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There is no evidence againts the Theory of Evolution.

joshua 1 9

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You can believe whatever you please. But, do you deny that your body has mutated genes in it that are unique to you - ie, they are not present in either of your parents. We can make value judgements of 'good' and 'bad' later. I just want to establish that you understand that there ARE unique mutations in your genome?
I beleive that is a part of our fallen condition and that God has a plan for redemption and restoration. Although I just stated a thread on what Frances Collins has to say about this.
 
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Hoghead1

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I have read the Bible at least five times. Every word of it, which is why I believe the genealogies are accurate and true. All the Bible is accurate and true because God watches over His word to perform it. God does what He says He is going to do. In fact we have a Covenant relationship with God, If we do our part of the Covenant then we can be sure that God will perform His part. Yet Paul clearly says: "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 cor 13 12

Job 36:26
How great is God--beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out.

Man may see God's works, and is capable of discerning his hand in them, which the beasts are not, therefore they ought to give him the glory. While the worker of iniquity ought to tremble, the true believer should rejoice.
But your belief in an inerrant Scripture actually came from church teachings to that effect. Everyone looks at Scripture through a lens. For many laity, it is the lens of church teachings. Many laity come to the Bible , with the idea firmly set in their minds that Scripture is inerrant. That the way the Bible says things happened is exactly how they did, period, no question about it. OK, fine. If that's what the laity want to do, so be it. Problem is, however, in modern biblical studies, that is about the worst way to come to Scripture. You should come to Scripture, with an open mind. That means viewing Scripture though the lens of a healthy skepticism about traditional church teachings. Maybe Scripture is inerrant, maybe not. Let's review the hard data and then decide. On that basis, the inerrancy theory is ruled out. The fact of the matter is that the Bible contains about 100 major contradictions. Many accounts were written long after the events took place. The Bible is not an accurate geophysical witness. The Bible does not present an objective history. Conclusion: The Bible is not inerrant, nor should it be expected to be. Divinely inspired as it may be, it is still the work of fallible human beings. Now unless you are naïve enough to believe that humans are infallible and always make infallible judgments, then you have to accept the fact there really are no infallible human witnesses. That doesn't mean the Bible is worthless, just that it is not infallible. Well you may read Scripture and decide it is infallible, biblical scholars also read it and conclude otherwise.
 
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SteveB28

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The evidence for common ancestor is overwhelming. He does not mention anything about mistakes, errors or mutations.

Are you aware that, since 1992 until the present, Collins has held the position of Communicating Editor of the biology journal Human Mutation!!?
 
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SteveB28

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I beleive that is a part of our fallen condition and that God has a plan for redemption and restoration. Although I just stated a thread on what Frances Collins has to say about this.

I'm going to take your convoluted answer as a 'yes'. That each of us do in fact have mutations in our genomes that are unique.

Now, all we have to do is to demonstrate to you that some of these mutations occasionally confer a survival advantage and that these will be positively selected to be passed on throughout the gene pool.

So, let me repeat an earlier question:

What have Collins and others found to be the mechanism which has permitted adult humans to produce lactase, enabling the digestion of raw milk?

If you can possibly avoid it, please leave preaching out of your reply. It has no bearing on the reality of the situation.
 
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joshua 1 9

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But your belief in an inerrant Scripture actually came from church teachings to that effect.
Not at all. I read the Bible and the Holy Spirit of God is to be our teacher, not man. Of course I am interested in what God shows others but not so much what makes the rounds from first to second to third hand accounts. We can not teach truth we can only help people to discover truth for themselves.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Conclusion: The Bible is not inerrant, nor should it be expected to be.
That maybe your conclusion but it is not my conclusion at all and it does not seem to be the conclusion that Collins arrives at. Collins is able to reconcile what appears to be randomness with the clear plan that God has.
 
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Hoghead1

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I esp like the part about Horse evolution that has gone though total revision,
yet the text books still teach the old obsolete model.

darwin_evolution_tree.jpg
tiny-horses-24__605.jpg
Evidence, please.
 
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SteveB28

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That maybe your conclusion but it is not my conclusion at all and it does not seem to be the conclusion that Collins arrives at. Collins is able to reconcile what appears to be randomness with the clear plan that God has.

Yes, Collins believes that your God is behind it all, but he also concludes that this 'plan' is put into action through the process of evolution by natural selection, which you say is false!
 
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SteveB28

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Let me help you with your understanding:

"Most gene mutations are neither beneficial nor harmful. They simply are different. According to Francis Collins, humans have on average of 60 new mutations that vary from our parents. Most of these don’t matter. But occasionally, they do. These mutations are what caused sickle cell resistance to malaria, lactose tolerance, and immunity to HIV. I’m sure there have also been many harmful ones, too."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2008/08/the-almond-trees-beneficial-mutation/
 
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Hoghead1

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Actually what people have trouble with is that fact that the Bible has not changed in 3500 years. If they understand the Bible or not the Bible remains consistent and true from the Beginning. Because God knows the end from the beginning. Calvanism means predetermined. Not random. Everything has a plan and a purpose.

9"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me,10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.…Isa 46
Sorry, no way near accurate about the Bible. The Johnnie Comma was a later insert by Trinitarians. The ending of Mark is a later insert. Originally, three were at least tow Bibles, the Septuagint (Greek OT) and the Masoretic (Hebrew OT). Also there was a Samaritan Pentateuch, which included and eleventh commandment. Both Catholic and early Protestant Bibles contained the Apocrypha, then it was drooped by the Protestants. Between the DSS and later Bibles, Samuel got shorter and Goliath got way taller. Early Christian gnostics had a wholly separate, very different set of Gospels. The Book of Ester got chopped into two pieces, one piece inserted teh Apocrypha, teh other in the OT as we Protestants have it. Luther's Bible place James in a special appendix, separate form the rest, because he believed it was a "straw epistle." Later German Bibles moved it back.
 
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Hoghead1

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Not at all. I read the Bible and the Holy Spirit of God is to be our teacher, not man. Of course I am interested in what God shows others but not so much what makes the rounds from first to second to third hand accounts. We can not teach truth we can only help people to discover truth for themselves.
Totally inaccurate. Scripture makes it very clear that some are to be teachers. Also, the traditional teachings about inerrancy argued they were all inspired by the Spirit, though later debunked. Look, saying teh Spirit inspired you or taught this and that is a dangerous claim to make without providing tons of supporting evidence. Every kook and fanatic in teh book claims he is inspired by the Spirit.
 
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Hoghead1

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No controversy. I wouldn't be able to find one creationist in my local church, which has an evangelical congregation. Almost the only people who think there is any debate have their residence in the American Bible Belt.
Absolutely true. England resolved this debate way back when, yet it still continues on over here.
 
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Hoghead1

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Darwin had a thought,based on evidence for adaptability of finches.
They try to prove this idea.
Nothing is 'discovered'.
You don't have to lie for your beliefs.
Incorrect, pure creation-science propaganda. There is absolutely no evidence that the finches played a major, central role in Darwin's thinking. Also, it was actually a colleague, AR Wallace, who first came up with the idea of survival of teh fitters, which he then shared with Darwin. Originally, it was called the Darwin-Wallace theory.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Yes. As much as I disagree with Frances Collins' religious views, we need more of his ilk to open up the minds of US creationists.
He is not saying anything any different then I am. He is just a lot more articulate then I am. I would almost think he was sneaking in here at night and reading my posts except that he takes it all a lot further then I have ever studied it or thought about. Of course as Christians we have the mind of Christ and we are to be of one mind and one accord.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Totally inaccurate. Scripture makes it very clear that some are to be teachers. Also, the traditional teachings about inerrancy argued they were all inspired by the Spirit, though later debunked. Look, saying teh Spirit inspired you or taught this and that is a dangerous claim to make without providing tons of supporting evidence. Every kook and fanatic in teh book claims he is inspired by the Spirit.
Ok, now I know you have not read your Bible:

1 John 1:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 Corinthians 2:10
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Sorry, no way near accurate about the Bible. The Johnnie Comma was a later insert by Trinitarians. The ending of Mark is a later insert. Originally, three were at least tow Bibles, the Septuagint (Greek OT) and the Masoretic (Hebrew OT). Also there was a Samaritan Pentateuch, which included and eleventh commandment. Both Catholic and early Protestant Bibles contained the Apocrypha, then it was drooped by the Protestants. Between the DSS and later Bibles, Samuel got shorter and Goliath got way taller. Early Christian gnostics had a wholly separate, very different set of Gospels. The Book of Ester got chopped into two pieces, one piece inserted teh Apocrypha, teh other in the OT as we Protestants have it. Luther's Bible place James in a special appendix, separate form the rest, because he believed it was a "straw epistle." Later German Bibles moved it back.
Do you believe in the resurrection?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Yes, Collins believes that your God is behind it all, but he also concludes that this 'plan' is put into action through the process of evolution by natural selection, which you say is false!
I do not say it is false. I go along with Collins and what he says. He is just a lot more articulate and a lot more educated then I am so He can say it better then I can.
 
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