Fossil Record Observation

[FutureAndAHope]

You seem to be mixing up nonsense and real science.

And if this was a weak attempt to explain the formation I posted it utterly fails. Do you wish to discuss it? Even you can understand why that formation shows that it was eroded over a long period of time, most of it before man was here so definitely not a food product. It could not have been eroded quickly.

Hi I don't mind discussing at all, why do you say I am wrong?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi I don't mind discussing at all, why do you say I am wrong?

Mainly because what you posted was nonsense that had nothing to do with the image that I linked. Did you look at it? You can blow that picture up immensely by clicking on the picture twice in this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goosenecks_State_Park

Did you notice the shape of that landform. It is a meander. To be more specific it is an entrenched meander. You do know what meanders are, don't you?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

With the exception of the Megalodon, all the monsters from your link were also air breathers... and smaller then some modern wales and larger then others.

Although air breathing is a part of the survival theory if you use the flood model it is not the only valid reason for survival. If you look at all those dino fish they all have one linking feature, they are all fish or meat eaters. In the slowly rising flood theory there woul be a lot of dad or dying marine life lying around you would imagine this a honey pot to those large meat eaters it would draw them on shore and ultimately to their deaths. Why is there an absence of modern whales a) they are not meat eaters so not drawn on shore b) whales rarely beach in modern times so there is no reason to expect they would during the flood.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Mainly because what you posted was nonsense that had nothing to do with the image that I linked. Did you look at it? You can blow that picture up immensely by clicking on the picture twice in this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goosenecks_State_Park

Did you notice the shape of that landform. It is a meander. To be more specific it is an entrenched meander. You do know what meanders are, don't you?

Please explain why a meander could not be caused by flood run off.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please explain why a meander could not be caused by flood run off.

Because flood run off forms sheet flows. It does not create meanders. A meander, especially one of that size, would not even start to form until long after the flood was gone. Meanders are the products of slowly moving streams. So the first big problem for you is that meander could not have formed until after the flood was done.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Because flood run off forms sheet flows. It does not create meanders. A meander, especially one of that size, would not even start to form until long after the flood was gone. Meanders are the products of slowly moving streams. So the first big problem for you is that meander could not have formed until after the flood was done.

I can see your point that a flood will generally receded at a balanced level. However there is the possibility of it being caused at the time of the flood. The reason I say this is the deposits or layers of earth would all be very soft. There is also a body of water above this formation, in times of flood or heavy rain these bodies often become banked up, and take a while to empty. Because the layers are essentially at this time only soft sand it could take only a day not millions of years to create such a feature.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can see your point that a flood will generally receded at a balanced level. However there is the possibility of it being caused at the time of the flood. The reason I say this is the deposits or layers of earth would all be very soft. There is also a body of water above this formation, in times of flood or heavy rain these bodies often become banked up, and take a while to empty. Because the layers are essentially at this time only soft sand it could take only a day not millions of years to create such a feature.

No, you need to look up meander formation. A flood receding would do so in sheet flow. That would not make meanders. Now you are merely repeating your errors.


And the fact that the meander itself could not have formed until after the flood is just the beginning. But until you understand that there is no moving on.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

No, you need to look up meander formation. A flood receding would do so in sheet flow. That would not make meanders. Now you are merely repeating your errors.


And the fact that the meander itself could not have formed until after the flood is just the beginning. But until you understand that there is no moving on.

Hi I have started to research erosion to see if it is possible to happen.

So far I would say it is possible if the soil is weak, like freshly deposited sediment.

But to complicate the issue farther let's assume before the flood a river existed maybe even a deep ravine, this is possible. As fresh sediment was deposited during the flood the ravine would still exist, the gully would just be under water. Essentially as the flood plain drained it would follow the course of the existing ravine quickly cutting through the freshly deposited sediment. Remember this is sand not rock at this point.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi I have started to research erosion to see if it is possible to happen.

So far I would say it is possible if the soil is weak, like freshly deposited sediment.

But to complicate the issue farther let's assume before the flood a river existed maybe even a deep ravine, this is possible. As fresh sediment was deposited during the flood the ravine would still exist, the gully would just be under water. Essentially as the flood plain drained it would follow the course of the existing ravine quickly cutting through the freshly deposited sediment. Remember this is sand not rock at this point.

Nope, you are just grasping at straws. Please show your justification for such a silly claim.

And the "gully" claim does you no good. This is far more than a gully and the strata found there extend for many many miles. As a Christian you have a duty to be honest. Please try to live up to that.

 

[Shemjaza]

Although air breathing is a part of the survival theory if you use the flood model it is not the only valid reason for survival. If you look at all those dino fish they all have one linking feature, they are all fish or meat eaters. In the slowly rising flood theory there woul be a lot of dad or dying marine life lying around you would imagine this a honey pot to those large meat eaters it would draw them on shore and ultimately to their deaths. Why is there an absence of modern whales a) they are not meat eaters so not drawn on shore b) whales rarely beach in modern times so there is no reason to expect they would during the flood.

A number of modern whales are meat eaters.

In addition, aside from all evidence, where did all this water go after the flood?

How did any animals survive with no plants to eat? How did the carnivores eat? Why don't all creatures have the same level of inbreeding?

 

[eclipsenow]

I was on another thread and we were discussing the fossil record.... believe in a global flood, I believe God as the bible said flooded the whole earth. Now what would we expect to see if this happened?... etc etc...

Christianity is NOT opposed to evolution; it's just creationists cannot respect hermeneutics, the science of understanding how the original audience would have read this passage. Most Sydney Anglican ministers are evangelical, respect the doctrine known as the 'Sufficiency of Scripture', and yet accept evolution.

This is my friend Dr John Dickson's paper on the ancient understanding of Genesis 1. It's theological gold! Genesis 1 has nothing to do with HOW God made the world, and everything to do with WHY! That is, an over-reaction to Darwin's theories has distorted the modern reading of Genesis and made people read it as some kind of dry, boring, arbitrary list of what-God-did when, when it's actually closer to a highly structured poem taking us on a tour of why God knit the world together in the particular *relationships* He has put together. It's theological, not scientific. And I personally feel sorry for modern day Creationists, not just because they have to live in such terrible fear of everything 'sciencey' that indicates an old earth, but because they're missing out on the theological GOLD that is in Gensis 1 because of their literalistic reading of it!
http://www.iscast.org/journal/articlespage/Dickson_J_2008-03_Genesis_Of_Everything

Here is some more exploration of some of the problems if we do accept evolution. EG: Animal suffering before the fall? Do creationists, in reading Genesis 1 literally, have a serious problem with their own theology of creation because they've missed the theological messages in the passage by reading it literally? Etc.
http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/day-music-died.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-i.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-ii-on_21.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-iii-tale.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-iv-when.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-iv.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-v-god.html

http://reflectionsinexile.blogspot.com.au/2007/11/problems-with-creation-science-v-god_30.html

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Nope, you are just grasping at straws. Please show your justification for such a silly claim.

And the "gully" claim does you no good. This is far more than a gully and the strata found there extend for many many miles. As a Christian you have a duty to be honest. Please try to live up to that.

Hi I think what I said makes perfect sense. Could you tell me why erosion coul not happen in soft newly formed soil in an existing river basion.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

A number of modern whales are meat eaters.

True but they are relatively small in size compared to the predictors that we see in the fossil record. They could swim away in shallower tides.

In addition, aside from all evidence, where did all this water go after the flood?

Hmm... Water just changed distribution... God moved the earth around... And the water formed oceans. He could easily reshape the earth. Push some mountains up, move other areas lower.

How did any animals survive with no plants to eat? How did the carnivores eat? Why don't all creatures have the same level of inbreeding?

After a flood you would still have vegetation in many areas. So the animals could still eat. I would imagine the meat eaters could have survived off dead bodies for a while. But it does pose some questions to think through.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi I think what I said makes perfect sense. Could you tell me why erosion coul not happen in soft newly formed soil in an existing river basion.

Then you have no clue. Why didn't you find some sites that explain to you how meanders are formed? I could do this for you, but it is better if you find this out for yourself. In fact I know that you did not look up how meanders form since you know that you would have been wrong. Meanders start forming from straight flowing streams. In very low flat areas the flow is reduced. No stream will flow perfectly straight, it will always erode one side a bit more than the other. It will slowly erode the sides until a series of bends form.

Now of course there was no place for your mythical flood water to go to, but as I already pointed out, at best as the water receded you would have sheet flow. There would be no river channels. Meanders form in flood plains where there is only one river flowing, not a sheet of water. It takes years to form large meanders. Again this is just the top of the meander.

This is your last chance. If you want to deny reality you need to find a valid source that supports you.

 

[VirOptimus]

-snip-

Hmm... Water just changed distribution... God moved the earth around... And the water formed oceans. He could easily reshape the earth. Push some mountains up, move other areas lower.

-snip-

Hahaha, no. Just read up on how much water would be needed to flood the earth. Its just a myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hahaha, no. Just read up on how much water would be needed to flood the earth. Its just a myth.

Sadly he probably will not admit it. The fact that ice floats tells us that there was no worldwide flood. I am trying to introduce him to the concept of incised or entrenched meanders. So far he can't even get himself to admit how meanders form, though that is extremely well understood in the world of stream dynamics. To believe the flood myth one has to deny reality. It is not a matter of "if", it is only a matter of "when".

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hahaha, no. Just read up on how much water would be needed to flood the earth. Its just a myth.

Tell me that stats. But from my eye the vast majority largest percentage of the world is water. If God moved mountains down I am sure it could be flooded.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

A number of modern whales are meat eaters.

additional to my response about them being smaller in size. I thought this answer needed more thought. Most large carnivorous whales alive today are arctic dwelling so would not be in the vicinity of the tropic areas where the larger whale like creatures died.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tell me that stats. But from my eye the vast majority largest percentage of the world is water. If God moved mountains down I am sure it could be flooded.

We know that is not the case. You need to learn some basic science if you want to challenge any at all. Right now you are not doing your Christian duty.

 

[Shemjaza]

Tell me that stats. But from my eye the vast majority largest percentage of the world is water. If God moved mountains down I am sure it could be flooded.

If you have to invoke miracles then evidence is irrelevant.

Why care about your ad hoc explanations if any hole can just be filled with 'God fudged it'?