Reexamination of prayer and will

[Neochristian]

I would submit that anything non-essential and material, when it becomes overweeningly important, is an idol. Having a well kept house, nice furniture, a new car, a weed-free lawn, nice clothes, etc. Oddly, this appears to be significant problem amongst conservative theists.

Yes, that's what I'm getting at.

 

[bhsmte]

We're not even talking about that.

Obsessive party goers who get drunk on weekends, does fit the description Locutus explained.

 

[bhsmte]

Just a note to the OP - alcoholism comes in both varieties, daily use or weekend bingeing. They're both alcoholism. I suspect you think that the weekend party drinker is not an alcoholic? If so, you'd be wrong.

This is the medico-psych perspective, by the way. Not the anecdotal perspective.

That would be correct.

 

[chandraclaws]

Idols are simply anything we make more important than God.

 

[SkyWriting]

If idols are prayed to and worshiped, and alcohol is an idol, then we must reexamine what prayer and worship are, because nobody looks to them in a way that we would normally call prayer and worship. So what are they?

The point being that considering alcohol abuse to be a form of worship
helps one to identify that they have a problem. Looking for reasons it
is not, is counter productive.

 

[Neochristian]

Obsessive party goers who get drunk on weekends, does fit the description Locutus explained.

It simply isn't what we are looking for if yiu want to call it an addiction.

 

[Neochristian]

Idols are simply anything we make more important than God.

I can work with that. Now we must look to those occations to better understand worship.

 

[Neochristian]

The point being that considering alcohol abuse to be a form of worship
helps one to identify that they have a problem. Looking for reasons it
is not, is counter productive.

Clearly this was the worst effing example that I could've come up with. A couple others were listed in the Scripture but I can't remember what they were.

Perhaps a better example would be shopping or video games.

 

[SkyWriting]

Clearly this was the worst effing example that I could've
come up with. A couple others were listed in the Scripture but I can't remember what they were.
Perhaps a better example would be shopping or video games.

Not the worst, becasue such labeling IS used to help abusers.
so you'd like to switch to shopping now.

Considering shopping as a form of idol worship is a valid way to
identify it as a problem in ones life. For shopping one can imagine
buying endless gifts for a god that is never satisfied with what you
have already purchased.

For video games, we can imagine that points and treasures or
levels must be achieved as gifts for a god that is never
satisfied with the levels you have achieved.

Any more?

 

[Neochristian]

Not the worst, becasue such labeling IS used to help abusers.
so you'd like to switch to shopping now.

Considering shopping as a form of idol worship is a valid way to
identify it as a problem in ones life. For shopping one can imagine
buying endless gifts for a god that is never satisfied with what you
have already purchased.

For video games, we can imagine that points and treasures or
levels must be achieved as gifts for a god that is never
satisfied with the levels you have achieved.

Any more?

You're just stuck in the wrong way of thinking. Not everyone who enjoys these things excessively is addicted to them.

We're trying to get out of the medical way of looking at it. If that is too difficult for you, or you refuse to do it, then you're wasting my time.

 

[SkyWriting]

You're just stuck in the wrong way of thinking. Not everyone who enjoys these things excessively is addicted to them. We're trying to get out of the medical way of looking at it. If that is too difficult for you, or you refuse to do it, then you're wasting my time.

Nobody said they were. I said that considering these issues as a form
of idol worship is a useful tool for abusers to identify their situation
as a problem. My goal is not to identify abusers. My goal is to help
abusers identify their problem and solve it. If seeing or hearing issues is
wasting your time, then Tommy must be a favorite movie of yours.

I'm sticking to the OP for discussion purposes which doesn't say
anything about medical practices.

 

[Neochristian]

I didn't say they were. I said that considering these issues as a form
of idol worship is a useful tool for abusers to identify their situation
as a problem. My goal is not to identify abusers. My goal is to help
abusers identify their problem and solve it. If seeing or hearing issues is
wasting your time, then Tommy must be a favorite movie of yours.

This topic has nothing to do with any of that. Your efforts are better applied elsewhere.

 

[SkyWriting]

This topic has nothing to do with any of that. Your efforts are better applied elsewhere.

Medical practices is not the thread topic.

 

[Neochristian]

That is correct.

 

[bhsmte]

It simply isn't what we are looking for if yiu want to call it an addiction.

What we are looking for??

Sounds preconceived.

 

[Neochristian]

Non-addicts to help us understand worship.

 

[bhsmte]

Non-addicts to help us understand worship.

Cool.

You claim it is not important to have a reliable method to distinguish between who has an addiction and who doesnt.

If that is the case and you want to focus on non addicts, good luck identifying them, beyond your personal opinion.

 

[Neochristian]

Cool.

You claim it is not important to have a reliable method to distinguish between who has an addiction and who doesnt.

If that is the case and you want to focus on non addicts, good luck identifying them, beyond your personal opinion.

I figured it would be quite easy to identify them. The point of this requires only intuition. Each of us has an intuition about someone who uses excessively but is not addicted. It's simple. Elsewhere he moved on from the topic of alcoholism to wealth or shopping or video games. Maybe that's easier.

 

[bhsmte]

I figured it would be quite easy to identify them. The point of this requires only intuition. Each of us has an intuition about someone who uses excessively but is not addicted. It's simple. Elsewhere he moved on from the topic of alcoholism to wealth or shopping or video games. Maybe that's easier.

As i requested; if it is easy, you should be able to demonstrate a reliable method, that has evidence to support its reliability.

Intuition in determing who is an addict and who isnt? Good luck with that.

 

[Neochristian]

As i requested; if it is easy, you should be able to demonstrate a reliable method, that has evidence to support its reliability.

Intuition in determing who is an addict and who isnt? Good luck with that.

The intuition is easy. There should be no distinguishing anyway as we are only working with non-addicts. Can you not use your imagination to think of an excessive non-addicted user? I've given you several options. Again, if this is too difficult, you are wasting my time.