Believe the Bible - bend the Bible - deny the Bible... pick one

[sculleywr]

2000 years ago, when mostly only the rich could read, exhortation was needed, and preaching the word. However, we all have bibles now and can read. We don't need to hear the word preached because we can read it daily. We don't need exhortation either because the scriptures do a better job of that than any Church does today. Matter of fact, its best to let the scriptures be the teacher and exhorter, because i know we are in the days where sound doctrine is not being taught. What good does it do to listen to a preacher if that preacher doesn't even follow Paul's example? Paul was not political, but he gave up all things for Christ. He wanted no earthly nation or its contention and division. How do we have one mind, undivided, speaking the same thing, when we are Americans ans Europeans, democrats and republicans, socialists and capitalists? WE cant. Paul wanted only Christ and Heaven. What good does it do to follow a preacher, when he will only lead us astray with his own bad example? I will follow Paul, the Churches can follow Clinton and Trump.

So in the end, you are your own Pope.

Sola Scriptura didn't rid the problem of the pope. It multiplied that problem by millions.

 

[Extraneous]

I'll just describe what you just said with what you started it with: It's so arrogant that it can't even admit its mistakes.

So take your HATRED elsewhere. Nobody is buying your unproven and hate-based arguments. Come back when you have empirical descriptions.

Most people are not buying EO nonsense either, or else they would be EO. Take your hatred elsewhere. There is no difference between us, you say im wrong, i say you're wrong. So if my words are hate so are yours.

 

[Extraneous]

So in the end, you are your own Pope.

Sola Scriptura didn't rid the problem of the pope. It multiplied that problem by millions.

I follow Christ, Paul and the spirit. You are the one who cant understand scripture and need a teacher. Its not so hard to understand works of flesh verses spirit. Dont be afraid to grow up little brother.

 

[sculleywr]

Most people are not buying EO nonsense either, or else they would be EO. Take your hatred elsewhere. There is no difference between us, you say im wrong, i say you're wrong. So if my words are hate so are yours.

I don't hate you. I ask you to stop declaring another group is twisting Scriptures and then not proving it, despite the fact that the statement itself, even WITH evidence, is considered flaming in most respects.

By calling you out on flaming, which is, at its most basic essence, nothing but anti-christian hate, I am not being hateful. You used this forum as an opportunity to flame. That is not Christian.

It is not hate to say that you have done wrong, unless you're going to tell me that it is hateful to tell someone that they have sinned.

 

[Extraneous]

I don't hate you. I ask you to stop declaring another group is twisting Scriptures and then not proving it, despite the fact that the statement itself, even WITH evidence, is considered flaming in most respects.

By calling you out on flaming, which is, at its most basic essence, nothing but anti-christian hate, I am not being hateful. You used this forum as an opportunity to flame. That is not Christian.

It is not hate to say that you have done wrong, unless you're going to tell me that it is hateful to tell someone that they have sinned.

So saying someone misinterprets scripture, this is flaming now? Im not going to argue with you about it, you do twist scripture, or let me rephrase it for your delicate ears, you misinterpret scripture. Where does scripture say that we pray to saints? No where except in the twisting of scripture. Where does it say Sunday is holy, or that we fast on certain days? No where except in the twisting of scripture. Where does it say that you have any authority over other Churches? No where, except you know where.

 

[sculleywr]

I follow Christ, Paul and the spirit. You are the one who cant understand scripture and need a teacher. Its not so hard to understand works of flesh verses spirit. Dont be afraid to grow up little brother.

You follow your personal perceptions of Scripture. Whether that is what Christ revealed is debatable, by comparing to how those who directly knew the Apostles received the Scripture, for instance. Those who lived in the time of the Apostles and were not rebuked in the letters to their cities which are in Scripture. If the belief, for instance, that there are bishops at the center of local city churches, is wrong, why did John not rebuke the Ephesians in their letter to them recorded in Revelations for that teaching, when it was one of the seminal teachings of the leader of that time (Ignatius was the bishop of Ephesus following Timothy while John was at Patmos, and wrote that very doctrine in several of his letters which preceded the book of revelation).

 

[sculleywr]

So saying someone misinterprets scripture, this is flaming now? Im not going to argue with you about it, you do twist scripture, or let me rephrase it for your delicate ears, you misinterpret scripture. Where does scripture say that we pray to saints? No where except in the twisting of scripture. Where does it say Sunday is holy, or that we fast on certain days? No where except in the twisting of scripture. Where does it say that you have any authority over other Churches? No where, except you know where.

No, accusing a church organization, and individuals within that organization, of systematic and intentional deception is flaming. Just as Alithis is wrong for accusing me and other Orthodox Christians of worshiping Mary, as far as the rules are concerned.

 

[Extraneous]

No, accusing a church organization, and individuals within that organization, of systematic and intentional deception is flaming. Just as Alithis is wrong for accusing me and other Orthodox Christians of worshiping Mary, as far as the rules are concerned.

Who ever said it was intentional? Do you hear me say that? Nope. I think its ignorance myself. Deception isnt's a requirement for twisting scripture, and ignorance alone is all thats needed.

 

[Extraneous]

You follow your personal perceptions of Scripture. Whether that is what Christ revealed is debatable, by comparing to how those who directly knew the Apostles received the Scripture, for instance. Those who lived in the time of the Apostles and were not rebuked in the letters to their cities which are in Scripture. If the belief, for instance, that there are bishops at the center of local city churches, is wrong, why did John not rebuke the Ephesians in their letter to them recorded in Revelations for that teaching, when it was one of the seminal teachings of the leader of that time (Ignatius was the bishop of Ephesus following Timothy while John was at Patmos, and wrote that very doctrine in several of his letters which preceded the book of revelation).

No one buys your Church authority assertion. That's why there are more Protestants than EO.

 

[sculleywr]

Who ever said it was intentional? Do you hear me say that? Nope. I think its ignorance myself. Deception isnt's a requirement for twisting scripture, and ignorance alone is all thats needed.

The way you put it, it was intentional twisting of Scripture. And besides that, aside from your personal interpretation of Scripture, you have no evidence of twisting, either from ignorance or intent. The Orthodox INTENTIONALLY teaches what it teaches. It always has, for 2000 years. There has never been a change.

 

[sculleywr]

No one buys your Church authority assertion. That's why there are more Protestants than EO.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Take an international number, and the only organization that outnumbers the Orthodox Church's number is Rome. Even putting every single Protestant Church together doesn't come close to THIRD, which is Islam.

So, um, if numbers determines Truth, Islam beats Protestantism, Orthodoxy beats Islam, and RCC beats Orthodoxy.

 

[Extraneous]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Take an international number, and the only organization that outnumbers the Orthodox Church's number is Rome. Even putting every single Protestant Church together doesn't come close to THIRD, which is Islam.

So, um, if numbers determines Truth, Islam beats Protestantism, Orthodoxy beats Islam, and RCC beats Orthodoxy.

There are only 200 or 300 million Orthodox but 900 million Protestants in the world. Unless you are counting yourself with RC now. If that's the case then how can you possibly assert authority over the Church, and tell us we need you to teach us, when you and RC cant even agree? Please, dont try to spin it. Your authority is only in your own minds.

 

[Extraneous]

The way you put it, it was intentional twisting of Scripture. And besides that, aside from your personal interpretation of Scripture, you have no evidence of twisting, either from ignorance or intent. The Orthodox INTENTIONALLY teaches what it teaches. It always has, for 2000 years. There has never been a change.

No, i never implied intent, only ignorance. The intent was fabricated in your mind, just as the authority is as well.

 

[sculleywr]

There are only 200 or 300 million Orthodox but 900 million Protestants in the world. Unless you are counting yourself with RC now. If that's the case then how can you possibly assert authority over the Church, and tell us we need you to teach us, when you and RC cant even agree? Please, dont try to spin it. Your authority is only in your own minds.

That is not an accurate number, because that 200 million doesn't even account for all the Orthodox in Russia ALONE. Now we could use the Wikipedia article, but since the Wiki can be edited by Joe Blow Schmoe, that's not a good source.

And since the Pew Forum openly admits that multiple Protestant denominations have a problematic amount of overlap, meaning that the number of People claiming multiple denominational affiliations is high, it makes the number of Protestants, most likely, according to those who performed the study you are referring to, overblown, at the best.

 

[sculleywr]

No, i never implied intent, only ignorance. The intent was fabricated in your mind, just as the authority is as well.

The Orthodox Church has, for 2000 years, intentionally taught what it teaches today.

 

[Hoghead1]

You do not think 'bend' the Bible or the other options include the rest of Christianity?

Please explain then what the option would be that fits a great many in the Christian community?

I'm not sure here what you mean by "bend the Bible." Everyone views Scripture through some sort of lens. For many, that lens is the one created by traditional church dogmas. The church has taught that the Bible is inerrant, therefore the Bible is inerrant. No question about it. Anyone who disagrees is a lost soul, you name it. In modern biblical studies, the Bible is approached much differently. It is looked at through the lens created by a healthy skepticism for traditional teachings. Maybe it is inerrant, maybe not. Let's carefully examine matters and see. The conclusion is that the inerrancy theory is out the window. That doesn't mean the Bible is worthless, just not inerrant. Consequently, I would fault the inerrancy people as bending the Bible to suit their questionable dogmas.

 

[Extraneous]

The Orthodox Church has, for 2000 years, intentionally taught what it teaches today.

Such denial. What about Bobs recollection concerning different Popes warring against each other in the past, fighting for control? That's about the most unspiritual thing i can imagine. Not to mention, you are deluded if you think that the REAL apostles, who wrote the NT scripture, would have prayed to saints, followed a Pope, had special days of fasting that they paraded in front of others, or made Sunday a holy day. Your Church isnt stuck in the beginning where all churches should be, but instead is stuck in the dark ages. Matter of fact, if you dare to say you Church is that old then you can also take the blame for not only your church falling into apostasy, but all others all well.

 

[Extraneous]

That is not an accurate number, because that 200 million doesn't even account for all the Orthodox in Russia ALONE. Now we could use the Wikipedia article, but since the Wiki can be edited by Joe Blow Schmoe, that's not a good source.

And since the Pew Forum openly admits that multiple Protestant denominations have a problematic amount of overlap, meaning that the number of People claiming multiple denominational affiliations is high, it makes the number of Protestants, most likely, according to those who performed the study you are referring to, overblown, at the best.

I didnt use wiki. YOu are in denial, your authority is nonsense, and your praying to saints is absurd.

 

[sculleywr]

I didnt use wiki. YOu are in denial, your authority is nonsense, and your praying to saints is absurd.

Then prove it instead of making blanket accusations. You did use Wiki, because it is literally the only source that uses your numbers, based on a Pew survey that the Pew forum said was problematic.

 

[sculleywr]

Such denial. What about Bobs recollection concerning different Popes warring against each other in the past, fighting for control? That's about the most unspiritual thing i can imagine. Not to mention, you are deluded if you think that the REAL apostles, who wrote the NT scripture, would have prayed to saints, followed a Pope, had special days of fasting that they paraded in front of others, or made Sunday a holy day. Your Church isnt stuck in the beginning where all churches should be, but instead is stuck in the dark ages. Matter of fact, if you dare to say you Church is that old then you can also take the blame for not only your church falling into apostasy, but all others all well.

We don't have a Pope. So you're bringing up problems that aren't even problems for us because you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

1. Sunday was a holy day because a certain Christ decided that He was bored of being dead and destroyed death. The early Christians, and the Orthodox, where able, worshiped on EVERY day on the week.

2. Praying to saints is done in your life every time you make a prayer request. That is what praying to the saints is. It is no different.

And if the Church fell into Apostasy, then Christ is a liar and I have no reason to believe Him, because the gates of hell prevailed.