Pre-Trib Only Will Egypt and the Nile River be destroyed?

[stephen583]

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee.

9 And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the Lord: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it.

10 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.

11 No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

12 And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.

I mean look at this ! Does that sound to you like the aftermath of a "Conventional War" ??? The land rendered uninhabitable by man or beast for forty years ?! The Egyptian people having to flee from their own land ?! Desolation and wasteland !!! Cities laid waste and desolate for forty years !!! That doesn't sound like the consequences of any conventional war I ever heard of.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I mean look at this ! Does that sound to you like the aftermath of a "Conventional War" ??? The land rendered uninhabitable by man or beast for forty years ?! The Egyptian people having to flee from their own land ?! Desolation and wasteland !!! Cities laid waste and desolate for forty years !!! That doesn't sound like the consequences of any conventional war I ever heard of.

Thank you! No it does not. That was my thought that the Aswan Dam could be breached using nukes.Why am I saying the Aswan Dam? I say it because of the Ezekiel 29 prophecy mentions the dragon in the river.

 

[keras]

Why is it so difficult to see how God Himself will intervene at the moment of an attack on Israel. Just as Psalms 83:13-18 says.
This judgement/ punishment by fire from the sun, WILL literally fulfil what is prophesied. Why go on about nukes?

Nuclear and all weapons of war are neutralized and armies are destroyed by a CME.
The coronal mass ejection – sunstrike, that the Lord will use on His great and terrible Day of vengeance and wrath, will destroy all electronic systems, cause weapons to explode, sink ships, crash aircraft, burn buildings and kill personnel.

Isaiah 34:2 For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations, His wrath is against their armed forces, they will be slaughtered, their dead will stink.

Hosea 10:13-14.....because you have trusted in your chariots and in the number of your warriors, destruction will arise against your people [Israel and the western nations.] and all your fortresses will be overthrown. [military power destroyed]

Hosea 2:18..... I shall break the bow and sword, I shall sweep all weapons of war off the earth, so that My people may lie down without fear.

Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth, shall overthrow the thrones of kings, break the power of the heathen realms, overturn chariots, horses and riders will fall. [armies] Fear will cause them to fight amongst themselves.

Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I shall slaughter your horses and burn your chariots and raze your [military] fortifications to the ground.

Jeremiah 49:35 I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might. [bow and arrows, a military code name for nuclear weapons]

Amos 5:9 The Lord flashes forth destruction upon the strongholds of the powerful nations.

Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against fortified cities.

Isaiah 30:25b ....on the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall.

Deuteronomy 32:22 For fire is kindled by My wrath, it burns to the realms of death below. [weapons stored underground] It devours the earth and its harvest and penetrates to the foundations of the mountains. [The microwave effect of huge coronal mass ejection.]

Jeremiah 25:32 Disaster spreads from nation to nation, [as the earth rotates] a mighty storm of military destruction comes.

Psalm 46:9 In all the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the shields in the fire.

Jeremiah 50:22-27 See how the hammer of the world is shattered. The Lord has opened His armoury, the weapons of His wrath to do His work in the land of the Babylonians. [the godless peoples] Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

Amos 2:14-16 ....the warrior will not save himself, on that Day they will all throw away their weapons and run, but they cannot escape.

Proverbs 12:12 The strongholds of the wicked crumble like clay.

Psalm 76:3 The Lord has broken the flashing arrows [nukes] and all weapons of war.

Ezekiel 7:14 The trumpet has sounded, but no one goes to war, for their actions have called forth My wrath.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Ref: REB, NIV, NET. Some verses abridged.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Keras what you are describing looks like Armageddon to me brother. I can see what you see happening then. But the Gog/Magog war is a prelude to that I think.It's the timing.

 

[keras]

Keras what you are describing looks like Armageddon to me brother. I can see what you see happening then. But the Gog/Magog war is a prelude to that I think.It's the timing.

What all those prophesies describe is the terrible Day [a literal Day] of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. G/M comes later, then at the Return, comes Armageddon, where Jesus kills the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

What all those prophesies describe is the terrible Day [a literal Day] of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. G/M comes later, then at the Return, comes Armageddon, where Jesus kills the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word.

So you are saying that the Day of the Lord and the Return of the Lord are two different time periods?

 

[keras]

So you are saying that the Day of the Lord and the Return of the Lord are two different time periods?

Yes. The sequence of Revelation proves it. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster is the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. at least 14/15 years later Jesus returns on the great Day of the Sovereign Lord. Revelation 16:14

It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth seal, “ the Day of the Lord’s wrath ” is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide fire judgement, which will clear and cleanse His Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalm 18:11
Then, much later, at the Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh bowl fulfilment, the ‘great Day of the Sovereign Lord,’ when He kills the armies of the Anti Christ by the Sword of His Word. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

 

[stephen583]

Many years ago, I used to believe in the Tribulation Period/Second Coming/Millennial Reign/Gog-Magog time line myself. But the more I did a comparative study of the prophecies of Daniel and Ezekiel, the clearer it became, these two prophecies are describing the exact same events, not different events separated by a thousand years.

In a like manner, I also concluded the Book of Revelation corroborates what the Book of Daniel describes concerning the Latter Kingdom of Man. The prophecies in the Revelation about the "ten kingdoms" of the beast rising out of the sea in Revelation 17:12, and the ten toes of the feet of the image in Daniel 2:42-43 are describing the same thing. I no longer believe in the Post Tribulation/Post Millennial Reign/Gog-Magog battle time line. I now believe the Gog/Magog battle takes place during the Great Tribulation Period.

 

[stephen583]

Nuclear and all weapons of war are neutralized and armies are destroyed by a CME.
The coronal mass ejection – sunstrike,

You'll find me and Keras disagree on most things military. I don't see a coronal mass ejection (CME) of any size stopping an AK-47 from firing, unless you kill everyone on the planet that can pull a trigger. Cutting the barrel off an AK-47 with a blow torch is effective. You could probably disable one pretty effectively driving a bulldozer over it several times. Same goes for RPG's, Motars, Field Cannons (like 105 MM Howitzers) and of course "gravity bombs". Most people are unaware 90 percent of the munitions dropped during Desert Storm weren't "smart bombs" (laser guided, satellite gps targeting, indirect drone assisted, high alt. optical acquisition, high tech munitions). Instead, they were predominately what the military calls "stupid" bombs, or "gravity bombs" like the World War Two era stuff. Would I want a tank firing a 90mm HE round at me, even without high tech "electronic"optical/thermal/night vision targeting ?! (Answer) I don't think so.

In any major theatre operation, even superpower countries like the U.S, Russia and China will expend their inventory of high tech smart weaponry within a matter of weeks. Aircraft are stored in hardened bunkers designed to resist damage from EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) effects. So are underground ICBM silos. I find it hard to believe a solar flare of any size is going to "destroy" a nuclear ballistic submarine operating 300 meters below the surface of the ocean. That's just me, I guess.

If you read about God pouring His Wrath out upon the earth and the sun, (Revelation 16) you'll also notice the Scripture says "man does not repent" as a result of these plagues. What about all the Scripture describing, invasions, occupations, theft of treasures, disruption of trade, disease, taking people into captivity, economic collapse and all the other horrible consequences of Conventional Warfare ??? How is all that supposed to happen with no weapons ??? How do the Gentiles tread down the holy city for 42 months with no weapons ??? I have to admit, I don't get it.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well, I can see both scenarios, just not at the same time. I know our Father is capable of destroying the world supernaturally, using the sun as Keras suggested He will do. But, I can also see man made weapons as you suggest Stephen doing irreparable harm to the Earth.

 

[keras]

In a like manner, I also concluded the Book of Revelation corroborates what the Book of Daniel describes concerning the Latter Kingdom of Man. The prophecies in the Revelation about the "ten kingdoms" of the beast rising out of the sea in Revelation 17:12, and the ten toes of the feet of the image in Daniel 2:42-43 are describing the same thing. I no longer believe in the Post Tribulation/Post Millennial Reign/Gog-Magog battle time line. I now believe the Gog/Magog battle takes place during the Great Tribulation Period.

Actually, I see the G/M attack happening before the GT, even before the last 7 years which lead up to the Return.
When Ezekiel 38-39 are studied, it can be seen that God motivates a Northern Alliance to go out against 'a people gathered out of the nations and living in peace and prosperity'.... He does this in order to prove His Holiness at their expense.
This scenario is part of the complete sequence of Ezekiel 34, 35, 36, 37, - the restoration of New Israel, 38, 39, - the G/M attack onto the Lord's people: note especially Ezekiel 39:21-29 and how all this happens before the Return of Jesus, as the Lord's people will be the light to the nations, with His Spirit poured upon them. Isaiah 62:1-5 tells us this new nation, in all of the holy Land, will be called Beulah. Comprised of all true believers in God from every tribe, nation, race and language. Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 56:1-8
Then in Ezekiel 40-48, we have the details of the new Temple, the ordinances and of their life there.
It is going to be an amazing time! Look forward to the great blessings of God onto His people.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Amen Keras.

 

[keras]

If you read about God pouring His Wrath out upon the earth and the sun, (Revelation 16) you'll also notice the Scripture says "man does not repent" as a result of these plagues. What about all the Scripture describing, invasions, occupations, theft of treasures, disruption of trade, disease, taking people into captivity, economic collapse and all the other horrible consequences of Conventional Warfare ??? How is all that supposed to happen with no weapons ??? How do the Gentiles tread down the holy city for 42 months with no weapons ??? I have to admit, I don't get it.

The weapons described in Ezekiel 39:9 are the ancient types and it seems that is what the G/M army may use. Just how useful is an AK47 without ammunition? I reiterate prophesies I posted in #23 -
Hosea 2:18 .....I shall sweep all weapons of war off the earth....
Psalms 46:9 In all the world, He destroys the weapons....
Psalms 76:3 The Lord has broken all the weapons of war...

A CME of unprecedented magnitude will cause massive destruction, the EMP will destroy all electric systems, the fires will burn munition factories, the heat will cause explosives to go off; in a nutshell, the Lord will fulfil what is prophesied !

 

[stephen583]

A CME of unprecedented magnitude will cause massive destruction, the EMP will destroy all electric systems, the fires will burn munition factories, the heat will cause explosives to go off; in a nutshell, the Lord will fulfil what is prophesied !

A CME of the magnitude you are describing would also be an Extinction event. No life would survive. No plankton in the sea. No fish. No crops. No animal or insect life on earth. No birds. No trees. No forests. Nothing would be left alive. It's doubtful Earth would even retain an atmosphere. Earth would become just as dead as Mars.

Would a substantially large CME knock out satellites ? (Probably). Disrupt communications. (Definitely, they have in the past). Cause physical injury, disease and starvation worldwide ? (a really big one would). Would it destroy electrical grids ? (I doubt it, now we're getting into Science Fiction). Blow up ammunition factories ? (Definitely Science Fiction). Cause mankind to have to resort to using archaic weapons like swords, spears and shields to fight a world war ? (Total Science Fiction). But it would make one heck of a Hollywood movie.

 

[stephen583]

The weapons described in Ezekiel 39:9 are the ancient types and it seems that is what the G/M army may use.

If a gigantic CME were to knock mankind back to an "iron age" civilization (which appears to be your theory), I don't see how Jesus could possibly appear as a "Thief In The Night" at the Second Coming, (Revelation 16:15).


I believe there will be a CME event that fulfills apocalyptic prophecy, but nothing like what you're describing.

 

[keras]

A CME of the magnitude you are describing would also be an Extinction event. No life would survive. No plankton in the sea. No fish. No crops. No animal or insect life on earth. No birds. No trees. No forests. Nothing would be left alive. It's doubtful Earth would even retain an atmosphere. Earth would become just as dead as Mars.

Now you're swinging the other way, first you said a CME wouldn't do what is prophesied, now it's annihilation.
Why don't you look carefully at what the prophets said will happen? It is clear that most people will survive this hit from the sun, it will mainly affect the Middle east. Zephaniah 2:1-5, Ezekiel 30:1-5
The Lord has the power to control and make His judgement/punishment do exactly what He wants to happen.
All the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates will be cleared and cleansed. Even the animals, birds and fish will be gone. Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 9:10, Jeremiah 12:12, Zephaniah 1:18
But the rest of the world will be back to 1800's technology, with the loss of all our modern infrastructure. That is why a One World Govt will be seen as the best solution to get things sorted again.

RE Jesus coming as a thief: The event that Jesus said would come unexpectedly, is this sudden destruction, 2 Peter 3:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:3, Revelation 6:12-17 His Return in glory will not be a surprise to anyone with a Bible, as we know that will happen exactly 1260 days after the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple.

 

[JaeMelo]

A little OT but I wish we had a thread that went over prophecies that are being fulfilled right now and ones that may be in the very near future.

I like posts like these. Neutral toned, humble debate with absolutely no insults being thrown about due to differences of interpretation or opinions. Lets keep this up.

 

[keras]

A little OT but I wish we had a thread that went over prophecies that are being fulfilled right now and ones that may be in the very near future.

What is happening now is a fulfilment of Jesus' prophecy, Matthew 24:4-8
In Luke 17:26-37 Jesus said the last days events will commence when the world was again 'as in the days of Noah', that is; apostate, atheistic and disbelieving that God will act once again to correct His creation. Pretty much as we are now.

I like posts like these. Neutral toned, humble debate with absolutely no insults being thrown about due to differences of interpretation or opinions. Lets keep this up.

I trust you can learn something from us.
I have experienced insults and abuse from some whose beliefs I have challenged. From people whose fixed notions of what they think will happen are proved wrong by scripture. Understandable, but not wise to refuse to learn Biblical truths.

 

[JaeMelo]

What is happening now is a fulfilment of Jesus' prophecy, Matthew 24:4-8
In Luke 17:26-37 Jesus said the last days events will commence when the world was again 'as in the days of Noah', that is; apostate, atheistic and disbelieving that God will act once again to correct His creation. Pretty much as we are now.

I trust you can learn something from us.
I have experienced insults and abuse from some whose beliefs I have challenged. From people whose fixed notions of what they think will happen are proved wrong by scripture. Understandable, but not wise to refuse to learn Biblical truths.

Yea, YouTube is full of people like this.. I got a little taste of it not long ago because I was a Post-Trib Rapture believer. However regarding prophecies being fulfilled today possibly these two a could be unfolding?! ...assuming I am interpreting them correctly.

Isaiah 17:1
The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Hosea 4:3
Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Yea, YouTube is full of people like this.. I got a little taste of it not long ago because I was a Post-Trib Rapture believer. However regarding prophecies being fulfilled today possibly these two a could be unfolding?! ...assuming I am interpreting them correctly.

Isaiah 17:1
The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Hosea 4:3
Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

JaeMelo, if you don't mind, I will start another thread dealing with these two prophecies to keep this one on the topic of the destruction of Egypt and the Nile river. I will post the link here on this post.

OK JaeMelo here is the link.
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/damascus-and-animals.7934661/