity contest.

My teenagers will often observe the exchanges I have with religionists in these forums, as part of those discussions.

And mine know their faith well enough to combat yours...