Believe the Bible - bend the Bible - deny the Bible... pick one

[Extraneous]

One can only meditate on the Bible if one first believes the Bible as written.

I do believe it as its written.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The text says "the creation of the world" -- nature.
The text says "the things that have been made" -- nature
The text says that even the ungodly - pagans of Romans 1 - saw this "clearly" in nature... 'the things that have been made' and thus were "without excuse".

What is interesting is that these are not "pagans with a bible" in Romans 1-- Paul is talking about the force of the truth that is apparent to those without a Bible at all - and it is via 'the things that have been made' and "what they see".

No. It says "for God made it EVIDENT to them... His power being clearly seen...."

You do not find nature and therefore creation fascinating?

 

[ToBeLoved]

CREATION = NATURE = THE NATURAL WORLD

But I think the verse is about people seeing THE POWER OF GOD and that their IS a God through the wonders of nature.

Because that is not some Big Bang thing thrown together by an omeba.

UPDATE: I believe the Bible as it is written.

 

[sculleywr]

Believe the Bible as it was written. For example, I trust James 2 to be completely and totally inspired by God, and not an epistle of straw, as certain who would think that asking if faith alone could save a man doesn't mean he's talking about faith's relationship to salvation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I voted option 1.

1. Believe the Bible as written

If one doesn't believe the Bible as written, then how can one believe in YAHWEH and His SON?
Our GOD is an awsome GOD indeed!

Isa 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Matthew 17:5
Still of-Him speaking, behold! a luminous cloud over shadows them.
And behold! a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is the Son of Me, the Beloved One in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!".

Revelation 2:18
And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira, write!
Now this is saying the Son of YAHWEH, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.
23 And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death.
And shall be knowing all the Assemblies that I am the One searching /reins/kidneys/nefrouV <3510> and hearts
And I shall be giving to Ye each according to the works of Ye.
[Jeremiah 17:10]

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev46.htm

The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches, although it is interesting to note that the church there is the smallest of the seven, and the city of Thyatira is the smallest of the seven cities.

“These things saith the Son of God, who hath His eyes like unto a flame of fire, and His feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first...............


.

 

[Julie.S]

One can only meditate on the Bible if one first believes the Bible as written.

It's hard to read and understand something when you are born with something that actually makes that hard to do. Not everyone can read or understand like everyone else can. A lot of people like me do our best or try very hard.

 

[sculleywr]

It's hard to read and understand something when you are born with something that actually makes that hard to do. Not everyone can read or understand like everyone else can. A lot of people like me do our best or try very hard.

Which is why we need the Church. We need the Church to guide us and to explain the portions of Scripture that we don't.

 

[Julie.S]

Which is why we need the Church. We need the Church to guide us and to explain the portions of Scripture that we don't.

I'm Dyslexic and that does not include just reading and writing. I have problems with a few other things. Just because you say something does not mean someone will understand. I know that may be hard to understand for some people but it happens.

If someone keeps going on and on I tend to get lost sometimes. It's not all my fault as I do try to understand. I'm not stupid I just learn differently.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Which is why we need the Church.
We need the Church to guide us and to explain the portions of Scripture that we don't.

We can find plenty of those in the yellow pages...........

........................................

..............

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-one-true-church.7730420/
The One True Church

sunlover1 said: ↑
I received a bundle wrapped in brown paper and strapping tape.
It contained a booklet called
"The One True Church and The Church Or The Bible, by Fr. Arnold Damen, S.J.
With a picture on the front of ? perhaps Fr.Damen?


Also, this
Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
There were 4 other items of literature as well.

But i was concerned about the above (havent read the booklet about the
one true church and the church or the bible, but those will probably be
of concern as well yikes...)

I'd like to hear the truth
Whoever left me this obviously is concerned about my salvation.

Is this real?
Thanks

 

[sculleywr]

I'm Dyslexic and that does not include just reading and writing. I have problems with a few other things. Just because you say something does not mean someone will understand. I know that may be hard to understand for some people but it happens.

If someone keeps going on and on I tend to get lost sometimes. It's not all my fault as I do try to understand. I'm not stupid I just learn differently.

Actually, it is something that I live with, not for myself. My beautiful and amazing girlfriend is dyslexic. I can't remember the specific type of dyslexia, but I do remember helping her with learning a lot of things. As a tutor for two colleges, I helped her in my free time (off the clock, because I'm not going to make her pay me for services) with math and have helped her in her catechumenate as she asks questions and probes into topics that, in some cases, I had either taken for granted, or hadn't thought of in that way.

It has long been the practice of the Orthodox Church to focus on one-to-one spiritual education, especially with catechumens. For one, each person has a different learning style. Malia is highly visual, so I try, as much as possible, to paint a picture with everything. Because, for her, everything is literally connected to everything else, I have to show where this teaching we discuss fits in with all the others. And she is EXTREMELY thorough. Just on the doctrine of salvation, she has given literally two years of questions. And they are extremely welcome.

A person can struggle for years with one teaching, or pick them up like the snap of a finger. I happen to be incredibly good at processing tons of information. I'm an academic at heart. But I am also a tutor. While classroom teachers generalize their lessons to reach as many as they can, it's always been my job to be the caulk that fills in the gaps so that people don't fall through. I have to personalize, otherwise I wouldn't be good at my job. And that is my strength. I struggle in places that Malia helps me with. I am currently seeing a psychiatrist twice a month (maybe more in the coming months) for depression, anxiety, and to add a few more tools to my anger management toolbox.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Malia actually blew me away a few months ago by taking the concept of salvation and transforming it for me, which was something I needed because I can get stuck sometimes on how to explain something that is so absurdly conceptual to someone who thinks in concrete, visible ways. Add to that that she is insanely good with children, a gifted interpreter, a creativeand talented artist, and you can find many ways she can be great without being the academic. She doesn't need to be the academic, and neither do you.

To be honest, a person does not need to grasp the finer points of theology to be an Orthodox Christian. The Creed and a few confessions, all found in our Baptismal liturgy, are all that are really needed, which isn't a whole lot. The Church offers something for every person. For those like me that love to research, we have 2000 years of theological discourses and sermons and books and more. For those who love art, we have at least two dozen different Iconographic styles, as well as non-Iconographic arts (just my amateur look at that). For the philanthropist, there is the OCMC and the OCCF, which help any number of people. For the musician, several different styles of music, though if you're looking for modern styles, you might want to look outside of America, because the American churches have lagged behind outside of services. You're not going to find a rock service in an Orthodox Church, but there are some small groups that do small showings in the coffee hours with different styles.

The point I am getting at with my giant wall of text is this: the Church is for all. We aren't perfect. We are a hospital for the sin-sick. And dyslexia is not a loss of IQ any more than Depression or Anxiety disorders are simply the blues. We aren't going to try and cure you. We won't treat you like an invalid. If you end up in my parish (assuming I'm able to not be homebound by illness one day), I hope you have the opportunity to say hi.

Anywho. I'm praying for you if you have questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Julie.S]

Actually, it is something that I live with, not for myself. My beautiful and amazing girlfriend is dyslexic. I can't remember the specific type of dyslexia, but I do remember helping her with learning a lot of things. As a tutor for two colleges, I helped her in my free time (off the clock, because I'm not going to make her pay me for services) with math and have helped her in her catechumenate as she asks questions and probes into topics that, in some cases, I had either taken for granted, or hadn't thought of in that way.

It has long been the practice of the Orthodox Church to focus on one-to-one spiritual education, especially with catechumens. For one, each person has a different learning style. Malia is highly visual, so I try, as much as possible, to paint a picture with everything. Because, for her, everything is literally connected to everything else, I have to show where this teaching we discuss fits in with all the others. And she is EXTREMELY thorough. Just on the doctrine of salvation, she has given literally two years of questions. And they are extremely welcome.

A person can struggle for years with one teaching, or pick them up like the snap of a finger. I happen to be incredibly good at processing tons of information. I'm an academic at heart. But I am also a tutor. While classroom teachers generalize their lessons to reach as many as they can, it's always been my job to be the caulk that fills in the gaps so that people don't fall through. I have to personalize, otherwise I wouldn't be good at my job. And that is my strength. I struggle in places that Malia helps me with. I am currently seeing a psychiatrist twice a month (maybe more in the coming months) for depression, anxiety, and to add a few more tools to my anger management toolbox.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Malia actually blew me away a few months ago by taking the concept of salvation and transforming it for me, which was something I needed because I can get stuck sometimes on how to explain something that is so absurdly conceptual to someone who thinks in concrete, visible ways. Add to that that she is insanely good with children, a gifted interpreter, a creativeand talented artist, and you can find many ways she can be great without being the academic. She doesn't need to be the academic, and neither do you.

To be honest, a person does not need to grasp the finer points of theology to be an Orthodox Christian. The Creed and a few confessions, all found in our Baptismal liturgy, are all that are really needed, which isn't a whole lot. The Church offers something for every person. For those like me that love to research, we have 2000 years of theological discourses and sermons and books and more. For those who love art, we have at least two dozen different Iconographic styles, as well as non-Iconographic arts (just my amateur look at that). For the philanthropist, there is the OCMC and the OCCF, which help any number of people. For the musician, several different styles of music, though if you're looking for modern styles, you might want to look outside of America, because the American churches have lagged behind outside of services. You're not going to find a rock service in an Orthodox Church, but there are some small groups that do small showings in the coffee hours with different styles.

The point I am getting at with my giant wall of text is this: the Church is for all. We aren't perfect. We are a hospital for the sin-sick. And dyslexia is not a loss of IQ any more than Depression or Anxiety disorders are simply the blues. We aren't going to try and cure you. We won't treat you like an invalid. If you end up in my parish (assuming I'm able to not be homebound by illness one day), I hope you have the opportunity to say hi.

Anywho. I'm praying for you if you have questions, feel free to PM me.

I know its not based on IQ thanks muchly.

I don't know if I will be seeing you though I would not mind I guess you seem nice. I'm not Orthodox and neither is anyone in my family that I know of I don't hate other denominations though that's just mean spirited to me and not right.

I don't know if I want to stay Christian or not either. I'm on the fence and I'm not unhappy about it to be honest. I have life things to attend to then I will worry about that.

 

[Sundown]

I do believe it as its written.

Live the bible and you will demonstrate that you believe the word of God without denying it or bending it.

 

[tickingclocker]

....The point I am getting at with my giant wall of text is this: the Church is for all. We aren't perfect. We are a hospital for the sin-sick....

Thank you for glorifying God! Well done! I understood and took greater heart more in your one post than I have in all the others. God reveals Himself to the willing. HE chooses the method and means. Nobody else. Because He alone holds the key to opening every heart. If we consciously put our hand over the keyhole, forget ever seeing nature or anything else "of God" until Judgment Day. He will never violate one's keyhole by forcing His key. However, the heavens will continue to declare His glory to all. (How can it not?) Yet there is a well-defined distinction between rejecting the concept of God by conscious choice, and remaining unaware He is who He is. Not a good idea to mesh the two in any argument for or against anything.

I know I should address the post and not the poster, but reading through your posts in attempting to discover the actual point you are trying to make, it sounds more like an agenda being pushed instead of edification or spiritual unity. When inserting your assumptions for what God thinks, this always becomes a giant red flag to me, too. Constantly inserting terms like "legal code" is another warning. (No one has unwisely jumped on it so far, and I'm not going to either.) Three strikes triggers the prayer in me. Learning from long experience, the more convoluted or overblown their defense of their assumptions, the more suspicious one tend to grow of their end point (clue). Just a friendly caution to you, neighbor--that people do not always remain unaware. May God bless you with His presence in a deeper way.

 

[BobRyan]

The text says "the creation of the world" -- nature.
The text says "the things that have been made" -- nature
The text says that even the ungodly - pagans of Romans 1 - saw this "clearly" in nature... 'the things that have been made' and thus were "without excuse".

No.

yes.


What is interesting is that these are not "pagans with a bible" in Romans 1-- Paul is talking about the force of the truth that is apparent to those without a Bible at all - and it is via 'the things that have been made' and "what they see".

It says "for God made it EVIDENT to them... His power being clearly seen...."

You do not find nature and therefore creation fascinating?

which you quote leaving out -- 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse

He made it evident to those without a Bible by making it "clearly seen ...in the the things that have been made" which is observable in-nature "intelligent design+" since the Romans 1 argument goes beyond ID.


Here is a great example where "observations in nature" merely affirm our belief in the Bible.

"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

(the force of the truth - from the pen of an atheist and diehard evolutionist - not at all a Christian. A Christian would say it - with a great deal more earnest and sincerity in the force of that truth.)

Romans 1 -
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse

Acceptance of real science such as observable biology (as we see in this case) and physics, chemistry, mathematics etc - have strong Bible affirming results as we see in this case.

 

[BobRyan]

I know I should address the post and not the poster, but reading through your posts in attempting to discover the actual point you are trying to make, it sounds more like an agenda being pushed instead of edification or spiritual unity. When inserting your assumptions for what God thinks, this always becomes a giant red flag to me, too. Constantly inserting terms like "legal code" is another warning. .

A. you are correct that a mere fluff 'ad hominem' response has no real contribution to the subject.
B. the "legal code" point is that the text cannot be "wrenched into poetry, symbolism, mythology" in Ex 20:11 the way so many are anxious to do in Genesis 1. It simply "removes that Bible-denying option".

 

[Kenny'sID]

I agree with the basic point of the threads author, and it is a very important point.

Hope OP will allow me to branch from their post and somewhat from topic....

People will not only see what they want to see for reasons the OP mentions, they use several other tactics on themselves and others to style their own view of the Bible and how they style it all depends on the individuals personal agenda/what they want to see and why they want to see it as they do.

Then some have the agenda to see the Bible for just what it is. For them I recommend, as a newb they first trust what they see in the bible and how they understand it, even if some parts aren't completely clear. Find enough that is clear to us and the unclear may eventually clear itself up. Like seeing a brilliant/bright light when coming out of the darkness, sometimes our eyes need to open slowly.

Listen to others but don't depend solely in one or a few persons views of the Bible, take many views into consideration but mainly the Bible itself. The net or even right here or places like this are a great place to get those views....Seek and ye shall find. Don't buy what you hear because it makes life easier but at the same time don't buy some things taught that might make things harder....Jesus' yoke is is not heavy, why? because he said so.

Most of all pray for the understanding/wisdom throughout your search to cut through all the nonsense. But, honestly, in the end, if we really decide the absolute truth is what we want, we won't stop until we find it, it's human nature, whether we be Christian or not...down and dirty, no stone unturned determination gets people what they want. And yes that can and will take time, but we'll keep going, throwing all else aside in order to get to it..

 

[tickingclocker]

.... if we really decide the absolute truth is what we want, we won't stop until we find it, it's human nature, whether we be Christian or not...down and dirty, no stone unturned determination gets people what they want. And yes that can and will take time, but we'll keep going, throwing all else aside in order to get to it..

You had some interesting points to consider. But some have their shadowy spots, as in the above chosen comment. This is also how so many end up victims of non-Christian religious cults just as easily. They crave something called "absolute truth", when we all must accept that we ALL see through the glass darkly at present. Just because something sounds logical, perfect, spiritual, feels good, defends a point, fills in a blank, etc., checking off a few unanswered question boxes doesn't always make it "absolute truth". The only one who knows ALL absolute truth--is the Lord. We are not Him. "Of/with/in Him", yes. But never Him. But you cannot urge the insistent to accept that. A red flag to my (perhaps overly cautious) mind. Besides God never tells us to seek after "absolute truth". He tells us to seek after HIM, who promises to give us what HE knows we need, not want. They are different. Want can lie to us through our own imaginations and desires, like assuming we know God created the universe/earth in so many actual days/thousands of years/eons. Whatever. (Must you believe X, Y, and Z in order for God to retain His Holiness? What happens if it gets shattered?) Only God knows the mysterious details of His creation perfectly. Much of what we conclude "about God" is mere human guesswork when we hang our tool belt up at the end of the day--other than He is God, and Jesus is our Savior and Lord. HE told us He created everything. Okay. Accepted by faith. But precisely how, step by step? Nope. Sorry. We never get an answer for "why?" He created everything! Holy silence should be intimately respected. There are times when pondering the absolute wonder of our Holy God is better than any conclusions dreamt up to define Him and His ways.

Some insist their hard-earned conclusions be glued to the top of some spiritual pop chart, where it should be instantly believed and accepted by all as that "absolute truth". Therein lies the danger of promoting man's opinions as God's. Red flags. I've seen it happen too often, even among Christians. Being from a cultist past, sometimes I wonder when hearing Christians endlessly argue over and defend the mysteries of God being fleshed out "their" way, am I still among cultists? I enjoy the differences between denominations, don't get me wrong! It's refreshing to hear different insights LOVINGLY be discussed after a steady diet of "everyone has God wrong but us" for far too many years. But I've also learned to not ignore some red flags. (One is, some "teach". Others subtly to openly bludgeon, thinking its "teaching".) For the life of me, I cannot fathom why so many people are SO utterly terrified of leaving the mysteries of God to Him? Is He not capable of handling them without our comforting boundaries defining them?

All this conflict would be frightening to me if the Lord hadn't first established in my heart that He alone shall be my God. Maybe I'm just the simple sort. I (try to) take God at His Word, and leave the rest in His capable hands. God made everything. Until Jesus Christ removes those spiritual sunglasses in heaven, that's enough detail for my comfort.

 

[tickingclocker]

A. you are correct that a mere fluff 'ad hominem' response has no real contribution to the subject.
B. the "legal code" point is that the text cannot be "wrenched into poetry, symbolism, mythology" in Ex 20:11 the way so many are anxious to do in Genesis 1. It simply "removes that Bible-denying option".

Would Jesus Christ applaud the love in such comments? Ask Him, not me. Also, please direct any defense to Him. Not me.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You had some interesting points to consider. But some have their shadowy spots, as in the above chosen comment. This is also how so many end up victims of non-Christian religious cults just as easily. They crave something called "absolute truth", when we all must accept that we ALL see through the glass darkly at present. Just because something sounds logical, perfect, spiritual, feels good, defends a point, fills in a blank, etc., checking off a few unanswered question boxes doesn't always make it "absolute truth". The only one who knows ALL absolute truth--is the Lord. We are not Him. "Of/with/in Him", yes. But never Him. But you cannot urge the insistent to accept that. A red flag to my (perhaps overly cautious) mind. Besides God never tells us to seek after "absolute truth". He tells us to seek after HIM, who promises to give us what HE knows we need, not want. They are different. Want can lie to us through our own imaginations and desires, like assuming we know God created the universe/earth in so many actual days/thousands of years/eons. Whatever. (Must you believe X, Y, and Z in order for God to retain His Holiness? What happens if it gets shattered?) Only God knows the mysterious details of His creation perfectly. Much of what we conclude "about God" is mere human guesswork when we hang our tool belt up at the end of the day--other than He is God, and Jesus is our Savior and Lord. HE told us He created everything. Okay. Accepted by faith. But precisely how, step by step? Nope. Sorry. We never get an answer for "why?" He created everything! Holy silence should be intimately respected. There are times when pondering the absolute wonder of our Holy God is better than any conclusions dreamt up to define Him and His ways.

Some insist their hard-earned conclusions be glued to the top of some spiritual pop chart, where it should be instantly believed and accepted by all as that "absolute truth". Therein lies the danger of promoting man's opinions as God's. Red flags. I've seen it happen too often, even among Christians. Being from a cultist past, sometimes I wonder when hearing Christians endlessly argue over and defend the mysteries of God being fleshed out "their" way, am I still among cultists? I enjoy the differences between denominations, don't get me wrong! It's refreshing to hear different insights LOVINGLY be discussed after a steady diet of "everyone has God wrong but us" for far too many years. But I've also learned to not ignore some red flags. (One is, some "teach". Others subtly to openly bludgeon, thinking its "teaching".) For the life of me, I cannot fathom why so many people are SO utterly terrified of leaving the mysteries of God to Him? Is He not capable of handling them without our comforting boundaries defining them?

All this conflict would be frightening to me if the Lord hadn't first established in my heart that He alone shall be my God. Maybe I'm just the simple sort. I (try to) take God at His Word, and leave the rest in His capable hands. God made everything. Until Jesus Christ removes those spiritual sunglasses in heaven, that's enough detail for my comfort.

When I say "absolute truth" I'm merely referring to the absolute truth the Bible presents and not a twisted version of it as in the subject of what some do with the term Tithing. If the term "absolute truth" means something else to someone else, that's up to them...I use it in it's simple/face value form. Yes, only God knows all but I'm talking about the truth that he made available to us, nothing more.

Study and show thyself approved.

Just because something sounds logical, perfect, spiritual, feels good, defends a point, fills in a blank, etc., checking off a few unanswered question boxes doesn't always make it "absolute truth".

The very reason we should pray for knowledge, the proper knowledge and as mentioned, not just listen to one man or small groups, but take what many have to say into consideration. One man/small groups that agree could get one in trouble in the area of cults.

He tells us to seek after HIM, who promises to give us what HE knows we need, not want. They are different. Want can lie to us through our own imaginations and desires, like assuming we know God created the universe/earth in so many actual days/thousands of years/eons.

Not sure what you mean there, we are told directly how long it took.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The text says "the creation of the world" -- nature.
The text says "the things that have been made" -- nature
The text says that even the ungodly - pagans of Romans 1 - saw this "clearly" in nature... 'the things that have been made' and thus were "without excuse".



yes.


What is interesting is that these are not "pagans with a bible" in Romans 1-- Paul is talking about the force of the truth that is apparent to those without a Bible at all - and it is via 'the things that have been made' and "what they see".



which you quote leaving out -- 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse

He made it evident to those without a Bible by making it "clearly seen ...in the the things that have been made" which is observable in-nature "intelligent design+" since the Romans 1 argument goes beyond ID.


Here is a great example where "observations in nature" merely affirm our belief in the Bible.

"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1.

(the force of the truth - from the pen of an atheist and diehard evolutionist - not at all a Christian. A Christian would say it - with a great deal more earnest and sincerity in the force of that truth.)

Romans 1 -
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse

Acceptance of real science such as observable biology (as we see in this case) and physics, chemistry, mathematics etc - have strong Bible affirming results as we see in this case.

Why did you feel the need to re-post the OP on page 2?

I've never seen that before. Don't you have anything new to say?