What is the greatest evidence against the theory of evolution...?

[ClothedInGrace]

What are you talking about? Evolution does not say that a species changes into something "completely different". And you should not use nonsensical terms. Creationists cannot even define "kind". Yes, birds will always be birds, but they will also always be dinosaurs. And people will also always be people, but they will also always be apes. Here is a very helpful article on Clades, it should help you with understanding evolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clade

You believe that all life came from a common ancestor, so where do all of these species come from? What makes us different from a Chimp? We evolved differently from a common ancestor as you say, yes? Well, if that common ancestor was some sort of human/chimp, then how did we evolve to become human? Isn't that changing species? Where do all of these species come from? That mutated into what they are, correct?

 

[Loudmouth]

Well, they are hairy, cannot handle a tea party and suck their own *^*&^

What does that have to do with being evolved or not?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Are you sure? The God of the Old Testament especially is portrayed as a rather evil being in the Bible. And to take Genesis literally you have to believe in a God that lies. Add that to the hundreds of self contradictions, great and small, and the countless failed prophesies and the Bible is just a hot mess.

That's your faith.

 

[46AND2]

You can observe that ERVs are inherited,

That observation is made in exactly the same way in human vs. human, as it is in human vs. chimp. We look at the genomes, and notice that they are the same viruses in the same location.

 

[Patmos]

What does that have to do with being evolved or not?

Well, humans cannot!

 

[ClothedInGrace]

That observation is made in exactly the same way in human vs. human, as it is in human vs. chimp. We look at the genomes, and notice that they are the same viruses in the same location.

You still cannot observe that Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. The fact we have similar ERVs doesn't prove that.

 

[Loudmouth]

You believe that all life came from a common ancestor, so where do all of these species come from? What makes us different from a Chimp?

The genetic differences between our species is what makes us different. Thought that was obvious.

We evolved differently from a common ancestor as you say, yes? Well, if that common ancestor was some sort of human/chimp, then how did we evolve to become human?

It was due to the mutations that happened in our lineage, and how the were either selected for or against.

Isn't that changing species? Where do all of these species come from? That mutated into what they are, correct?

The separation of species through time is completely arbitrary. It's like asking for the millisecond during one's lifetime when someone goes from being short to tall.

 

[Loudmouth]

You still cannot observe that Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. The fact we have similar ERVs doesn't prove that.

It does prove it, beyond any reasonable doubt.

"Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/18/10254.full

It is like finding 200,000 of the defendant's fingerprints at the crime scene.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

It does prove it, beyond any reasonable doubt.

"Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/18/10254.full

It is like finding 200,000 of the defendant's fingerprints at the crime scene.

Should I just believe everything you tell me? I'm sure there are creationist scientists who look at the genome and see something completely different. I can make up my own mind, and I simply see the evolutionary model as completely and utterly false and irrational.

 

[Hieronymus]

It does prove it, beyond any reasonable doubt.

No, our doubts are reasonable.
it's just the naturalistic interpretation of the same evidence both sides have at their disposal.

"Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/18/10254.full

It is like finding 200,000 of the defendant's fingerprints at the crime scene.

Fingerprints of God perhaps?

 

[Chris B]

Our eyes were created perfect, but ever since sin we have had to deal with death and decay. But, you don't believe that, and there is nothing I can do to prove to you it is the case.

There is definitely nothing you can do to prove case of perfect eyes in the past,
as there is not the slightest evidence to produce in support of it.

So why should I believe it?

We have found dinosaur fossils with signs of arthritic disease, so you'd have to go back before them to even posit a "perfect world."
And having giant rocks drop out of the sky and suddenly rearrange the scenery is difficult to square with any "perfect world" that has lifeforms in it.

I acknowledge the solidity and conviction of your belief, but that of itself is little ground for the belief being true.
Have you never met someone of equally sure conviction but with beliefs different to yours?
Who's right: the person with the strongest convictions?
Or do both meet, clash, and go away convinced that the other person is fundamentally mistaken?

 

[46AND2]

You still cannot observe that Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. The fact we have similar ERVs doesn't prove that.

We don't just have similar ERVs. We have the SAME ERVs, in the SAME locations of our genome. You have stated that the reason we share those ERVs with other humans is because of inheritance. Why is it different when comparing humans and chimps?

 

[Loudmouth]

Should I just believe everything you tell me?

I just quoted a paper written by real geneticists in a real scientific journal.

Also, what are you saying I am lying about?

I'm sure there are creationist scientists who look at the genome and see something completely different.

Then show us what they see, and how their interpretation is supported by evidence.

I can make up my own mind, and I simply see the evolutionary model as completely and utterly false and irrational.

You can choose to deny evidence, logic, and reason. That is true.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

We don't just have similar ERVs. We have the SAME ERVs, in the SAME locations of our genome. You have stated that the reason we share those ERVs with other humans is because of inheritance. Why is it different when comparing humans and chimps?

Because humans come from humans who come from humans... I don't believe Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. I'm sorry, I just don't.

 

[Loudmouth]

No, our doubts are reasonable.

How are they reasonable?

it's just the naturalistic interpretation of the same evidence both sides have at their disposal.Fingerprints of God perhaps?

Are you saying that God plants fingerprints and DNA at crime scenes?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You believe that all life came from a common ancestor, so where do all of these species come from? What makes us different from a Chimp? We evolved differently from a common ancestor as you say, yes? Well, if that common ancestor was some sort of human/chimp, then how did we evolve to become human? Isn't that changing species? Where do all of these species come from? That mutated into what they are, correct?

Yes, species change, that is a given. We can observe it in action today even. The ancestor that we share with a chimp you would definitely call an ape. You would probably call Australopithecus and "ape". The problem is that creationists cannot draw a consistent line between man and other apes. At some point in our descent they will say "This is a man, all the rest were apes". The only problem is that different creationists put the line at different species. But changing species is not "changing kinds" We are still primates, will always be primates.

 

[Loudmouth]

Because humans come from humans who come from humans... I don't believe Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. I'm sorry, I just don't.

Doesn't change the fact that the evidence supports common ancestry. You haven't been able to refute any of that evidence.

You can certainly choose to ignore the evidence. Your choice.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Doesn't change the fact that the evidence supports common ancestry. You haven't been able to refute any of that evidence.

You can certainly choose to ignore the evidence. Your choice.

I won't ignore the facts, but I will ignore your conclusions.

 

[46AND2]

Because humans come from humans who come from humans... I don't believe Chimps and Humans evolved from a common ancestor. I'm sorry, I just don't.

Don't worry, scientists can't think of a good reason other than inheritance, either.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Don't worry, scientists can't think of a good reason other than inheritance, either.

Well, I guess I should just believe inheritance is the answer then? Sorry, I won't.