One piece, the Kalam

[Davian]

...
The claim "God is real" can never be shown to be wrong,

Does your "God" have any testable effect on this world? No?

but the fact that many people make this claim, is reason to believe God is possibly real. The question is which God? Again, it comes down to how reasonable the claims are. If Christians make the most reasonable arguments for the existence of God, then it's reasonable to assume the Christian God is real because of the fact(evidence) that Christian's make the most reasonable arguments for the existence of God.

And in the absence of such arguments, it is reasonable to remain skeptical.

If their arguments make you think in new and different ways, then that's a good thing, if their arguments make you think their dumb, then that's obviously not a good thing.

Not 'dumb', but you do seem to be making an argument for gullibility.

At the end of the day, the person who has better reasons and logic behind what they believe, is the most reasonable person to believe. However, you're still free to not believe them and resort back to skepticism because of the implications of their beliefs.

What implications might those be? A system of morality that boils down to, anything goes, as long as you believe?

 

[Hieronymus]

Does your "God" have any testable effect on this world? No?

Christ.
He had an unmistakeable effect on the world for one.
Also, obviously to a believer the universe and all that is in it is caused by God.
Our reality is the testable effect.

 

[Davian]

Yes they do, of course they do.
It prevents people using words wrongly.

Not at all. Dictionaries describe how we use words, they do not dictate use.

 

[Chriliman]

Dictionaries dont help.

They give multiple meanings, and can abet the person who's argument flounders. The poor loser can unilaterally switch meanings without switching terms, and fancy themselves some sort of rhetorical Houdini... at the expense of coherent discussion, of course.

What word would you use to describe the thought that we all trust that there is truth that can clear up the confusing and contradictory information that is being thrown at us everyday?

 

[Hieronymus]

Not at all. Dictionaries describe how we use words, they do not dictate use.

Yes it does, because it tells you the meaning of words.
But hey, everyone is free to use whatever words in the way they please, but then they should not expect to make sense to others.

uhm..what was this topic about anyway?

 

[Hieronymus]

What word would you use to describe the thought that we all trust that there is truth that can clear up the confusing and contradictory information that is being thrown at us everyday?

That's faith, we all know that.

 

[bhsmte]

What word would you use to describe the thought that we all trust that there is truth that can clear up the confusing and contradictory information that is being thrown at us everyday?

How would you describe your method of verifying, what the truth is?

 

[Chriliman]

uhm..what was this topic about anyway?

I'll take some blame for that, I tend to derail threads. Sorry OP!

 

[Chriliman]

How would you describe your method of verifying, what the truth is?

My ability to honestly answer questions confirms my conscience that I am truthful.

Now can you honestly answer the question I posed?

 

[bhsmte]

My ability to honestly answer questions confirms my conscience that I am truthful.

Now can you honestly answer the question I posed?

Would appear this method leaves no room for outside objective verification.

 

[Hieronymus]

Would appear this method leaves no room for outside objective verification.

No, that's just your prejudice.

 

[bhsmte]

No, that's just your prejudice.

Then show me the independent objective verification.

 

[Hieronymus]

Then show me the independent objective verification.

If you wanted to know you would have looked for it yourself, so no, iḿ not gonna.
But if you have a specific question, that's cool. Shoot!

 

[Chriliman]

Would appear this method leaves no room for outside objective verification.

The outside objective verification is the fact that you have not honestly answered the question I posed. As long as you refuse to honestly answer then I'll continue to have objective verification that I'm honest and you're not. If you honestly answer then we can both be honest. Win win.

 

[quatona]

We are most reasonable when we use the most reasonable definitions of words.

Faith: Trusting in truth.

That appears to be an unreasonable definition, at least far from any common meaning the word is used in.
If you trust in an untruth this is also faith.

 

[quatona]

That's not all too relevant i.m.o., because the question remains: What caused the universe to be as it is in its current appearance?

That´s an interesting question, for sure. And as far as I can tell we don´t have a conclusive explanation.
However, once we acknowledge that the universe can has always existed and at some point transformed into its current appearance, there isn´t any need for a external cause. We can explain changes of the universe without postulating a cause external to the universe quite fine, after all.

How did the apparent fine tuning come about?

Apparent fine-tuning?? What do you mean?

 

[Chriliman]

That appears to be an unreasonable definition, at least far from any common meaning the word is used in.
If you trust in an untruth this is also faith.

Trusting in untruth is gullibility.

Faith is trusting in truth even when you can't fully see the truth yet.

 

[quatona]

Trusting in untruth is gullibility.

Faith is trusting in truth even when you can't fully see the truth yet.

So when you said that everybody have faith in their claims you meant to say all these claims were true?

 

[bhsmte]

The outside objective verification is the fact that you have not honestly answered the question I posed. As long as you refuse to honestly answer then I'll continue to have objective verification that I'm honest and you're not. If you honestly answer then we can both be honest. Win win.

Cool

 

[bhsmte]

If you wanted to know you would have looked for it yourself, so no, iḿ not gonna.
But if you have a specific question, that's cool. Shoot!

I asked my question.