Why is God so hidden? Why must we seek Him to Find Him?

[thebackyardpreacher]

I only know of one way to understand God, that is through Jesus. Read the gospels and be illuminated.

 

[Noxot]

The way I know Him now is nothing like I "knew" God when I was younger. But I would never have known Him like I do now if it were not for the years of 1. Praying 2.studying scriptures 3. taking notes about my experiences and comparing them to the bible and modern science...I could go on and on. What I am wondering is that if I had not done all of that over the last 20 years I might have no clue who He is or even if He even exists in the first place.

So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly? So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.

Thoughts?

I bet for many reasons since his mind is infinite. if we knew for sure that God is good we might never have the possibly of us showing our true colors. you know how some criminals commit crimes at night because there are less people. so the night brought out a part of them that was hidden in the day. maybe God wanted to know or maybe we wanted to know how we would be if we did not believe in him as he is. so maybe God likes to keep the revelation of him hidden in some measure because of certain things that were planed out for this stage we are on called the world. and maybe he likes to play hide and go seek too.

also in the light it is light but if you shine it through a crystal you get many different colors. so maybe God wanted to do some kind of thing like this and that is why things are the way they are. and he wanted to see what colors we shall become and choose. and in this world we can know who we are when we don't believe in him and then we change and change but it is still growth and that makes the tree with more and more rings and they are pretty to look at except for God this happens on a divine kind of level. and so our soul is like a world with all kinds of animals and plants and ecosystems. but the sun is still nice too, in it's own way.

 

[Moral Orel]

Double post

 

[Moral Orel]

I understand it and don't need God to change his ways. I trust him and his messengers.

You understand it or you accept it? I mean, do you know why it is, or do you not know but trust God is doing the right thing?

 

[Colter]

You understand it or you accept it? I mean, do you know why it is, or do you not know but trust God is doing the right thing?

I understand it, "No material man could behold the spirit God and preserve his mortal existence. The glory and the spiritual brilliance of the divine personality presence is impossible of approach by the lower groups of spirit beings or by any order of material personalities."

You have suggested that God could or should create a way, but to do so would only be a representation or manifestation which is in fact true of the Son. To see the Son, aka Jesus, was to have seen the Father. But it remains true, it's not possible for us to see the spirit Father and live.

 

[Moral Orel]

You have suggested that God could or should...

I never once said He should have done anything. I have stated that omnipotence means he could have done it other ways, and asked why he picked this one.

but to do so would only be a representation or manifestation which is in fact true of the Son.

So you're saying the only way God is capable of letting us see him is through Jesus? God is incapable of designing us or the universe in any other way that would allow us to have direct contact with him?

 

[Colter]

I never once said He should have done anything. I have stated that omnipotence means he could have done it other ways, and asked why he picked this one.


So you're saying the only way God is capable of letting us see him is through Jesus? God is incapable of designing us or the universe in any other way that would allow us to have direct contact with him?

You are hung up on the term omnipotence, a human term of the finite mind. Whatever way God chooses for us is the right way. But as we are now we cannot see the eternal, Universal Father, not until we become more spiritual at another point in time. We are incapable beyond his manifestation in the creation.

 

[Moral Orel]

You are hung up on the term omnipotence, a human term of the finite mind.

The only problem with a finite mind and the concept of omnipotence is that I can't think of all the different ways God could have done things, I can only think of some. I'm not saying that the other ways I can think of are better since I don't know what the purpose is that God wants to accomplish by being, at least initially, distant from us and hard to reach.

Whatever way God chooses for us is the right way.

So then you simply accept that he did things this way, and you don't know why, and don't care why? You don't know if there is a lesson to be learned, and you don't know what the purpose is, if any, for God wanting to be sought instead of readily available? It's okay to say you don't know.

How about a metaphor for our exchange?

I ask, "Why can't I cross the street anywhere I want?"

You answer, "Because it's the law and you'll die if you break it."

I ask, "Why did we make that law instead of designing some other system to get around on foot?"

And I'm waiting for a reply to that question.

 

[Colter]

The only problem with a finite mind and the concept of omnipotence is that I can't think of all the different ways God could have done things, I can only think of some. I'm not saying that the other ways I can think of are better since I don't know what the purpose is that God wants to accomplish by being, at least initially, distant from us and hard to reach.


So then you simply accept that he did things this way, and you don't know why, and don't care why? You don't know if there is a lesson to be learned, and you don't know what the purpose is, if any, for God wanting to be sought instead of readily available? It's okay to say you don't know.

How about a metaphor for our exchange?

I ask, "Why can't I cross the street anywhere I want?"

You answer, "Because it's the law and you'll die if you break it."

I ask, "Why did we make that law instead of designing some other system to get around on foot?"

And I'm waiting for a reply to that question.

God does what he does for a reason, I trust its the best why to raise his children.


Consider this:


"The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

1. Is courage—strength of character—desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

2. Is altruism—service of one's fellows—desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

3. Is hope—the grandeur of trust—desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.


4. Is faith—the supreme assertion of human thought—desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

6. Is idealism—the approaching concept of the divine—desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.


7. Is loyalty— devotion to highest duty—desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

8. Is unselfishness—the spirit of self-forgetfulness—desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

9. Is pleasure—the satisfaction of happiness—desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities." UB 1955

 

[Moral Orel]

Now we're getting somewhere. I won't talk about all the things you listed, but I will point out the one that is pertinent to our conversation:

Is faith—the supreme assertion of human thought—desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

I think I may need you to clarify this in your own words. Is this your definition of faith: "...the supreme assertion of human thought..."? Does that mean the the absolute pinnacle of what we can assert as a human is faith? Does it mean that we assert that there is a supreme being because of faith? I don't want to misconstrue the meaning of this statement.

But a follow up question just to keep things moving: why is faith desirable? I may need the clarification for the previous statement in order to understand an answer to that question based on the definition of faith used, but I can think of a lot of instances where I would rather "know for certain" than "have faith" so I wonder if faith is something that is desirable at all in the first place.

 

[HitchSlap]

I only know of one way to understand God, that is through Jesus. Read the gospels and be illuminated.

What, specifically, will be "illuminated?"

 

[thebackyardpreacher]

What, specifically, will be "illuminated?"

Maybe nothing. Or maybe everything. Have an open mind and just maybe the secrets of the universe which are in plain sight may be opened to you. Have ears to hear, and eyes to see.

 

[HitchSlap]

Maybe nothing. Or maybe everything. Have an open mind and just maybe the secrets of the universe which are in plain sight may be opened to you. Have ears to hear, and eyes to see.

But there are much more important books that have the ability to "illuminate."

 

[Davian]

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock.

Knock Knock

• Davian
• Jan 1, 2015

 

[thebackyardpreacher]

But there are much more important books that have the ability to "illuminate."

Then by all means enlighten yourself. I am only giving my opinion.

 

[HitchSlap]

Then by all means enlighten yourself. I am only giving my opinion.

Check.

 

[Locutus]

I am only giving my opinion.

truth seeps out when you least expect it.

 

[Locutus]

Maybe nothing. Or maybe everything.

Have an open mind and just maybe the secrets of the universe which are in plain sight may be opened to you. Have ears to hear, and eyes to see.

so, not helpful at all. how is anyone supposed to glean meaning from your response?

meantime, it's not possible to have a more open mind than 'neutral'. a neutral mind is effectively an agnostic mind, which has not yet seen any reason to believe, nor is opposed to believing should evidence present itself. I was once such an agnostic myself ... and read the Bible, talked to ministers, talked to Christians, attended church services, read Carroll, etc etc in an attempt to believe. There wasn't anything seen or heard which suggested any of it were true. Nothing. On the contrary, I fairly quickly realised that in order to believe, one must first believe. And having not been indoctrinated for or against religion as a child, I had no predisposition to presupposition, as it were. in other words, I did not have the tools necessary for the suspension of disbelief. hence my progression from neutral agnostic to full blown atheist.

 

[thebackyardpreacher]

truth seeps out when you least expect it.

Yea I suppose it does. It takes an amount of blind faith and trust. I get it not easy but if it is not for you than, it's not for you.

 

[thebackyardpreacher]

Check.

Check what? it's my opinion just like yours. I am not here to argue. If you don't want enlightenment by all means walk around in the dark. It's your issue I am content and freely will share my knowledge yet I won't always cast my pearls before swine.