Predestination, is it coercive determinism ?

[keltoi]

So they were made to look like God and there is zero that says they had the nature of God, in fact, they were very different from God in that they did not have the knowledge of good or evil...which means very little in the context of the question...which is: Why did God put the Tree in the garden knowing they would eat from it?

This topic is about predestination not about God's reason for putting a tree in a garden.
The suggestion they were made to look like God isn't accurate, humanity was created in the image of God in God's likeness. My family have often said I am like my Great Uncle, who I have never met, its not that I look like him but I act like him. Apparently he was a really great guy.

Genesis 1:26 says, and this is from the original Hebrew, "And said God, let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness". I haven't heard anyone ever suggest the Holy Spirit was bipedal, have you? so there is more to image and likeness than how we appear physically.

 

[98cwitr]

This topic is about predestination not about God's reason for putting a tree in a garden.
The suggestion they were made to look like God isn't accurate, humanity was created in the image of God in God's likeness. My family have often said I am like my Great Uncle, who I have never met, its not that I look like him but I act like him. Apparently he was a really great guy.

Genesis 1:26 says, and this is from the original Hebrew, "And said God, let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness". I haven't heard anyone ever suggest the Holy Spirit was bipedal, have you? so there is more to image and likeness than how we appear physically.

Would you please address the question?

 

[keltoi]

Would you please address the question?

I'm keeping this topic on topic, if you wish to divert from the topic of this topic that's fine but I'm not. I'll say it again I'm not your monkey and I don't work in your circus. If you wish to start a new thread on the reasons God did various things I'll answer your questions there. I will concentrate on the topic of predestination as it pertains to salvation here.

 

[Hoghead1]

This topic is about predestination not about God's reason for putting a tree in a garden.
The suggestion they were made to look like God isn't accurate, humanity was created in the image of God in God's likeness. My family have often said I am like my Great Uncle, who I have never met, its not that I look like him but I act like him. Apparently he was a really great guy.

Genesis 1:26 says, and this is from the original Hebrew, "And said God, let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness". I haven't heard anyone ever suggest the Holy Spirit was bipedal, have you? so there is more to image and likeness than how we appear physically.

OK, if the Holy Spirit isn't bipedal, then I guess any one can beat him or her in a bicycle race. After all, without legs, how can you ride a bike? I am not so naïve as to assume that God looks identical to us. However, there must be some likeness, some uniformity. Maybe God isn't exactly bipedal, but certainly god must have a physical dimension, a body, which I think is the universe. After all, the Bible attributes just about every single body art to God, which strongly suggests the biblical authors thought of God as a physical being.

 

[keltoi]

I am not so naïve as to assume that God looks identical to us. However, there must be some likeness, some uniformity.

I never said there isn't a physical likeness, what I am saying is it more than just appearance.

Maybe God isn't exactly bipedal, but certainly god must have a physical dimension, a body, which I think is the universe. After all, the Bible attributes just about every single body art to God, which strongly suggests the biblical authors thought of God as a physical being.

We know that Jacob wrestled with God, at first Genesis 32 just says it is a man, and survived so yes there is a physical likeness. But again Humanity was made in God's image and likeness.

 

[Hoghead1]

I never said there isn't a physical likeness, what I am saying is it more than just appearance.
We know that Jacob wrestled with God, at first Genesis 32 just says it is a man, and survived so yes there is a physical likeness. But again Humanity was made in God's image and likeness.

There is a likeness, but it's more than just appearance? Could you elaborate that a bit more?

 

[keltoi]

There is a likeness, but it's more than just appearance? Could you elaborate that a bit more?

I already did so here it is again.

The suggestion they were made to look like God isn't accurate, humanity was created in the image of God in God's likeness. My family have often said I am like my Great Uncle, who I have never met, its not that I look like him but I act like him. Apparently he was a really great guy.

This is in regard to the suggestion that the nature of humans stops us from having free will and that we will act according to our nature. My point is our nature come from God creating us in his image and likeness yet Adam and Eve still ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge which went against our nature before the fall.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm keeping this topic on topic, if you wish to divert from the topic of this topic that's fine but I'm not. I'll say it again I'm not your monkey and I don't work in your circus. If you wish to start a new thread on the reasons God did various things I'll answer your questions there. I will concentrate on the topic of predestination as it pertains to salvation here.

My question is directly related.

 

[98cwitr]

I already did so here it is again.
This is in regard to the suggestion that the nature of humans stops us from having free will and that we will act according to our nature. My point is our nature come from God creating us in his image and likeness yet Adam and Eve still ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge which went against our nature before the fall.

It didnt...they had the nature of which they could eat (ie: disobey). God can't disobey Himself! Therefore His nature != their nature.

 

[keltoi]

My question is directly related.

I don't think it is.

It didnt...they had the nature of which they could eat (ie: disobey). God can't disobey Himself! Therefore His nature != their nature.

Well where did our nature come from if it wasn't from God? You said our freewill isn't free because we act on our nature, so if Adam and Eve acted on their nature where did their nature come from if not from God? Do you see what I've done here? I've basically thrown your belief back at you and now it is up to you to justify what you believe just like I've been politely asking you to do most of this conversation.

Everything, like you have suggested, either come from God so he is ultimately responsible for all the evil and the mess this world is in, or we have our own free will and we are ultimately responsible for our own actions after Christ's death and resurrection. I suggest Adam and Eve used their own freewill and thus humanity is responsible for the mess it is in, you suggest the exact opposite in that God created evil and he is responsible for the mess we are in.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Would you please address the question?

Which question are you demanding an answer to? Who are you quoting? Notice above my question your question is quoted?

 

[98cwitr]

I don't think it is.
Well where did our nature come from if it wasn't from God? You said our freewill isn't free because we act on our nature, so if Adam and Eve acted on their nature where did their nature come from if not from God? Do you see what I've done here? I've basically thrown your belief back at you and now it is up to you to justify what you believe just like I've been politely asking you to do most of this conversation.

Exactly...their nature came from God. He forms all of our hearts: Psalm 33:15

Everything, like you have suggested, either come from God so he is ultimately responsible for all the evil and the mess this world is in, or we have our own free will and we are ultimately responsible for our own actions after Christ's death and resurrection. I suggest Adam and Eve used their own freewill and thus humanity is responsible for the mess it is in, you suggest the exact opposite in that God created evil and he is responsible for the mess we are in.

You're still not addressing as to why God, being Omniscient, decided to put the tree in the garden.

 

[Albion]

Predestination is a process of self discover to knowing the gifts that God has given us, in order to reach our true potentials as servants of Christ.

In Christ we are predestined to know all truth and how we come to understand who we are and what we are gifted with, draws us closer to God and God being all knowing helps us to function efficiently and effectively, the way that we were created to function, when God brought us into the world.

This is why the word Election may be the better one to use. It's less susceptible to be being made to mean something other than it does (as opposed to predestination).

 

[Thursday]

Predestination is a process of self discover to knowing the gifts that God has given us, in order to reach our true potentials as servants of Christ.

In Christ we are predestined to know all truth and how we come to understand who we are and what we are gifted with, draws us closer to God and God being all knowing helps us to function efficiently and effectively, the way that we were created to function, when God brought us into the world.

All men are predestined to follow Christ to the extent that Jesus died for their sins.

Whether or not they live up to their destiny in heaven is not the fault of God. We must make choices and our choices determine our eternal consequences. We choose to cooperate with or reject God's grace.

 

[mikpat]

Born Again,

Posted over 100 lines of biblical phrases————what the Pharisees use to do,,,,posted for public consumption and believed quantity was an important factor in loving God……….comes from the TSK, probably
Born Again , has cast away a Golden Ring for a piece of brass ring.

"Born Again" didn't waste time getting the Protestant Bible GNV……….why not the KJV,,maybe has both for a wider interpretation. A good one is referring to Peter as the " Stone" that's a good one,
Peter= Petrus (Latin) related to a rock = Peter ——- stone in Latin is "lapis" nice try.

Many fallen-away Catholics become extremely critical of the religion they abandoned———some where up in that cacophony of Biblical phrases, Born Again becomes rather vicious by referring the Catholic Mass as some sort of satanic rite…..WOW.

i think that mean-spirited accusation is a sign of some undercurrent anger———




AMDG

 

[Berean777]

All men are predestined to follow Christ to the extent that Jesus died for their sins.

Whether or not they live up to their destiny in heaven is not the fault of God. We must make choices and our choices determine our eternal consequences. We choose to cooperate with or reject God's grace.

That being said all of us are purposed with an inherent gift to excel in. As unique individuals, God elects us to excel for the intended purpose that he created us for. In Christ we become perfected for the role was set aside for is.

But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. (2 Corinthians 12:9)

God admits that man is fickle and weak, ready to turn against him in a flash. That is why God elects us for a purposed role from birth, to discover who we are and to be made perfect in and through Christ.

The Old Testament shows God telling people to name their sons for the purpose that he has elected them for from birth. This is how God operates with all created things and we are the clock pieces of the clock master's design that fit where we ought to. Though we have a choice but that doesn't stop God from purposing us for a role in lfe.

 

[Thursday]

That being said all of us are purposed with an inherent gift to excel in. As unique individuals, God elects us to excel for the intended purpose that he created us for. In Christ we become perfected for the role was set aside for is.

We become perfected if we cooperate with God's grace.

 

[Albion]

and we cooperate if God has chosen us to receive the grace that makes faith possible..

 

[Berean777]

We become perfected if we cooperate with God's grace.

That's right.

 

[Berean777]

Both Election and Grace must come together in unison. We are not self made by choice but we choose God to make us who he wanted us to be all along and in this regard we are perfected in and through Christ.