The Tower of Babel

[Moral Orel]

I always found the story of the Tower of Babel to be strange and I wanted to inquire what other thoughts about it might be. For quick reference, I'll post the whole little story right here:

Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.
​

First I'll ask if it is mentioned elsewhere in The Bible. Is there more about the tower elsewhere with any other information at all?

Is there anything that Christians or Jews learn from this story? Is it just a story to explain where all the languages came from?

It seems to have negative connotations though. Is this the start of racism? I know that sounds bad, but the story clearly says that people were working together as one people. Afterwords they were scattered around the world and speaking different languages. Is that not the beginning of other races in the world? It's certainly more significant than different nations. If so, then is God (at this point in history, perhaps he changes things later) advocating racism because he doesn't want us to all work together?

And what is there to be concerned about when thinking of us all working together? Why would God want to be divisive in this manner? Here comes the speculating, as without any other evidence at hand I can only guess.

What God states is bad in this story is that, "nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them". And in Luke 1:37 it states that "nothing will be impossible with God". I know this isn't going to go over well, but how do I interpret this story other than God being worried that we won't be dependent on Him? Does this mean that if God hadn't done what he did at the Tower of Babel we wouldn't need Him? Why not just let people work together? Isn't that we're supposed to do now?

 

[radhead]

The gods in this story represent those in power who are always separating people below them in an attempt to maintain control. Using things like racism or any deviation as a weapon against each other. The same ones who Jesus referenced in Psalm 82 while being questioned by the Pharisees about his title "son of god".

 

[radhead]

Jesus was able to differentiate between the worldly gods (the world he was born into) and the true God in heaven (the kingdom he chose). Has anyone else noticed that his genealogy was not given until AFTER he was baptized by John the Baptist? There is humor throughout the gospels.

 

[dysert]

I always found the story of the Tower of Babel to be strange and I wanted to inquire what other thoughts about it might be. For quick reference, I'll post the whole little story right here:

Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.
​

First I'll ask if it is mentioned elsewhere in The Bible. Is there more about the tower elsewhere with any other information at all?

Is there anything that Christians or Jews learn from this story? Is it just a story to explain where all the languages came from?

It seems to have negative connotations though. Is this the start of racism? I know that sounds bad, but the story clearly says that people were working together as one people. Afterwords they were scattered around the world and speaking different languages. Is that not the beginning of other races in the world? It's certainly more significant than different nations. If so, then is God (at this point in history, perhaps he changes things later) advocating racism because he doesn't want us to all work together?

And what is there to be concerned about when thinking of us all working together? Why would God want to be divisive in this manner? Here comes the speculating, as without any other evidence at hand I can only guess.

What God states is bad in this story is that, "nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them". And in Luke 1:37 it states that "nothing will be impossible with God". I know this isn't going to go over well, but how do I interpret this story other than God being worried that we won't be dependent on Him? Does this mean that if God hadn't done what he did at the Tower of Babel we wouldn't need Him? Why not just let people work together? Isn't that we're supposed to do now?

1. To my knowledge, the Babel incident is not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible.
2. What I learn from the story is the high price of disobedience. The sin of those at Babel was that they were remaining in one place. God had commanded them to go out and replenish the earth -- not stay put.
3. I don't read racism into the story. Indeed, it caused people to separate because they couldn't understand the languages, so it introduced nationalism.

Your other questions are addressed by my #2.

 

[cloudyday2]

If you google "Tower of Babel mythical parallels" there are interesting variations of the story.

It's interesting, because many of the stories involve human unity and a tall structure (tower or tree) that helps to unify the people. God or the gods destroy the structure to disorganize people and keep them from reaching heaven through their unity and achievements.

The anti-Christ story (as I understand some versions of it) is somewhat like a sequel to the Tower of Babel.

I think the "created in God's image" is a clue that humans were originally imagined as servants created by the gods to do their menial work so that they could live in luxury. It would be like humans creating robots to do their work. If the robots start to become a threat to the humans, then the humans would need to mess it up for the robots. IDK

Of course the Bible God is not the same as these gods that create humans to do their menial work.

 

[Moral Orel]

What I learn from the story is the high price of disobedience. The sin of those at Babel was that they were remaining in one place. God had commanded them to go out and replenish the earth -- not stay put.

But that isn't what God said the problem was (according to the story), and if that was the problem he could have just scattered them without confusing the language. The key problem must be that we were working together.

I don't read racism into the story. Indeed, it caused people to separate because they couldn't understand the languages, so it introduced nationalism.

Nationalism and racism are so close though. A lot of times people confuse one term for the other even today. We've had periods in America that showed whites discriminating against each other such as Italians, Polish, Irish... It still has the same results.

And if this wasn't to define the different races, where did they come from, according to The Bible? It isn't going to happen over just 3000 years by evolution.

 

[katerinah1947]

I always found the story of the Tower of Babel to be strange and I wanted to inquire what other thoughts about it might be. For quick reference, I'll post the whole little story right here:

Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.
​

First I'll ask if it is mentioned elsewhere in The Bible. Is there more about the tower elsewhere with any other information at all?

Is there anything that Christians or Jews learn from this story? Is it just a story to explain where all the languages came from?

It seems to have negative connotations though. Is this the start of racism? I know that sounds bad, but the story clearly says that people were working together as one people. Afterwords they were scattered around the world and speaking different languages. Is that not the beginning of other races in the world? It's certainly more significant than different nations. If so, then is God (at this point in history, perhaps he changes things later) advocating racism because he doesn't want us to all work together?

And what is there to be concerned about when thinking of us all working together? Why would God want to be divisive in this manner? Here comes the speculating, as without any other evidence at hand I can only guess.

What God states is bad in this story is that, "nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them". And in Luke 1:37 it states that "nothing will be impossible with God". I know this isn't going to go over well, but how do I interpret this story other than God being worried that we won't be dependent on Him? Does this mean that if God hadn't done what he did at the Tower of Babel we wouldn't need Him? Why not just let people work together? Isn't that we're supposed to do now?

Hi,

As poster, @dysert mentioned, what upset God, was in Genesis 9:1, and in Genesis 1:28, Blessings by God were given.

One part of those Bessings was to fill the earth.

To fill the earth is spreading.

Notice that the result of what God did, was to cause them to spread. It is said twice. That is what upset God, it was their not doing what He Had Told them to do.

A Blessing be God is a Command by God.

As far as for your speculations, to Know God, is to understand The Bible Better.

To tell you anything about God, from my history, it is this, as though you can see all of the universe that there is, both the parts you can see and the parts you cannot see, Jesus is Tender and Mild, and the depths of that and even more than that, is all of the universe that you can see, and all of the universe that you cannot see, plus very much the casing in which that, is in.

Since Jesus is like His Father, that depth of Tenderness and then some, Mildness, is true of His Dad, also. By extension, that I have not given, The Holy Spirit is That Eay Also.

Try reading the Bible like that: as: "The Big Bad God, of the universe, is actually Tender and Mild, and not what I or you previously thought."

Sodom and Gomorrah, and even The Tower of Babylon incident, is entirely better understood, with God as He is, with God That way. Tender and Mild.

LOVE,

 

[Moral Orel]

Hi,

As poster, @dysert mentioned, what upset God, was in Genesis 9:1, and in Genesis 1:28, Blessings by God were given.

One part of those Bessings was to fill the earth.

To fill the earth is spreading.

Notice that the result of what God did, was to cause them to spread. It is said twice. That is what upset God, it was their not doing what He Had Told them to do.

A Blessing be God is a Command by God.

Then, as I asked dysert, what is the significance of stating that nothing is impossible for man if they cooperate with each other? Why does God not say, "You aren't doing what I told you to, now spread out!". It seems like the Bible is giving an explanation as to why he wants us spread out: so that we don't cooperate.

 

[katerinah1947]

Then, as I asked dysert, what is the significance of stating that nothing is impossible for man if they cooperate with each other? Why does God not say, "You aren't doing what I told you to, now spread out!". It seems like the Bible is giving an explanation as to why he wants us spread out: so that we don't cooperate.

Hi,

In science, there really are no why's. There is only what's.

What is an electron can be answered. Why is an electron cannot, normally be answered.

What God did is recorded. What was violated is recorded.

His statement about nothing shall be impossible is recorded.

We, meaning you and I, back in those days did not do as we were told to do. God forced us then to spread.

As far as nothing shall be impossible for man, as God meant that, not as a guess at its meaning, there does not seem to be enough information yet.

However, in Genesis 1:28, with God Commanding us to do science, by Blessing us to subdue the earth, we see much that man as a group is capable of, so far.

It is impressive, meaning how God built us is impressive.

We also wage war and kill and oppress people impressively also.

So, far Spiritually, and honestly, both of those items do not seem to fall under what we as men (males and females, and all those in between), have any control over, so far.

Built in honesty seems to be in everyone, as evidenced that even the worst criminals, eventually tell someone that they knew what they were doing, at some point in their lives.

Spiritually, we also have no control over ordering God, nor holy Angels around, nor demanding information from God, nor holy angels at our commands either.

So, what is possible for us now, is partially known, but not fully yet, as the spreading issue is more fully known now.

LOVE,

 

[Moral Orel]

Hi,

In science, there really are no why's. There is only what's.

What is an electron can be answered. Why is an electron cannot, normally be answered.

What God did is recorded. What was violated is recorded.

His statement about nothing shall be impossible is recorded.

We, meaning you and I, back in those days did not do as we were told to do. God forced us then to spread.

As far as nothing shall be impossible for man, as God meant that, not as a guess at its meaning, there does not seem to be enough information yet.

So we can say the "why" God scattered us is because we didn't scatter as instructed, but we can't say the "why" God scattered us is because we were cooperating, which is the only mention of our actions, before God's action, in the story. Instead of looking at the story directly, we should look back a few chapters in the book for "why" and ignore the information presented in the story as a cause?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Fundamentalists reject evolution because it disagrees with Genesis.

Fundamentalists agree that language evolved despite the fact that the idea of this clearly disagrees with the Tower of Babel in Genesis.

 

[AV1611VET]

Is there anything that Christians or Jews learn from this story? Is it just a story to explain where all the languages came from?

Two things I get from the incident:

1. They were told to spread out and replenish the earth, but were all hanging around Babel.

Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

So God sent them outward in style.

2. Technology was advancing too rapidly.

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

So God put a stop to it in style.

In Dispensation theology, the tower of Babel incident is the judgment that ends the dispensation of Human Government.

 

[katerinah1947]

So we can say the "why" God scattered us is because we didn't scatter as instructed, but we can't say the "why" God scattered us is because we were cooperating, which is the only mention of our actions, before God's action, in the story. Instead of looking at the story directly, we should look back a few chapters in the book for "why" and ignore the information presented in the story as a cause?

Hi,

My only interprtation so far, was to look at them not spreading, as that was the violation, said by them, and confirmed by God twice.

What did I miss?

I see possible arrogance, in their actions. "Let us make a name for ourselves."

Of what are you speaking?

I will look at the chapters you mention after posting this.

I have looked. Still I do not understand your words yet.,

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Two things I get from the incident:

1. They were told to spread out and replenish the earth, but were all hanging around Babel.

Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

So God sent them outward in style.

2. Technology was advancing too rapidly.

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

So God put a stop to it in style.

In Dispensation theology, the tower of Babel incident is the judgment that ends the dispensation of Human Government.

Hi,

And if human Government ended, then Romans 13:1-5, saying all of us are to follow God's laws in Government wouldn't be there?????

LOVE,

 

[AV1611VET]

In Dispensation theology, the tower of Babel incident is the judgment that ends the dispensation of Human Government.

And if human Government ended,

Is that what I said?

 

[Moral Orel]

Hi,

My only interprtation so far, was to look at them not spreading, as that was the violation, said by them, and confirmed by God twice.

What did I miss?

I see possible arrogance, in their actions. "Let us make a name for ourselves."

Of what are you speaking?

I will look at the chapters you mention after posting this.

I have looked. Still I do not understand your words yet.,

LOVE,

This right here:

Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them

What is the significance of this if it isn't the reasoning behind God's choice to confuse their language?

AV1611VET pointed out that God seemed to have a problem with how fast their technology was advancing, that seems like a plausible conclusion.

 

[katerinah1947]

Is that what I said?

Hi,

I did not look up the word dispensation. I will now. I did think that you said what I understood.

I guess not huh??

LOVE,

 

[mmksparbud]

It was more than just hanging around together instead of spreading out, though that, too.
Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

They were wanting to reach to the heavens with something they had made---something so high, another flood would not destroy them---which essentially they were not believing His promise to not destroy the earth again with a flood. Yes, they were working together--but to what end---to make a name for themselves, to glorify themselves. They were working together apart from God and that, if they continued, would have ended up with them being like the people before the flood. Doing only what they wanted which ended up only evil. Spreading out, each with their own language made them learn to work together to survive and take care of each other, not work together to be glorifying themselves and spending their time trying to thwart the will of God. They were self-absorbed.
Personally, and nothing in the bible states this, I believe He separated them into groups that already had similarities in appearance. We tend to gravitate to others "like us", and whatever those similarities were, just became more pronounced over time by their "segregation". There is nothing in the bible that prohibits Adam and Eve having been given DNA different from ours and that the joining of the 2 genetic codes brought into being all the different variations in their offspring that would produce the various races., which was passed on down by Noah and his family.

 

[Moral Orel]

They were wanting to reach to the heavens with something they had made---something so high, another flood would not destroy them---which essentially they were not believing His promise to not destroy the earth again with a flood. Yes, they were working together--but to what end---to make a name for themselves, to glorify themselves. They were working together apart from God and that, if they continued, would have ended up with them being like the people before the flood. Doing only what they wanted which ended up only evil. Spreading out, each with their own language made them learn to work together to survive and take care of each other, not work together to be glorifying themselves and spending their time trying to thwart the will of God. They were self-absorbed.
Personally, and nothing in the bible states this, I believe He separated them into groups that already had similarities in appearance. We tend to gravitate to others "like us", and whatever those similarities were, just became more pronounced over time by their "segregation". There is nothing in the bible that prohibits Adam and Eve having been given DNA different from ours and that the joining of the 2 genetic codes brought into being all the different variations in their offspring that would produce the various races., which was passed on down by Noah and his family.

There's a lot of truth in here, but a lot of speculation as well. Trying to avoid a flood is speculation, and honestly, not even a practical way of avoiding a flood. However, I can see the idea that they were trying to make a name for themselves instead of glorifying God as a problem in God's eyes.

The other part, about working together because they were separated seems unnecessary, since the problem at hand was them working together. It would seem, by this explanation, that God wanted them to rely on Him, and if he hadn't done what he did, then they wouldn't need to rely on Him. There's nothing inherently sinful about trying to build a big city and work together. If there was some other motivation behind it, then a different action would have more specifically targeted that problem instead of creating conflict. That isn't to say that I know better than God on how to deal with the situation, it is to say that we should interpret the actions we read about in a way that directly relates to what God is reacting to. God's actions caused it to be harder for us to work together, so God had a problem with us working together.

 

[katerinah1947]

This right here:

What is the significance of this if it isn't the reasoning behind God's choice to confuse their language?

AV1611VET pointed out that God seemed to have a problem with how fast their technology was advancing, that seems like a plausible conclusion.

Hi, (edits done now,Sorry)

I see no reason to think technological advances worry God, nor the speed of developing them.

Confusing the language of each individual, which happens even today, causes people to move.

Moving is good, for the residents, of an area. They benefit, when others move in. The benefit comes from them learning things they did not know before.

It removes backwardness.

Moving by established residents is also good, as they find that some of their ways, were actually wrong, and they didn't know it, till they left.

It increases their knowledge.

Technology on the other hand, happens faster and better, with a mix of people.

This is well known in research.

The effect so well known, companies strive to have as many people from different parts of the world as possible, to have the widest range of thoughts, involved in solving problems.

Thus patterned cultural thinking is removed better.

At a minimum, half of all the American Staff was from foreign countries, at the research facilities that I normally work in.


As filling the earth, quickens technology advances, that plausibility is weakened by staying in one place, and there are really no statements about God thwarting technology Biblically, rather the opposite is true.

Genesis 1:28, subdue the earth is the command to do science, and Romans 13:1-5, is a command to use science as it is used in Government Laws to Govern.

Wisdom, and to me, maybe me only, I see Wisdom and wisdom in proverbs separately.

I see Wisdom not only as a spirit person who is female, but also full of wisdom, and who delighted in God's work, and He in her, and the first thing God made in all of Creation.

He had to start somewhere. He started with making her.

Lots of people anthropomorphize 'wisdom' to Wisdom, or to Jesus. I do not, and never have. Jesus is not female, as in Proverbs 9:1, nor is Jesus created as some translations have Wisdom as in Proverbs 8, as.

Yet, that is my own work. 'wisdom' is talked about, in solving problems, and comes from God. 'Wisdom' is a creation of God, and made by God, who is full of God's Own personal wisdom also.

Her, in Proverbs 8, and with her gender assured in Proverbs 9:1, again to me, tests man, and when she, a spiritual female person, is convinced of a person's commitment to honesty, she then starts rewarding that person, with knowledge of God, and also understanding God, and also problems.

Additionally, historically, and a required course in College, knowledge comes to all people on earth simultaneously from God.

Those, with sufficient wisdom and knowledge given to them by God directly or through Wisdom, God's Gal Pal to me, (and non sexually so, as some people have read that in, apart from these words), but just a friend type Gal Pal to me, through Wisdom God's Gal Pal to me, whose job it is to reward men, who fear The Lord, understand and develops those ideas first and sometimes only.

So, I still see God enforcing a command only, at Babylon, and do not yet understand those words, of, nothing shall be impossible for them, yet.

LOVE,