Believe the Bible - bend the Bible - deny the Bible... pick one

[Colter]

Sorry, maybe it's me but that doesn't seem to back up anything. If you would... connect the dots for me and show exactly how your explanation documents those things as fact?

Thanks for your patience with me.

There are no documents from 550,000,000 BC that I know of. There are no douments that predate Moses either preserved in the cannon. In fact the history books of the Israelites mentioned in the OT didn't survive either.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The evidence in geology is NOT consistent with the YEC faith.

That's true, just as true as Atheists views are not consistent with that of Christians...doesn't prove either view is correct.

 

[Kenny'sID]

There are no documents from 550,000,000 BC that I know of. There are no douments that predate Moses either preserved in the cannon. In fact the history books of the Israelites mentioned in the OT didn't survive either.

You are making comments and not giving me any detailed connections at all.

 

[Colter]

You are making comments and not giving me any detailed connections at all.

I assume you know the general story of Adam and Eve and can then see the points I've made.

 

[Colter]

That's true, just as true as Atheists views are not consistent with that of Christians...doesn't prove either view is correct.

I'm a person of faith who sees the same thing that Atheist see, only to me it's the evidence of the creation of life through the process of evolution. The evidence of science simply shows that the YEC story of the Hebrew writers was wrong, however I don't see that as a conspiracy, they didn't know any better. When the OT was being compiled and redacted during the Babylonian captivity they had available to them a number of creation stories and fragments of the transactions of the past.

For Bob Ryan everything is all or nothing.

 

[Isaacsname]

Your choices in the poll exclude the one that matters the most

Which one among you thinks they would know the scriptures better than Jesus himself ?

Until " that day " comes, you have faith that the Bible is the word of God, but you do not comprehend it's most powerful truths

That, my friends, is for Jesus to reveal to the world

 

[BobRyan]

YEC proponents have a faith based theory. Old earth creationist have the facts of the fossil record and the age of the earth using sound radio metric dating techniques. The evidence in geology is NOT consistent with the YEC faith.

So then you think that observable science supports the idea that "a pile of dirt - will sure-enough turn into a rabbit over time, given a sufficiently talented and large pile of dirt - and a sufficiently talented and long period of time filled with improbable just-so stories""?? Is that your faith-based claim?

As it is - you appear to already agree that such a fiction is not what we see described in Genesis 1 or in the "legal code" of Ex 20:11.

Or are you saying that such blind-faith fictions must be "believed" because of the assumptions you make about radiometrics?

 

[BobRyan]

Your choices in the poll exclude the one that matters the most

Which one among you thinks they would know the scriptures better than Jesus himself ?

Until " that day " comes, you have faith that the Bible is the word of God, but you do not comprehend it's most powerful truths

That, my friends, is for Jesus to reveal to the world

Did you name the choice that matters "most"??

 

[BobRyan]

I'm a person of faith who sees the same thing that Atheist see, only to me it's the evidence of the creation of life through the process of evolution. .

Rabbits -- coming out of piles of dirt then?

 

[BobRyan]

Which part? In Genesis we can see that the beast was already fallen, already working against Gods will before Eve decided to insert her own will. Adam and Eve are full grown, educated adults who speak the language of the beast.

Not true at all-

The serpent speaks in Genesis 3 - and in Rev 12 we are told it is Satan who is the "serpent of old" -- in Eden - in disguise as a serpent. Satan is far more capable than "beast" as it turns out. But Eve is not confronted with a vastly superior being - rather Satan presents himself to her as inferior so that she would have false-confidence - supposing she was in the driver's seat.

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3 - is evolutionism!

HE claims that by eating new food - she would "evolve" to a higher form of being.

Proof that such junk-science false-religion that opposes the Word of God has been around for a very long time. It was at the heart of the fall of mankind and the reason all mankind became doomed to the lake of fire - such that God the Son would need to come to earth to die for our sins - and anyone who believes on Him - benefits by not having to pay that 2nd death - debt of sin.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Wrong again! The story is retrospective, called serpent after the fact. In the chronology of the story the so called "beast" doesn't resemble a serpent until after God condemns it:

IN Genesis 3 the serpent starts off as a serpent - it does not turn into one "As the story progresses" -

What is more - expansion of detail as the text continues or as later writers affirm it - does not change the story - it expands our understanding of it.

This is also true in science as it turns out.

Events in Nature do not 'change' by having improved details about it - the event is 'unchanged'.

Less fiction - more science fact please.

Eve was asserting her will into the plan of saving the world that already fell.

Less fiction - more Bible fact please.

By having sex with Cain's real father she had hoped to insert her superior genes into the gene pool thus speeding up the fix. That was the sin.

Neither evolution nor the Bible provides the unique mythology and fiction you make up "on the spot" in that case.

Unless you are presenting yourself as our new "Moses" - stick with some facts please.

Science fact - all humans share the same mitochondrial EVE ancestor. Stick with actual facts please.

 

[Colter]

So then you think that observable science supports the idea that "a pile of dirt - will sure-enough turn into a rabbit over time, given a sufficiently talented and large pile of dirt - and a sufficiently talented and long period of time filled with improbable just-so stories""?? Is that your faith-based claim?

As it is - you appear to already agree that such a fiction is not what we see described in Genesis 1 or in the "legal code" of Ex 20:11.

Or are you saying that such blind-faith fictions must be "believed" because of the assumptions you make about radiometrics?

Do you even read my post????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I have never said a pile of dirt turns into a rabbit, I have said celestial beings planted the primitive life forms in shallow briny seas (that we have evidence of in the fossil record), Life forms that evolved into life as me know it.

 

[Colter]

Not true at all-

The serpent speaks in Genesis 3 - and in Rev 12 we are told it is Satan who is the "serpent of old" -- in Eden - in disguise as a serpent. Satan is far more capable than "beast" as it turns out. But Eve is not confronted with a vastly superior being - rather Satan presents himself to her as inferior so that she would have false-confidence - supposing she was in the driver's seat.

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3 - is evolutionism!

HE claims that by eating new food - she would "evolve" to a higher form of being.

Proof that such junk-science false-religion that opposes the Word of God has been around for a very long time. It was at the heart of the fall of mankind and the reason all mankind became doomed to the lake of fire - such that God the Son would need to come to earth to die for our sins - and anyone who believes on Him - benefits by not having to pay that 2nd death - debt of sin.

Thanks for bringing that up.



IN Genesis 3 the serpent starts off as a serpent - it does not turn into one "As the story progresses" -

What is more - expansion of detail as the text continues or as later writers affirm it - does not change the story - it expands our understanding of it.

This is also true in science as it turns out.

Events in Nature do not 'change' by having improved details about it - the event is 'unchanged'.

Less fiction - more science fact please.



Less fiction - more Bible fact please.



Neither evolution nor the Bible provides the unique mythology and fiction you make up "on the spot" in that case.

Unless you are presenting yourself as our new "Moses" - stick with some facts please.

Science fact - all humans share the same mitochondrial EVE ancestor. Stick with actual facts please.

Actually the devil is referred to by many synonyms. Jesus himself employed the term "serpent" to designate tricky and smart.

Rev 12 actually calls the devil a dragon;

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,



......."Science fact - all humans share the same mitochondrial EVE ancestor".....38,000 years ago, but you didn't include that.


And nowhere in Genesis does the devil teach evolution.

 

[Colter]

Rabbits -- coming out of piles of dirt then?

No, thats a conclusion that you invented. Life comes from Life.

 

[Extraneous]

For what?

Relax, you only have control over yourself. As to what's happening with some Churches, only expect it to get worse, it's a sign of the times, a fulfillment of prophecy and it can't be stopped.

That's exactly what i'm talking about doing. Controlling myself and staying away from everything else. If CF represents the Church collective, imagine what it sounds like. You have Mr RC standing over here in the corner preaching Catholicism, and Mr Eastern Orthodox standing in another preaching his doctrine, Mr Anglican over there, Mr New age science, Mr Lutheran, Mr Republican, Mr Democrat, Mr Socialist and Mr Capitalist, Mr America and Mr Europe, Mr Presbyterian, Mr MJ, Mr SDA, Mr Baptist, Mr Pentecostal, and all their little reformed sub division children as well, all speaking different languages. I say let it be MR Jesus alone who speaks, let these other guys sit down and listen.

 

[Isaacsname]

Did you name the choice that matters "most"??

Yes, I did

What are you going to do when the teacher comes teaching ?

Are you going to stand at the head of the class and proclaim you no longer need to be taught ?

I sense apostasy in your future with that attitude

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I did

What are you going to do when the teacher comes teaching ?

Are you going to stand at the head of the class and proclaim you no longer need to be taught ?

What part of the list of options or the OP or Mark 7:6-13 is saying "we no longer need to be taught"?? (Or are you talking about the "deny the Bible" and the "Bend the Bible" options in that list?)

 

[BobRyan]

That's exactly what i'm talking about doing. Controlling myself and staying away from everything else. If CF represents the Church collective, imagine what it sounds like. You have Mr RC standing over here in the corner preaching Catholicism, and Mr Eastern Orthodox standing in another preaching his doctrine, Mr Anglican over there, Mr New age science, Mr Lutheran, Mr Republican, Mr Democrat, Mr Socialist and Mr Capitalist, Mr America and Mr Europe, Mr Presbyterian, Mr MJ, Mr SDA, Mr Baptist, Mr Pentecostal, and all their little reformed sub division children as well, all speaking different languages. I say let it be MR Jesus alone who speaks, let these other guys sit down and listen.

We all suffer through that same conflict-of-doctrine noise on every thread. Welcome to the club.

In fact in the dark ages you have "Catholic popes" each raising their own papal armies and fighting other Catholic popes - who also had raised up papal armies. (No protestants in that scenario).

And the Protestants start out not as "Protestants" but as "protesting Catholic scholars and priests" protesting the errors they find in their own Magisterium.

Even the Christian church in Acts 2 - is not out to "Start a new religion" but rather is reforming and witnessing to its current Magisterium - the Jewish church.

What is unchanged in all that - is the Bible - it is the baseline document to be held as the highest authority - Paul says that Apostles and Angels are to be "accursed" if they go against it - in Gal 1:6-9.

The reason for "Sola Scriptura" threads and for threads like this one - is to point to the need to "not bend the Bible to fit the bias of church dogma - or popular sentiment in a secular society" -- to quote myself.

The challenge then is to read the Bible and be able to state/affirm/defend what it says rather than simply repeat whatever one has been told by his/her magisterium.

IF your church magisterium agrees with what you find in the Bible - fine with me. If it differs then also fine - let us know.

Here is a great example post --
2 minutes ago #118

Someone appears to be making something up but they do not claim (apparently) that the Bible actually says whatever they happen to make up.

 

[BobRyan]

No, thats a conclusion that you invented. Life comes from Life.

So then you think that observable science supports the idea that "a single celled animal (Amoeba) - will sure-enough turn into a horse over time, given a sufficiently talented amoeba - and a sufficiently talented and long period of time filled with improbable just-so stories""?? Is that your faith-based claim?

I have said celestial beings planted the primitive life forms in shallow briny seas .

Then is it also your "faith alone" claim that Genesis 1 says that or that Exodus 20:11 "legal code" says that??

Or do you simply make that up and declare that the Bible writers did not know what you know - but were trying to say whatever you claim as best they could?

 

[BobRyan]

Which part? In Genesis we can see that the beast was already fallen, already working against Gods will before Eve decided to insert her own will. Adam and Eve are full grown, educated adults who speak the language of the beast.

Not true at all-

The serpent speaks in Genesis 3 - and in Rev 12 we are told it is Satan who is the "serpent of old" -- in Eden - in disguise as a serpent. Satan is far more capable than "beast" as it turns out. But Eve is not confronted with a vastly superior being - rather Satan presents himself to her as inferior so that she would have false-confidence - supposing she was in the driver's seat.

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3 - is evolutionism!

HE claims that by eating new food - she would "evolve" to a higher form of being.

Proof that such junk-science false-religion that opposes the Word of God has been around for a very long time. It was at the heart of the fall of mankind and the reason all mankind became doomed to the lake of fire - such that God the Son would need to come to earth to die for our sins - and anyone who believes on Him - benefits by not having to pay that 2nd death - debt of sin.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Wrong again! The story is retrospective, called serpent after the fact. In the chronology of the story the so called "beast" doesn't resemble a serpent until after God condemns it:

IN Genesis 3 the serpent starts off as a serpent - it does not turn into one "As the story progresses" -

What is more - expansion of detail as the text continues or as later writers affirm it - does not change the story - it expands our understanding of it.

This is also true in science as it turns out.

Events in Nature do not 'change' by having improved details about it - the event is 'unchanged'.

Less fiction - more science fact please.

Eve was asserting her will into the plan of saving the world that already fell.

Less fiction - more Bible fact please.

By having sex with Cain's real father she had hoped to insert her superior genes into the gene pool thus speeding up the fix. That was the sin.

Neither evolution nor the Bible provides the unique mythology and fiction you make up "on the spot" in that case.

Unless you are presenting yourself as our new "Moses" - stick with some facts please.

Science fact - all humans share the same mitochondrial EVE ancestor. Stick with actual facts please.

Actually the devil is referred to by many synonyms.

True - but in Genesis 3 he actually appears in the form of a serpent - speaks to Eve in her language - deceives her into believing four things.

1. God's Word cannot be trusted.
2. She can "evolve" to a higher life form if she follows the devil's idea.
3. Rebellion against the actual Word of God - has no downside.
4. God is not seeking her best interest.

Rev 12 says the devil is "that serpent of old".

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm a person of faith who sees the same thing that Atheist see, only to me it's the evidence of the creation of life through the process of evolution. The evidence of science simply shows that the YEC story of the Hebrew writers was wrong, however I don't see that as a conspiracy, they didn't know any better. When the OT was being compiled and redacted during the Babylonian captivity they had available to them a number of creation stories and fragments of the transactions of the past.

For Bob Ryan everything is all or nothing.

How do we know who you are, really.

You could be anyone. I've never read one of your posts before and I have been here on CF for a long time and participated in a lot of threads, so where have you been on here?

I'm not trying to insult you. I really want to know