LDS LDS, The Father, and the Trinity

[Jane_Doe]

Both are the same topics.

I respectfully disagree.

Did Joseph Smith see the Father?
Does Bible say that the Father, Son, and Spirit are co-substantail?

These are two VERY different questions, and will take the conversation in two very different directions.

Edit: if you do see them as the same question, could you explain to me how they are the same question and help me out?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Now I am not a Mormon but for the sake of fairness I would have to say you are not entirely correct. Yes, nobody can see the face of God and live. That is...if God was revealed in his full glory. We read in in Scripture where Jacob wrestled with God and was later renamed Israel. Obviously he had to see God's face. Abraham also met with God when he was told he would have a son and Sarah laughed. So it is completely possible to see the face of God, just not in his full glory.

Thanks that's the whole point.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I respectfully disagree.

Did Joseph Smith see the Father?
Does Bible say that the Father, Son, and Spirit are co-substantail?

These are two VERY different questions, and will take the conversation in two very different directions.

Edit: if you do see them as the same question, could you explain to me how they are the same question and help me out?

Well they are in that this co-substatail immaterial substances is suppose to be invisible?

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

And we find the properties of God the Father to be plasma energy of infinite mass, intelligence, and spirituality ...

Our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. - Daniel 12:3
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. - Luke 22:69

God is the light and the energy that makes up all matter. And soon that energy and light will return to him and he will be glad to have his mass back...

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12

God is Spirit!

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

The Apostles did not see the Father, but they beheld the Father in his Christ. The Father did not appear to any New Testament figures, but he did roar out from heaven... In which Peter remembered all to well...

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. - 2 Peter 1:17

 

[rockytopva]

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

In that matter cannot be created or destroyed also shows the eternal properties of God the Father. And it is the delight of God to do stuff with his light and energy. I would imagine that the mass has turned to plasma and back into mass several times as he has willed it.

 

[Ironhold]

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

[citation needed]

 

[rockytopva]

[citation needed]

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It would be impossible for God the Father to create if he were flesh and bones. God has to embody higher forms in order to manipulate the mass.

For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29
Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. - Exodus 32:10

God the Father is a consuming fire. He can disassociate himself into plasma energy and the then re-associate himself into mass to his liking. Mass can be turned into plasma and plasma mass... But it cannot be created or destroyed, it merely changes form as the Father wills it. God the Father was not so foolishness that he entrusted too much of his E/c2 to those below him.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. - Revelation 12:4

I believe that when the arch-angel Lucifer rebelled in heaven and took his third of the angels with him that they forfeited much of their E/c2 on the way down. And became the opposite of E/c2, which would be z (absolute zero, very cold, hateful) / d (darkness, fear, despair, greed, sorrow). The demonic spirits long for their warm bodies and desire to inhabit our human ones. The spiritual anointing also became ego.

 

[rockytopva]

But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him? - 2 Chronicles 2:6
But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built? -2 Chronicles 6:18

 

[Ironhold]

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It would be impossible for God the Father to create if he were flesh and bones. God has to embody higher forms in order to manipulate the mass.

For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29
Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. - Exodus 32:10

God the Father is a consuming fire. He can disassociate himself into plasma energy and the then re-associate himself into mass to his liking. Mass can be turned into plasma and plasma mass... But it cannot be created or destroyed, it merely changes form as the Father wills it. God the Father was not so foolishness that he entrusted too much of his E/c2 to those below him.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. - Revelation 12:4

I believe that when the arch-angel Lucifer rebelled in heaven and took his third of the angels with him that they forfeited much of their E/c2 on the way down. And became the opposite of E/c2, which would be z (absolute zero, very cold, hateful) / d (darkness, fear, despair, greed, sorrow). The demonic spirits long for their warm bodies and desire to inhabit our human ones. The spiritual anointing also became ego.

That's not a source citation.

That's you repeating yourself.

 

[rockytopva]

That's not a source citation.

That's you repeating yourself.

Well then, I have no citation. I would like to point out though that God the Father is much more than your local Tom, Dick, or Harry.

 

[rockytopva]

[citation needed]

Here is about an hours worth of citation... The best I could do...

 

[rockytopva]

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. - Revelation 4:8

1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. - Isaiah 6

RW Schambach describing the Holiness of God the Father... The one who was, who is, and who is to come. The one that is above all!

 

[withwonderingawe]

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It would be impossible for God the Father to create if he were flesh and bones. God has to embody higher forms in order to manipulate the mass.

For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29
Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. - Exodus 32:10

God the Father is a consuming fire. He can disassociate himself into plasma energy and the then re-associate himself into mass to his liking. Mass can be turned into plasma and plasma mass... But it cannot be created or destroyed, it merely changes form as the Father wills it. God the Father was not so foolishness that he entrusted too much of his E/c2 to those below him.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. - Revelation 12:4

I believe that when the arch-angel Lucifer rebelled in heaven and took his third of the angels with him that they forfeited much of their E/c2 on the way down. And became the opposite of E/c2, which would be z (absolute zero, very cold, hateful) / d (darkness, fear, despair, greed, sorrow). The demonic spirits long for their warm bodies and desire to inhabit our human ones. The spiritual anointing also became ego.

Rocky ; It would be impossible for God the Father to create if he were flesh and bones. God has to embody higher forms in order to manipulate the mass.

Spoken like a true Greek philosophical pagan!

Jesus was Yahweh and as a man he commanded the water to turn into wine, the waves to be still and the fish to multiply.

 

[withwonderingawe]

But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him? - 2 Chronicles 2:6
But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built? -2 Chronicles 6:18

"But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built?" -2 Chronicles 6:18

"2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle/(temple of his body) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes" … Rev 21

Mmmm there seems to be a Biblical discrepancy

 

[rockytopva]

Spoken like a true Greek philosophical pagan!

"The Omnipotent Father, with his thunder made Olympus to tremble" - Ovid

 

[Ironhold]

"The Omnipotent Father, with his thunder made Olympus to tremble" - Ovid

You realize that wasn't a compliment, right?

 

[rockytopva]

You realize that wasn't a compliment, right?

I did not see that one!

 

[rockytopva]

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. - Luke 10:22
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one. - John 10
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; - Ephesians 5:20

All things proceed from the source of all energy and light... The great Heavenly Father. Including the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ, who are one with the Father.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Both are the same topics.

I agree. Each will form it's one post following, as the other threads have.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. - Luke 10:22
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one. - John 10
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; - Ephesians 5:20

All things proceed from the source of all energy and light... The great Heavenly Father. Including the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ, who are one with the Father.

Yes.

What the problem is with Mormonism is that they need to see a hiarchy and they believe that God has flesh and bones.

So, it will get hairy