Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Locutus]

mat 23 37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

Is this a way of warding off the guilt?

 

[Extraneous]

Honestly, I would have rather never been created. At least I would have never been conscientious or aware. The alternative to heaven is conscious eternity away from Him - contingent upon me having enough faith in Him, aND obedience. Imagine suffering and having your faith shaken all the time - then finding out in the end you didn't make it. Yea, I get non-Christians' qualms on this one. This is one reason I will never have kids... sure they will please me but what if they don't "make it?" And, to think they didn't even ask me to exist; I made that choice for them.

I dont believe we need to worry about that. I believe Gods mercy will prevail against our insecurities and fears. I know its hard, but be of good courage, the Lord promised he would not forsake us.

 

[Locutus]

Not always no. We are all going to die and thats a fact of life. He will ultimately cure us from the ultimate sickness though, which is mortality.

Do you believe that god sometimes cures illness or suffering? It's a yes or no question

 

[tatteredsoul]

I'm sorry to say you don't get 'non-Christian qualms' at all. At least not the atheist variety. What so many theists refuse to grasp is that we don't have any qualms. Or, we have as many qualms as the Christian does about not worshipping Odin, or Vishnu. Further, would you worry about any future kids not making it into Valhalla, or Hindu Heaven. Seriously peeps .. think.

I think you read way into what I said but, perhaps I should have just said, "I get the responses in this thread concerning the OP on suffering." But, even that can be taken and ran, it seems.

Of course I wouldn't get it from an atheist perspective, I am not an atheist.

And, I wasn't speaking anything about non-Christian beliefs in a god, their cares about an afterlife, their cares thereof or the like.

What I said before was me speaking for myself. And, I am doing that from now on. So, don't worry about me making commentary on the philosophical intricacies of the non-Christian, or Christian life for that matter - unless I explicitly say so (which I will be much more careful to do in better detail in the future if I continue in this thread.)

 

[Extraneous]

Do you believe that god sometimes cures illness or suffering? It's a yes or no question

It doesn't matter to you so i wont bother to answer. You act like you are worried about people suffering but you are causing it right now. Thats why the Lords teaching is better than whatever it is you believe, because it teaches me not to cause suffering in other peoples lives. You actually strengthen my faith in Him.

 

[Locutus]

I have been tempted to give up on God, and that's what the enemy does to believers. Satan tempted the Lord as well. I wouldn't go back to unbelief for anything however. God gives me hope and love. The world offers only death and pain. I believe its Atheists who are engaged in wishful thinking. They are unwilling to submit to GOd and would rather wish him away. I coulnt wish him away if i tried, because i have prayed too much, endured too much, and the Lord will not forsake me. Goodnight friend.

I'm afraid that's no kind of response to my question of whether you fear Vishnu.

Continuing in that vein, I ask you to consider why you engage in wishful thinking regarding Vishnu. Why are you unwilling to submit to Vishnu, and why do you wish him away?

 

[tatteredsoul]

I dont believe we need to worry about that. I believe Gods mercy will prevail against our insecurities and fears. I know its hard, but be of good courage, the Lord promised he would not forsake us.

I agree I don't think He would forsake "us," but who are [His] "us?" When you suffer, and He is silent, and you get no answers and your faith is quaked you aren't so sure you are in the "us" club even if you make it out of trials.

 

[Locutus]

What I said before was me speaking for myself. And, I am doing that from now on. So, don't worry about me making commentary on the philosophical intricacies of the non-Christian, or Christian life for that matter - unless I explicitly say so (which I will be much more careful to do in better detail in the future if I continue in this thread.)

Fair enough. My apologies

 

[Extraneous]

I'm afraid that's no kind of response to my question of whether you fear Vishnu.

Continuing in that vein, I ask you to consider why you engage in wishful thinking regarding Vishnu. Why are you unwilling to submit to Vishnu, and why do you wish him away?

I will not humor you with a response. If you actually cared about suffering people, you wouldnt play games as you do.

 

[Extraneous]

I agree I don't think He would forsake "us," but who are [His] "us?" When you suffer, and He is silent, and you get no answers and your faith is quaked you aren't so sure you are in the "us" club even if you make it out of trials.

I embrace his message of love, that gets me through the trials of life.

 

[Extraneous]

If you suffered, you would have more empathy.

 

[Locutus]

It doesn't matter to you so i wont bother to answer. You act like you are worried about people suffering but you are causing it right now. Thats why the Lords teaching is better than whatever it is you believe, because it teaches me not to cause suffering in other peoples lives. You actually strengthen my faith in Him.

It does matter in the context of this debate. We have here people saying that man creates all suffering, and that god allows it, without intervening, to teach us a lesson (!!). Yet others, including you, say god does intervene to reduce suffering - sometimes. What does that tell us about a god who, upon request (prayer) cures Aunty Betty's cancer, but despite thousands or perhaps millions of requests, allows small children to die a horrible death from starvation?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is this a way of warding off the guilt?

God represents absolute perfect Justice so there is no injustice in Him. People are accusing Him of not being Just but they have no evidence to back up their claim. This is only based on their lack of understanding.

 

[Extraneous]

It does matter in the context of this debate. We have here people saying that man creates all suffering, and that god allows it, without intervening, to teach us a lesson (!!). Yet others, including you, say god does intervene to reduce suffering - sometimes. What does that tell us about a god who, upon request (prayer) cures Aunty Betty's cancer, but despite thousands or perhaps millions of requests, allows small children to die a horrible death from starvation?

If you are so much better than God then why dont you go out and relieve suffering instead of creating it?

 

[Locutus]

If you suffered, you would have more empathy.

So the people questioning worship of a god who allows serious suffering, of the sort which adds no value to a life, are the ones lacking empathy now? The very people who don't view such suffering as a positive?

I sincerely hope you able to extract a glimmer of awareness on this.

 

[Extraneous]

So the people questioning worship of a god who allows serious suffering, of the sort which adds no value to a life, are the ones lacking empathy now? The very people who don't view such suffering as a positive?

I sincerely hope you able to extract a glimmer of awareness on this.

The Lord teaches me to love people, and to help them. Even if you dont believe he exists, surely you should see value in HIs teaching about love. Perhaps its you who might see a glimmer of awareness here.

 

[Locutus]

God represents absolute perfect Justice so there is no injustice in Him. People are accusing Him of not being Just but they have no evidence to back up their claim. This is only based on their lack of understanding.

All we have to go on are the claims of believers. They say a) God cured my rich and well fed and air-conditioned bad back, and b) god allows small children to die horrible deaths after a short life of abject suffering in abject poverty so that I learn to be a better Christian.

If you can't see anything wrong with that picture then you may be lost to your own morality.

 

[Locutus]

If you are so much better than God then why dont you go out and relieve suffering instead of creating it?

I've dedicated much of my life these past 20 years to doing just that. I live without the comforts you take for granted in order to ensure an equitable future for humanity.

 

[Locutus]

The Lord teaches me to love people, and to help them. Even if you dont believe he exists, surely you should see value in HIs teaching about love. Perhaps its you who might see a glimmer of awareness here.

If you're incapable of feeling or understanding love without the guidance of a deity then yes, it's a good thing.

 

[Extraneous]

All we have to go on are the claims of believers. They say a) God cured my rich and well fed and air-conditioned bad back, and b) god allows small children to die horrible deaths after a short life of abject suffering in abject poverty so that I learn to be a better Christian.

If you can't see anything wrong with that picture then you may be lost to your own morality.

What if God isnt real? That is your implication. Many people who believe he exists feed the poor and help others who suffer. You see value in tearing that down? All you would do is cause more suffering. Its you who seem to be lost in your own morality, if you cant see that.