LDS Which Church Really Saves?

[Rescued One]

We're off to a good start.

"There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

"Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).

And Jesus Himself said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me’” (John 14:6).


"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life."
Marion G. Romney, CR, April 1961, 119

"Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church."
Mark E. Petersen, Salvation Comes through the Church, Ensign, July 1973

"This gospel has often been spoken of as a way of life. This however is not quite accurate. Consisting as it does of the principles and ordinances necessary to man's exaltation it is not just a way of life, it is the one and only way of life by which men may accomplish the full purpose of their mortality."
Marion G. Romney, CR, October 1958, p.95


" . . . and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist,"
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312

"If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p. 670

Resurrection isn't salvation. It happens to people who never become Mormons.

 

[Super14LDS]

Denominations are divisions which should never have come into existence, but because of Satan on one hand, and "the flesh" on the other hand, they do exist, and will exist until the Rapture of the Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).

No church can save, and every church that claims that it can save is a false church, and presents false Christianity. It is only by the power of the true Gospel (actually the Word of God) and the power of the Holy Spirit, that sinners can repent and turn to Christ for salvation.

The LDS church claims that it has the *restored* Gospel. When you think about it, that is an insult to God, since it implies that for about 1,900 years the true Gospel had disappeared, or been corrupted. But the true Gospel has always remained in Scripture, and anyone who would even simply quote Scripture pertaining to the Gospel would be presenting the true Gospel.

You are correct that denominations will never represent the one faith and one doctrine required of the one church as proscribed in scripture.

"It comes down to authority" this was the first hit on Google for that phrase with lds appended. A quick way to learn the pros and cons of an idea from a lds perspective.

... There are understandable justifications for individuals who choose to leave the church ... This post is not meant to be an attack on those who don’t believe in the church but rather simply my testimony as to why I believe it to be true.

So with all this being said, let me start with just a couple of reasons of why I still believe the way I do.

The Strength of Our Position

... Many years ago there came to Salt Lake City a learned doctor of divinity, a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I became well acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen, languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy, and was never weary of displaying his vast erudition. One day he said to me: “You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position.

It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it.

The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, for they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we really have, as we claim, the apostolic succession from St. Peter, there was no need for Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days.”

It really is one or the other when it comes down to authority. It either continued through the apostles to the modern day or it was lost when they died and thus a restoration of those keys was needed to restore the gospel in our day. This idea or notion of the need to have the gospel restored is such a crucial aspect to Mormon theology. It either happened or it didn’t.

What Happened to the Billions of Individuals Who Died Not Ever Hearing About Christ?

So we know that Christ Himself taught that He was “the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6.) If this premise is true and we know that baptism is an essential ordinance that one must receive in order to receive salvation, what happens to all those who died never being baptized? What happens to the billions of individuals who have never heard about Christ. ...

http://www.ldssmile.com/2014/07/01/strength-position/

I included the last bit to show our Heavenly Father didn't just abandon Gandhi and everyone who has or will die without the opportunity to hear the gospel.

 

[Rescued One]

You are correct that denominations will never represent the one faith and one doctrine required of the one church as proscribed in scripture.

"It comes down to authority" this was the first hit on Google for that phrase with lds appended. A quick way to learn the pros and cons of an idea from a lds perspective.

There are understandable justifications for individuals who choose to leave the church ... This post is not meant to be an attack on those who don’t believe in the church but rather simply my testimony as to why I believe it to be true.

So with all this being said, let me start with just a couple of reasons of why I still believe the way I do.

The Strength of Our Position

... Many years ago there came to Salt Lake City a learned doctor of divinity, a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I became well acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen, languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy, and was never weary of displaying his vast erudition. One day he said to me: “You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position.

It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it.

The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, for they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we really have, as we claim, the apostolic succession from St. Peter, there was no need for Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days.”

It really is one or the other when it comes down to authority. It either continued through the apostles to the modern day or it was lost when they died and thus a restoration of those keys was needed to restore the gospel in our day. This idea or notion of the need to have the gospel restored is such a crucial aspect to Mormon theology. It either happened or it didn’t.

Neither of those churches has authority. Authority is given to individuals by God. We, the believers, are a royal priesthood.

What Happened to the Billions of Individuals Who Died Not Ever Hearing About Christ?

They are without excuse. And God doesn't punish those who don't deserve it.

So we know that Christ Himself taught that He was “the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6.) If this premise is true and we know that baptism is an essential ordinance that one must receive in order to receive salvation, what happens to all those who died never being baptized? What happens to the billions of individuals who have never heard about Christ. ...

And noone comes unto Christ except those whom the Father gives to His Son. Salvation comes first via the new birth; afterwards those who are His do the works that believers have been before ordained to do.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I included the last bit to show our Heavenly Father didn't just abandon Gandhi and everyone who has or will die without the opportunity to hear the gospel.

Ghandhi knew about Christianity. He didn't want to become a Christian.

 

[JoeP222w]

No church saves anyone. Jesus Christ is the one and only true and living God, He is the only one who saves.

 

[Rescued One]

Actually they can by preaching the gospel and leading people to Christ.

Ultimately Jesus does the saving but churches can be the instrument God uses to reveal himself.

The church still doesn't save. Those in the church can plant and water, but it's God Who causes the growth.

 

[Rescued One]

No church saves anyone. Jesus Christ is the one and only true and living God, He is the only one who saves.

AMEN!

 

[Rescued One]

... First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22). ...

Impossible!

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30.) There is no salvation or exaltation for us outside of the Church. Through it we receive baptism, priesthood, celestial marriage, and other vital ordinances.
Ezra Taft Benson, Jesus Christ—Gifts and Expectations, Ensign, December 1988

If persons separate themselves from the Lord’s church, they thereby separate themselves from his means of salvation, for salvation is through the Church.
Mark E. Peterson, “Salvation Comes through the Church,” Ensign, July 1973, 108

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are correct that denominations will never represent the one faith and one doctrine required of the one church as proscribed in scripture

The Strength of Our Position
... Many years ago there came to Salt Lake City a learned doctor of divinity, a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I became well acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen, languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy, and was never weary of displaying his vast erudition. One day he said to me: “You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position.

It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it.

The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, for they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we really have, as we claim, the apostolic succession from St. Peter, there was no need for Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days.”

It really is one or the other when it comes down to authority. It either continued through the apostles to the modern day or it was lost when they died and thus a restoration of those keys was needed to restore the gospel in our day. This idea or notion of the need to have the gospel restored is such a crucial aspect to Mormon theology. It either

What is the one doctrine required of the 'one true church'?

No one needs a church to come to Jesus. The Bible and it's knowledge is sufficient.

That is the lie that you have come to believe, that the Lord is not available to us WITHOUT a church. Your church does not have authority. There is no Aaronic or Melchezedek priesthood that is theirs. We know the truth of where these priesthoods came from and how they were passed down.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life."
Marion G. Romney, CR, April 1961, 119

"Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church."
Mark E. Petersen, Salvation Comes through the Church, Ensign, July 1973

" . . . and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist,"
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312

"If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p. 670

I wonder why no one who is a Mormon can see that this is complete blasphemy AGAINST Jesus Christ.

Would you Mormons read the words they wrote. It shows where their heart is.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We're off to a good start.

"There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

"Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).

And Jesus Himself said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me’” (John 14:6).


"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life."
Marion G. Romney, CR, April 1961, 119

"Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church."
Mark E. Petersen, Salvation Comes through the Church, Ensign, July 1973

"This gospel has often been spoken of as a way of life. This however is not quite accurate. Consisting as it does of the principles and ordinances necessary to man's exaltation it is not just a way of life, it is the one and only way of life by which men may accomplish the full purpose of their mortality."
Marion G. Romney, CR, October 1958, p.95


" . . . and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist,"
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312

"If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p. 670

Resurrection isn't salvation. It happens to people who never become Mormons.

These are awesome quotes that show the true intentions of the LDS church, not to serve Jesus, but to become what the church 'thinks' it is. This is some serious blasphemy.

 

[Super14LDS]

Neither of those churches has authority. Authority is given to individuals by God. We, the believers, are a royal priesthood.

They are without excuse. And God doesn't punish those who don't deserve it.

And noone comes unto Christ except those whom the Father gives to His Son. Salvation comes first via the new birth; afterwards those who are His do the works that believers have been before ordained to do.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ghandhi knew about Christianity. He didn't want to become a Christian.

Here are the concluding paragraphs of a detailed history of the way the Lord calls servants to ministry by one in authority.

... In the New Testament we know the names of two pastors - Timothy and Titus - and the Bible indicates that they were ordained to this position by Paul. In his first letter to Timothy Paul said, "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. (1 Tim 4:14). The Amplified Bible renders this verse as saying, "Do not neglect the gift which is in you which was directly imparted to you [by the Holy Spirit] by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you [at your ordination]."

In his second letter to Timothy Paul wrote, "Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands" (2 Timothy 1:6). While the Bible doesn't specifically say what "gift" Timothy received at the hands of Paul, most biblical scholars agree that it refers to the office of his ministry that was given to him by Paul through the laying on of his hands. And the Bible declares that this ordination "was given thee [Timothy] by prophecy with (by) the laying on of the hands of the presbytery."

Paul told Titus, "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee" (Titus 1:5). The Amplified Bibles translates this as: "For this reason I left you [behind] in Crete, that you might set right what was defective and finish what was left undone, and that you might appoint elders and set them over the churches (assemblies) in every city as I directed you" (Amplified Bible)

An "elder" is an office in the priesthood, as is a deacon, bishop, pastor, or apostle. All of these were ministerial positions and the way people were ordained to these offices were by being appointed by someone in authority "by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." This is not only the way Paul ordained elders in every city he went but he instructed Titus to follow this same procedure.

As we take a close look at what the Bible teaches, in almost every example, what we repeatedly see is that it was those in authority who revealed who should be called to serve in what position. While there may be differences of interpretation concerning certain scriptures, the fact remains that there is a conspicuous absence of any clear example in the Bible that people are to experience a feeling in their heart as a sign that they are called of God.

http://www.14lds.com/called.htm

The word "man" is singular, in Ephesians 2:9

The King James version was translated in an era when the distinction between "thou" and "ye" was still clear. "Thou/thee/thy" was singular, and "ye/you/your" plural.

See this article

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/705324555/Seek-to-be-worthy-of-praise.html?pg=all

For the rest of the story which inspired my appending 14LDS to honor another as we, as a group having one faith proclaim the Lord's one true church.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Here are the concluding paragraphs of a detailed history of the way the Lord calls servants to ministry by one in authority.

... In the New Testament we know the names of two pastors - Timothy and Titus - and the Bible indicates that they were ordained to this position by Paul. In his first letter to Timothy Paul said, "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. (1 Tim 4:14). The Amplified Bible renders this verse as saying, "Do not neglect the gift which is in you which was directly imparted to you [by the Holy Spirit] by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you [at your ordination]."

In his second letter to Timothy Paul wrote, "Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands" (2 Timothy 1:6). While the Bible doesn't specifically say what "gift" Timothy received at the hands of Paul, most biblical scholars agree that it refers to the office of his ministry that was given to him by Paul through the laying on of his hands. And the Bible declares that this ordination "was given thee [Timothy] by prophecy with (by) the laying on of the hands of the presbytery."

Paul told Titus, "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee" (Titus 1:5). The Amplified Bibles translates this as: "For this reason I left you [behind] in Crete, that you might set right what was defective and finish what was left undone, and that you might appoint elders and set them over the churches (assemblies) in every city as I directed you" (Amplified Bible)

An "elder" is an office in the priesthood, as is a deacon, bishop, pastor, or apostle. All of these were ministerial positions and the way people were ordained to these offices were by being appointed by someone in authority "by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." This is not only the way Paul ordained elders in every city he went but he instructed Titus to follow this same procedure.

As we take a close look at what the Bible teaches, in almost every example, what we repeatedly see is that it was those in authority who revealed who should be called to serve in what position. While there may be differences of interpretation concerning certain scriptures, the fact remains that there is a conspicuous absence of any clear example in the Bible that people are to experience a feeling in their heart as a sign that they are called of God.

http://www.14lds.com/called.htm

The word "man" is singular, in Ephesians 2:9

The King James version was translated in an era when the distinction between "thou" and "ye" was still clear. "Thou/thee/thy" was singular, and "ye/you/your" plural.

See this article

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/705324555/Seek-to-be-worthy-of-praise.html?pg=all

For the rest of the story which inspired my appending 14LDS to honor another as we, as a group having one faith proclaim the Lord's one true church.

Yes, the original apostles had authority, but who are these people you follow?

 

[rturner76]

IMO The Catholic Church is the one true and apostolic church. Having been founded by Peter the disciple who was given the keys to the church by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church decided the Bible cannon and gave us the teachings used by all churches today

 

[Vicomte13]

Jesus never said anyone was in a lower degree of heaven,

Actually, he did. When Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest of the prophets, but that the least of those in the Kingdom was greater than he, he was saying just exactly that - there are ranks in "heaven", or in any case in the Reign of God.

Likewise, when he says that those who make themselves great will be lesser.

Or when he says that he who teaches men to disregard the least of his precepts will be least in Heaven.

In all three cases Jesus makes distinctions of what people will be in Heaven.

In Revelation, there are twelve men seated on thrones with crowns, who cast down their crowns. Those twelve are greater than any of the other throngs in Heaven.

The New Testament, when it refers to heaven at all, and people in it, routinely speaks of greater and lesser humans, in heaven.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, he did. When Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest of the prophets, but that the least of those in the Kingdom was greater than he, he was saying just exactly that - there are ranks in "heaven", or in any case in the Reign of God.

Likewise, when he says that those who make themselves great will be lesser.

Or when he says that he who teaches men to disregard the least of his precepts will be least in Heaven.

In all three cases Jesus makes distinctions of what people will be in Heaven.

In Revelation, there are twelve men seated on thrones with crowns, who cast down their crowns. Those twelve are greater than any of the other throngs in Heaven.

The New Testament, when it refers to heaven at all, and people in it, routinely speaks of greater and lesser humans, in heaven.

I do not think so.

He was saying that the GREATEST on earth, would be less than the LEAST in heaven.

Maybe read that chapter again.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

How can a person tell? I'll give my answer after several responses.

The answer as I see it is rather obvious.
No church saves.

Jesus Christ is the only Savior. In him is my trust, my passage to redemption, my satisfaction in the glory of the Father, and my rebirth as a new creation having put aside the worldly energies I was born into, and washed clean in the blood of the lamb, the waters of life, I am reborn his and his alone.

Praise the Lord.
Hallelujah!

No building can contain the power of God. Therefore, no structure labeled house of God, is capable of saving people because it is there standing with a denominational doctrine attached to its roof.

Jesus Saves.
That's it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

IMO The Catholic Church is the one true and apostolic church. Having been founded by Peter the disciple who was given the keys to the church by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church decided the Bible cannon and gave us the teachings used by all churches today

That seems to be a Catholic doctrine, but many do not agree with you.

 

[tickingclocker]

No church saves. Salvation is entirely of the Lord.

Exactly. The church is the Bride of Christ, never Jesus Christ Himself. Only Jesus Christ can save through His blood. Christians know this.

The rightful crowned monarch of the United Kingdom is Queen Elizabeth II, not Prince Phillip, her husband. He's a nice guy, sure, but he can NEVER engage the rulership of the monarchy. Obviously JS didn't grasp the concept when he first set up the LDS, and they have never bothered to correct the error since. Hmmm.....

 

[bbbbbbb]

IMO The Catholic Church is the one true and apostolic church. Having been founded by Peter the disciple who was given the keys to the church by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church decided the Bible cannon and gave us the teachings used by all churches today

I like that Bible cannon -

 

[rturner76]

That seems to be a Catholic doctrine, but many do not agree with you.

I understand it's only my opinion. I was raised in an AME (African Methodist Episcopal) church and baptized in a Lutheran church so I have spent plenty of time in Protestant churches and got goose bumps and teary eyed many times. I even taught the kids summer school and an after school program at a Lutheran church so there is nothing wrong with it. I just felt called to the Transubstantiation. There are even still some things I have a hard time believing but I take it on faith an a mystery