Believe the Bible - bend the Bible - deny the Bible... pick one

[Kenny'sID]

How does this relate to the topic?

It falls under the category of "stuff happens".

 

[BobRyan]

I voted option 1.

1. Believe the Bible as written

If one doesn't believe the Bible as written, then how can one believe in YAHWEH and His SON?
Our GOD is an awsome GOD indeed!


.

Indeed -- we might as well call the "creationist" a "virgin-birth-ist" a "literal resurrection-ist" a "bodily-ascension-of-Christ-ist" a "literal fall of mankind-ist" - a "literal miracles in the Bible - ist" - a "literal second-coming-ist" a "literal-lake-of-fire-ist".

There is "a reason" that the BIBLE itself STARTs with - God's 7 day creation week.

There is "a reason" that the GOSPEL of John STARTS with Christ "AS CREATOR"

There is "a reason" that Rev 14:6-7 says the "EVERLASTING GOSPEL" that is preached to the "whole world" includes the worship of God - as Creator AND the end-time hour of judgment that has come.

 

[BobRyan]

In keeping with that idea - the 2nd post on this thread reminds us of this

===============================
The T.E. quote above is not the only one who claims that his Christianity was being set aside by belief in the doctrine on origins found in evolution -

Darwin also claimed that faith in evolutionism destroyed Christianity for him - ...

-- Darwinism leads to atheism according to a number of prominent scientists.

When I said in the OP that "rejecting Romans1 is a 'distinctively atheist' position" - I refer to this

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse


Darwinism's ability to destroy christian faith in those that accept it (given a long enough period of time) - is something that Christians 'should not notice' say 'some' in the Christian community. Others argue it should not be discussed so it can continue its work without detection.


"Among leading scientists in the field of evolution, 87% deny existence of God, 88% disbelieve in life after death, and 90% reject idea that evolution is directed Toward an “ultimate purpose.” 12 "
from http://www.kmlhs.org/UserFiles/Serv...e/FACULTY_FILES/Bartelt/losingfaith020214.pdf


What say you?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Forgive me, im struggling with things right now. I cant seem to agree with all this, and i dont think i will ever be able to fit in with it. Part of me is hurt, another confused, and yet another a little angry. Forgive me, i dont belong in any forum, congregation, or fellowship. Im a loner i guess. Thats my way, because nothing else works.

For what?

Relax, you only have control over yourself. As to what's happening with some Churches, only expect it to get worse, it's a sign of the times, a fulfillment of prophecy and it can't be stopped.

 

[Colter]

It would be better to reform the Bible, take it with the understanding that anything touched by human hands can hardly be regarded as infallible. But while religion sees the sins of others with sharp clarity, it's not so good at seeing it's own flaws.

 

[Colter]

Adam and Eve incarnate on a world that had previously evolved after created life was planted on it. They were much older than previously known. The 6 day creation story became confused with Adam and Eve's first 6 days on earth. On the 7th they rested.

 

[Colter]

In keeping with that idea - the 2nd post on this thread reminds us of this

===============================
The T.E. quote above is not the only one who claims that his Christianity was being set aside by belief in the doctrine on origins found in evolution -

Darwin also claimed that faith in evolutionism destroyed Christianity for him - ...

-- Darwinism leads to atheism according to a number of prominent scientists.

When I said in the OP that "rejecting Romans1 is a 'distinctively atheist' position" - I refer to this

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse


Darwinism's ability to destroy christian faith in those that accept it (given a long enough period of time) - is something that Christians 'should not notice' say 'some' in the Christian community. Others argue it should not be discussed so it can continue its work without detection.


"Among leading scientists in the field of evolution, 87% deny existence of God, 88% disbelieve in life after death, and 90% reject idea that evolution is directed Toward an “ultimate purpose.” 12 "
from http://www.kmlhs.org/UserFiles/Serv...e/FACULTY_FILES/Bartelt/losingfaith020214.pdf


What say you?

The only thing science destroys is where religion has it wrong.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The only thing science destroys is where religion has it wrong.

Science destroys nothing, however, people use that among other things to make the attempt.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Adam and Eve incarnate on a world that had previously evolved after created life was planted on it. They were much older than previously known. The 6 day creation story became confused with Adam and Eve's first 6 days on earth. On the 7th they rested.

Do you have any type of documentation to back that up?

 

[Colter]

Do you have any type of documentation to back that up?

Which part? In Genesis we can see that the beast was already fallen, already working against Gods will before Eve decided to insert her own will. Adam and Eve are full grown, educated adults who speak the language of the beast. Cain fears people out in the world away from his parents tribe.

We know the earth and life on it is quite old so Adam and Eve being a young earth story means they arrived on a populated earth.

 

[BobRyan]

The only thing science destroys is where religion has it wrong.

Science destroys nothing -- junk-science destroys common sense and reason according to atheist evolutionists such as Collin Patterson.

Collin Patterson (atheist and diehard evolutionist to the day he died in 1998) - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history speaking at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 - said:

Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians

"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying):'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...

"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."

========================

A great example of what scientists do NOT say about the study of Gravity.

And yet... at no loss for large levels of glossing over details and equivocation - we could just "repeat" the suggestion for "gravitationism" as do some.

 

[BobRyan]

Which part? In Genesis we can see that the beast was already fallen, already working against Gods will before Eve decided to insert her own will. Adam and Eve are full grown, educated adults who speak the language of the beast.

Not true at all-

The serpent speaks in Genesis 3 - and in Rev 12 we are told it is Satan who is the "serpent of old" -- in Eden - in disguise as a serpent. Satan is far more capable than "beast" as it turns out. But Eve is not confronted with a vastly superior being - rather Satan presents himself to her as inferior so that she would have false-confidence - supposing she was in the driver's seat.

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3 - is evolutionism!

HE claims that by eating new food - she would "evolve" to a higher form of being.

Proof that such junk-science false-religion that opposes the Word of God has been around for a very long time. It was at the heart of the fall of mankind and the reason all mankind became doomed to the lake of fire - such that God the Son would need to come to earth to die for our sins - and anyone who believes on Him - benefits by not having to pay that 2nd death - debt of sin.

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[BobRyan]

Adam and Eve incarnate on a world that had previously evolved after created life was planted on it.

You "quote you" well. By contrast the Bible denies all of what you have said.

As Christians - we prefer "the Bible" rather than the "stories of man".

They were much older than previously known. The 6 day creation story became confused with Adam and Eve's first 6 days on earth. On the 7th they rested.

By contrast to "you quoting you" the Bible says that they rested on their first full day of life - the 7th day of creation week.

And what is more Ex 20:11 has that 7 day creation week - in the form of "legal code" spoken by God Himself at Sinai.

 

[BobRyan]

It would be better to reform the Bible

But not for Christians. Atheists and agnostics might like to re-write the Bible - but Christians rely on the Bible and the Gospel it declares - that includes the origin of mankind and the fall of mankind - as the foundation context for the Gospel of salvation.


I will grant you this - your belief in the religion of evolutionism leads you to reject the Bible as it is written -- and it is a logical step in that sense - as even Darwin admits.

 

[Hieronymus]

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3

Don't forget Genesis 3:22 though..

 

[Hieronymus]

Don't forget Genesis 3:22 though..

And i can't help thinking there COULD BE a connection between a bigger head with more brains and the increased birth pains...

 

[Colter]

Not true at all-

The serpent speaks in Genesis 3 - and in Rev 12 we are told it is Satan who is the "serpent of old" -- in Eden - in disguise as a serpent. Satan is far more capable than "beast" as it turns out. But Eve is not confronted with a vastly superior being - rather Satan presents himself to her as inferior so that she would have false-confidence - supposing she was in the driver's seat.

But notice that what the devil promises Eve in Genesis 3 - is evolutionism!

HE claims that by eating new food - she would "evolve" to a higher form of being.

Proof that such junk-science false-religion that opposes the Word of God has been around for a very long time. It was at the heart of the fall of mankind and the reason all mankind became doomed to the lake of fire - such that God the Son would need to come to earth to die for our sins - and anyone who believes on Him - benefits by not having to pay that 2nd death - debt of sin.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Wrong again! The story is retrospective, called serpent after the fact. In the chronology of the story the so called "beast" doesn't resemble a serpent until after God condemns it:


So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.


Eve was asserting her will into the plan of saving the world that already fell. By having sex with Cain's real father she had hoped to insert her superior genes into the gene pool thus speeding up the fix. That was the sin.



To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.


Note: sub-Saharan cultures that do not have the genes of Eve don't suffer the kind of childbearing pains that northern cultures do.

 

[Thursday]

Then centuries later - the RCC came into existence.

This is a slander and a lie.

You have been shown the evidence before but refuse to accept it because it contradicts your man made dogma.

Jesus started one Church. This Church still exists.

Tell me, which Church is Ignatius, a disciple of the apostle John, referring to here?

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape; but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” - 107 AD (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr; Letter to the Smyrneans § 8)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Which part? In Genesis we can see that the beast was already fallen, already working against Gods will before Eve decided to insert her own will. Adam and Eve are full grown, educated adults who speak the language of the beast. Cain fears people out in the world away from his parents tribe.

We know the earth and life on it is quite old so Adam and Eve being a young earth story means they arrived on a populated earth.

Sorry, maybe it's me but that doesn't seem to back up anything. If you would... connect the dots for me and show exactly how your explanation documents those things as fact?

Thanks for your patience with me.

 

[Colter]

YEC proponents have a faith based theory. Old earth creationist have the facts of the fossil record and the age of the earth using sound radio metric dating techniques. The evidence in geology is NOT consistent with the YEC faith.