Does Science Agree With the Bible?

[freezerman2000]

Please calm down the rhetoric..

 

[AV1611VET]

Please calm down the rhetoric..

I'd hate to see this thread closed after almost 2000 posts!

 

[freezerman2000]

I'd hate to see this thread closed after almost 2000 posts!

So would I

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

"Thou shalt not kill; but needst not strive
Officiously to keep alive:" Arthur Hugh Clough

Applies to threads too

 

[dad]

I've tried, as have others. But you've demonstrated many times that you aren't interested in actually learning how science works. Why should I or anyone else continue trying to show you if you have no interest in actually learning?

What you provide is beliefs dressed as science. One cannot help but kick them to the curb.

 

[dad]

Of course. And that's the problem, isn't it? You demand I provide my part of the bargain before you fulfill your part, but what you demand of me is to be more willing to believe your part!

It don't work that way.

Scripture is not my part of the bargain it is God's. It does work that way.

Actually, it can. I have tried, along with others, to explain this to you, but you don't seem to have any interest in learning what science actually is or how it actually works.

Actually you cannot begin to in the least way. Nothing you ever say that I remember does not involve first assuming a present nature.

There are lots of different kinds of birds, and yet we don't have the sparrowists who claim the birds are small with sweet songs and a penchant for insects. We don't have egretists who claim birds are larger, white and eat fish. We don't have ostrichists who claim that birds have shaggy feathers, long legs and run very fast and never fly.

The many different kinds of birds do not cause contradictory statements about what a bird is. So why do the many different kinds of spirits cause contradictory statements about what spirituality is?

Simple, because most are liars.

PMSL! You really DON'T know what science is!

Tell us then, so we may all learn what your opinion is.

Reality is everywhere. Maybe you could open your eyes and actually see it for yourself.

You used the word reality again, that is a crime against the species.. Reality of the past happens to include the fact most people record spirits existed in a real way.

 

[katerinah1947]

What you provide is beliefs dressed as science. One cannot help but kick them to the curb.

Hi,

I certainly hope she is not going on blind faith.

In science, the researchy kind, Faith is not allowed.

I am a research type. I was not, and none of us were, allowed to take things on faith.

Maybe our definitions are clashing here. What definition of faith, are you using?

LOVE,

 

[dad]

Hi,

I certainly hope she is not going on blind faith.

Ask her to prove that the state or forces and laws were the same in the past, and I will show you.

In science, the researchy kind, Faith is not allowed.

That is a pipe dream though, because faith underpins so much of what is called science, particularly science dealing in origins and creation issues. They only go there by faith and faith alone.

I am a research type. I was not, and none of us were, allowed to take things on faith.

Then you did not deal in origins issues.

Maybe our definitions are clashing here. What definition of faith, are you using?

That means believing without proof or solid fact or real evidence.

 

[Kylie]

What you provide is beliefs dressed as science. One cannot help but kick them to the curb.

Maybe one day you'll surprise me and do MORE than just spout opinion.

Until then, it's just the same old same old...

 

[katerinah1947]

Ask her to prove that the state or forces and laws were the same in the past, and I will show you.
That is a pipe dream though, because faith underpins so much of what is called science, particularly science dealing in origins and creation issues. They only go there by faith and faith alone.
Then you did not deal in origins issues.
That means believing without proof or solid fact or real evidence.

Hi,

Our definitions of blind faith are identical.

I also have something I define as Faith Plus God.

Origin issues, do not sound at all like science to me.

Geology, Astronomy, and several other things are and sound like science to me.

I have never yet heard of Origin Science. Have you?

As far as for faith underpinning so many science issues, I also have never seen that.

If I am right, and my proof of why I am right, if that fails, then the scientists, consider that as me failing.

Yes, that is a personal experience. The next team, did not fail, on the proof, and I was right.

And, if anyone says that science has proven that The Bible is wrong, and if they are actual scientists, they won't be for long, and never really were.

Scientists, like two I know of now, in another field that overlaps religion, are being slowly removed from their jobs.

Those scientists lied, and have not recanted, but have huge sets of credentials, that made non scientist believe much of what they said for the last several years.

In your first item, I am no creationist, as the term is used.

I am not actually allowed to say many things if I don't have data, or a proof.

My Genesis 1:28 subdue the earth training and experience to do that for God, did allow me to use science on the Bible.

In that, I did have to look at Genesis, but in an research way, which requires always data and proofs.

Really, I never found a contradiction any where between proven science, and proven Biblical Information.

And, I did do The Proof, For The Bible. It turned out, being objective here, that by proof, The Bible is Real.

It took science to do that Proof, and it took God to allow that proof to be done, but also to show me how to do that proof.

Never, did I go outside of science though, while doing those five controlled experiments, or any of the previous work.

I would have liked to have said something though.

I did not, as it wasn't allowed, if I didn't understand it, nor could teach it to others, as a proof of my understandings.

LOVE,

 

[Kylie]

Scripture is not my part of the bargain it is God's. It does work that way.

So God gave it to you himself? Or did you need a priest or minister to give it to you? Did God read the Bible to you, or did you have parents who told you the Bible is true?

Actually you cannot begin to in the least way. Nothing you ever say that I remember does not involve first assuming a present nature.

You don't get it, do you?

Assume X is true. If X is true, it also implies A, B, C and D.
Go and investigate reality, find A, B, C and D.
This is evidence that X is true. Because if X was not true, how did we get A, B, C and D? X is the simplest explanation for A, B, C and D.

Simple, because most are liars.

OF COURSE! All spirits are liars, EXCEPT for the ones that tell you what you want to believe! That PROVES that they're correct!

"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."
"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."
"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."

Repeat ad nauseum. (Doncha love circular logic?)

Tell us then, so we may all learn what your opinion is.

Already told you, and you ignored it. I'm not going to waste my time. Perhaps if you had shown even the slighest bit of actual curiosity, but you haven't. I don't think you have any interest in learning about how the world works. All I think you want to do is go around shoving your beliefs at people and then using strawmen against them when they try to show you the truth.

You used the word reality again, that is a crime against the species.. Reality of the past happens to include the fact most people record spirits existed in a real way.

Produce a spirit for me. Perhaps if you pray hard enough, God will send one for me to experience.

But I won't hold my breath.

 

[dad]

Maybe one day you'll surprise me and do MORE than just spout opinion.

Until then, it's just the same old same old...

I will try...when you post something we can get our teeth into.

 

[dad]

Hi,

Our definitions of blind faith are identical.

I also have something I define as Faith Plus God.

Origin issues, do not sound at all like science to me.

Geology, Astronomy, and several other things are and sound like science to me.

Well, that includes origins of the universe and big bang theory, as well as evolution and shared ancestors etc etc.

I have never yet heard of Origin Science. Have you?

Any science branch that claims to deal in early hostory of earth, human origins, evolution, standard cosmology, and etc.

As far as for faith underpinning so many science issues, I also have never seen that.

Yes, the idea that our physics existed is part of science. They assume the present is the key to the past.

If I am right, and my proof of why I am right, if that fails, then the scientists, consider that as me failing.

Yes, that is a personal experience. The next team, did not fail, on the proof, and I was right.

You were in what field?

And, if anyone says that science has proven that The Bible is wrong, and if they are actual scientists, they won't be for long, and never really were.

Posters here who claim to be deeply involved with science claim the bible is wrong all the time.

Scientists, like two I know of now, in another field that overlaps religion, are being slowly removed from their jobs.

Those scientists lied, and have not recanted, but have huge sets of credentials, that made non scientist believe much of what they said for the last several years.

I must have missed this purge..?

In your first item, I am no creationist, as the term is used.

So the bible is wrong?

My Genesis 1:28 subdue the earth training and experience to do that for God, did allow me to use science on the Bible.

Using science with the bible is good.

Really, I never found a contradiction any where between proven science, and proven Biblical Information.

Me either...except there is no proven science for early human life from monkeys or apes. or for a big bang.

And, I did do The Proof, For The Bible. It turned out, being objective here, that by proof, The Bible is Real.

It took science to do that Proof, and it took God to allow that proof to be done, but also to show me how to do that proof.

Never, did I go outside of science though, while doing those five controlled experiments, or any of the previous work.

If you never went outside of physical only little fishbowl science your results were very limited.

I would have liked to have said something though.

I did not, as it wasn't allowed, if I didn't understand it, nor could teach it to others, as a proof of my understandings.

LOVE,

If you didn't understand it better to say nothing!

 

[dad]

So God gave it to you himself? Or did you need a priest or minister to give it to you? Did God read the Bible to you, or did you have parents who told you the Bible is true?

Neither. I got saved, and started to be aware of the bible.

You don't get it, do you?

Assume X is true. If X is true, it also implies A, B, C and D.
Go and investigate reality, find A, B, C and D.
This is evidence that X is true. Because if X was not true, how did we get A, B, C and D? X is the simplest explanation for A, B, C and D.

If any of those letters involve the former times and nature you investigate squat.

OF COURSE! All spirits are liars, EXCEPT for the ones that tell you what you want to believe!

Precisely. Beware.

1Jo 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

That is the name of the game.

"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."
"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."
"How do you know they are correct?"
"Because they tell me what I believe to be true."
"How do you know that what you believe to be true actually is true?"
"Because the spirits told me so."

Repeat ad nauseum. (Doncha love circular logic?)

Ac 1:3 - To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:


All you have is many baseless doubts!

I don't think you have any interest in learning about how the world works.

Which one, this one, the former nature or the future world? You limited perspective amounts to fishbowl philosophy.

Produce a spirit for me.

You would need to be able to recognize it.

Perhaps if you pray hard enough, God will send one for me to experience.

But I won't hold my breath.

God is a spirit, and we all meet Him one day.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi, (most edits done now)

Well, that includes origins of the universe and big bang theory, as well as evolution and shared ancestors etc etc.
Any science branch that claims to deal in early hostory of earth, human origins, evolution, standard cosmology, and etc.

No comment yet.

Yes, the idea that our physics existed is part of science. They assume the present is the key to the past.

None, of my kind, are allowed, to do, say or use anything, that we do not personally understand., And, a test of that understanding, for us internally, is can I teach, what I think I know.

The limitations on that verbally, are much on the job.

Off the job, I get to be as rigid or as flamboyant verbally as I wish to be.

However, all of us, off the job, are like we are on the job, with one exception.

We don't demand that others are like us.

~So, far on the issue of Genesis 1:28, of God demanding that we do science, and Romans 13:1-5, God demanding that we use science~ I have never been asked to look at variations in 'What God Has Done' in the past, with Physics, and 'What God Has Done' with Physics, today.

Nor, have I yet been asked to look at those same issues, in different parts of the known and unknown parts of the universe.

I just did though, and it is off topic, and I can't teach it yet.

You were in what field?

Researchers jump and move a lot, unless their research ever falls into the category of what everyone wants and needs, then they stay or go back to their previous research, until enough people have their questions answered.

My degree was in EE, Electrical Engineering. Within three months of Graduation, I was working for Fairchild Reseach and Development in Los Altos California.

It was Advanced Research, meaning that they worked on things and ideas that did not exist in the world yet.

My God given talent in this area, is that I am what is called, sometimes, a natural in Research. I don't have to work at research techniques and ways, they are in me all of the time.

Idiot Savant. Autodidactic. Are two other names that apply to civilians.

In Religion, I am called Graced. God has even, proved that, to me using standard science, ~a controlled experiment~

I do mean, God forced me to do a controlled experiment involving my research abilities, with me being totally unaware that I was doing a controlled experiment.

The initial results were, it is God not me. With time though, it is Jesus, and one other, that is way way way too much in abstruse-land, to do anything more than overload your senses now, as it involves a way in which God imparts wisdom to us.


Semiconductors. Most of my time was spent on Semicondutors. I was part of the third generation of Researchers there.

I now research other things. I and others like me, are done. Their and our information, is contained in about five books. Semiconductor Processing for the VLSI era.

Posters here who claim to be deeply involved with science claim the bible is wrong all the time.

Yes. I have seen that.

I must have missed this purge..?

It's within the field. We don't get released by God to the public much.

So the bible is wrong?

In advanced research terms, NO.

Using science with the bible is good.

Yes. It's Romans 13:1-5. That is where God told all of us to use the science, that He had is do.

Me either...except there is no proven science for early human life from monkeys or apes. or for a big bang.

No comment, yet.

If you never went outside of physical only little fishbowl science your results were very limited.

Advanced Research has no limits, in what is researchable. We have no limits, in who we consult.

All boundaries are crossed. Even, your God, allows access to Himself, if Real science needs it.

Science is after all is said and done, just following a Command of God., Genesis 1:28., Subdue the earth.

If you didn't understand it better to say nothing!

Rather than being better, it is a requirement, in research experiments and data collection (observations that are accurate recorded with calibrations so others can actually duplicate and understand the work)

LOVE,

 

[dad]

None, of my kind, are allowed, to do, say or use anything, that we do not personally understand., And, a test of that understanding, for us internally, is can I teach, what I think I know.

Maybe one day we'll find out what you know, when you teach it.

The limitations on that verbally, are much on the job.

Off the job, I get to be as rigid or as flamboyant verbally as I wish to be.

However, all of us, off the job, are like we are on the job, with one exception.

We don't demand that others are like us.

No worries, here folks mostly just like posts, or not.

~So, far on the issue of Genesis 1:28, of God demanding that we do science, and Romans 13:1-5, God demanding that we use science~ I have never been asked to look at variations in 'What God Has Done' in the past, with Physics, and 'What God Has Done' with Physics, today.

What God will do in the new earth is different in nature than the nature and laws we have today. Likewise the past of Adam and Noah's day was different. Not sure how you think science could look into it.

Nor, have I yet been asked to look at those same issues, in different parts of the known and unknown parts of the universe.

Again, no one was ever far from earth, so it is above the paygrade of science of the world.

Researchers jump and move a lot, unless their research ever falls into the category of what everyone wants and needs, then they stay or go back to their previous research, until enough people have their questions answered.

Assuming that the abilities, knowledge and tools they have are sufficient to cover it.

My degree was in EE, Electrical Engineering. Within three months of Graduation, I was working for Fairchild Reseach and Development in Los Altos California.

It was Advanced Research, meaning that they worked on things and ideas that did not exist in the world yet.

OK, so did any start to exist later? If so...what were they...if not..I guess it doesn't much matter.

Idiot Savant. Autodidactic. Are two other names that apply to civilians.

Common sense, simple trust in God, may be a few terms that the so called science would be gods can't measure up to.

Semiconductors. Most of my time was spent on Semicondutors. I was part of the third generation of Researchers there.

OK so that has nothing to do with claiming anything about the origin of life or the universe.

It's within the field. We don't get released by God to the public much.

Released by God?

Yes. It's Romans 13:1-5. That is where God told all of us to use the science, that He had is do.

God is not telling us to use so called science that claims we are beasts, and there was no creation there.

Advanced Research has no limits, in what is researchable. We have no limits, in who we consult.

Yes, you are limited by physics, time, space all sorts of things.

Science is after all is said and done, just following a Command of God., Genesis 1:28., Subdue the earth.

To move out and populate the earth really does not mean that men must do science, especially false science.

 

[katerinah1947]

What God will do in the new earth is different in nature than the nature and laws we have today. Likewise the past of Adam and Noah's day was different. Not sure how you think science could look into it.
Again, no one was ever far from earth, so it is above the paygrade of science of the world.

Assuming that the abilities, knowledge and tools they have are sufficient to cover it.
OK, so did any start to exist later? If so...what were they...if not..I guess it doesn't much matter.

Common sense, simple trust in God, may be a few terms that the so called science would be gods can't measure up to.

OK so that has nothing to do with claiming anything about the origin of life or the universe.

Released by God?

God is not telling us to use so called science that claims we are beasts, and there was no creation there.

Yes, you are limited by physics, time, space all sorts of things.

To move out and populate the earth really does not mean that men must do science, especially false science.

Hi,

Using your vernacular, what you said is above the pay grade of science, is not above my "pay grade".

And, why in the world did you ask me if anything that did not exist when I was working in science then, exists now?

Yes. Many things exist now, that did not exist then. Cameras that see at night. IS ONE.

The iPhone, the microprocessor that allows them to exist never existed before, we did that work, required by God.

Released by God? Yes.

It is rare, for a person
like me to ever exit science for any reason.

We typically die in science without anyone but books and papers ever knowing that we existed.

What keeps us there is beauty.

Beauty is of God. It's a feature of His.

In science, that beauty is overwhelming.

It is just what one would expect, if Subdue The Earth was a Command from God.

The Universe, the known and unknown parts of that, and it's connection to Jesus, do want that AT MY PAY GRADE?

When I talk about science, and God, yes it is very much from my pay grade. So is using science, at what you might call my pay grade.

My position, on Creation, is whatever God actually did is fine with me.

One, of the things God did, was to have a whole bunch of people, listen to what He said.

Over the years all that was supposedly said was put into books.

Genesis alone, is 300 to 400 pages thick, the last time I looked.

Each book of the Bible, seems to have many documents, written.

Those were sorted out, and what we have is the results of that, or about 1/17th, of all that exists, that was written.

If I know anything more correctly than you do, does that bother you?

LOVE,

 

[dad]

Hi,

Using your vernacular, what you said is above the pay grade of science, is not above my "pay grade".

And, why in the world did you ask me if anything that did not exist when I was working in science then, exists now?

Yes. Many things exist now, that did not exist then. Cameras that see at night. IS ONE.

The iPhone, the microprocessor that allows them to exist never existed before, we did that work, required by God.

Released by God? Yes.

It is rare, for a person
like me to ever exit science for any reason.

We typically die in science without anyone but books and papers ever knowing that we existed.

What keeps us there is beauty.

Beauty is of God. It's a feature of His.

In science, that beauty is overwhelming.

It is just what one would expect, if Subdue The Earth was a Command from God.

Science is not what was meant by subdue the earth, and the command to subdue was before the fall! I don't think man really can subdue in the way we could have before, and science was not the reason why we could subdue it before!

The Universe, the known and unknown parts of that, and it's connection to Jesus, do want that AT MY PAY GRADE?

Sure...baby steps.

When I talk about science, and God, yes it is very much from my pay grade. So is using science, at what you might call my pay grade.

Unless you can prove to us that the laws were the same in the early earth, that is beyond your little realm of knowledge.

My position, on Creation, is whatever God actually did is fine with me.

He told us what He did.

One, of the things God did, was to have a whole bunch of people, listen to what He said.

Over the years all that was supposedly said was put into books.

Genesis alone, is 300 to 400 pages thick, the last time I looked.

Each book of the Bible, seems to have many documents, written.

Those were sorted out, and what we have is the results of that, or about 1/17th, of all that exists, that was written.

If I know anything more correctly than you do, does that bother you?

Not if you post it so I can check.
.

 

[katerinah1947]

Well, thank you again katerinah1947, but in answer to your last sentence: "Does this make sense?", the answer - I'm sorry to say - is no! You don't seem to have directly addressed my questions, but worse than that, I can't quite follow what you're saying. Now this may well be a shortcoming on my part, but, if you'll forgive me being so frank, to me at least your reply is something of a ramble, rather than specific, lucid and comprehensible. And of course you have in no way adequately demonstrated that "...there is actually no one who does not believe in God". Perhaps it may be best to discontinue this exchange, as I don't see any likelihood of anything constructive or instructive coming out of it.

Best wishes, nonetheless.

Olaf.

Hi,

It's not a ramble to me. I know exactly what I meant. To me, I answered your question, precisely and in detail.

I believe your views of it also, that it rambles to you.

It might not be you. At work, I was asked to perform. I don't think they understood me either, and thinking about it now, some of them had Ph.D.'s. So, there should not be a problem, considering.

Are you familiar with the concept of 1:1, Correlations? Or, are you only familiar with studies?

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Science is not what was meant by subdue the earth, and the command to subdue was before the fall! I don't think man really can subdue in the way we could have before, and science was not the reason why we could subdue it before!
Sure...baby steps.
Unless you can prove to us that the laws were the same in the early earth, that is beyond your little realm of knowledge.
He told us what He did.
Not if you post it so I can check.
.

Hi,

God, never took back, Subdue The Earth.

Just like he never took back what He said about Adam and Eve.

The earth cannot be subdued, nor subdued without solving problems.

Solving problems, requires science.

Filling the earth requires science to provide, food shelter and clothing.

The earth has to be subdued to fill it, not that it was ever taken back by God, those words, in Genesis 1:28.

I actually, briefly considered your Laws Question, from varying parts of The Universe, from my "Pay Grade", which includes, being able to still go there, at the end of the tunnel from the source of Creation, to almost the end of Creation, where the earth now is.

I cannot sense nor claim, anything about time, nor a lot of things, that I thought I could say.

I didn't comment about it, because I don't know, after going there during our last talk. I wrote much, in anticipation of reassuring you that you were wrong about any things not being the same, in all parts of universe. After going there and feeling and looking, I erased those parts. I did, because it may be true, and it may not be true, as all things for Creation, come from that source, through that tunnel, to here.

Baby steps: God Did Some major to me, stuff.
Baby steps: My permissions with God changed, when I said YES!, one day.
I said YES!, in late 2007.

LOVE,

The Anchor Bible Commentary Series:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_Bible_Series


JEPD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

LOVE,