Yes dear. Happy wife, happy life and other terms...

Dave-W

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It is spelled out in the Mishnah and later the Talmuds. (tractate "Ketubot")

It is also supported by the Marriage Contracts that have been found from the era. Since their wording is roughly similar (with some regional variations) to what is in the Mishnah, you can take it that was what the practice was in the Jewish Diaspora communities in the first century.
 
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All4Christ

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It is spelled out in the Mishnah and later the Talmuds. (tractate "Ketubot")

It is also supported by the Marriage Contracts that have been found from the era. Since their wording is roughly similar (with some regional variations) to what is in the Mishnah, you can take it that was what the practice was in the Jewish Diaspora communities in the first century.
I am not an expert on this - but I believe there were some changes promoted by Rabbinic law that gave more rights to women as opposed to the laws found in the time of Deuteronomy. I could very well be wrong though, as it has been awhile since I looked at that.
 
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mkgal1

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Except for the fact that Paul started off preaching in the synagogue; and he was followed by Apollos who also preached to Jews. Ephesus had a LARGE Jewish component to the congregation.

I believe what's being asserted is that Christ's teaching (which couldn't be in opposition to the Torah, since He came to fulfill the Torah--not abolish it) was counter-cultural to the area. Ephesus wasn't ---as a culture---living out the Torah....it was largely known for the Temple of Artemis.
 
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Dave-W

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I am not an expert on this - but I believe there were some changes promoted by Rabbinic law that gave more rights to women as opposed to the laws found in the time of Deuteronomy.
That is my understanding as well. But remember, the rise of Rabbinic authority came after the Maccabean revolt of the 160s bc. It really took off in the first century bc with rabbis Hillel and Shammai who started the 2 main schools of Pharasaism in Jerusalem. It is possible that when Our Lord visited the Temple at age 12 one or both of these 2 men were in attendance. They both died a short time later. (BTW, Hillel was grandfather to Gamaliel the Great, Paul's mentor) Those schools trained the rabbis for all the diaspora synagogues throughout the Roman Empire.

So what these men taught was already established by the time Paul came around.
 
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Dave-W

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I believe what's being asserted is that Christ's teaching (which couldn't be in opposition to the Torah, since He came to fulfill the Torah--not abolish it) was counter-cultural to the area. Ephesus wasn't ---as a culture---living out the Torah....it was largely known for the Temple of Artemis.
Indeed. Even today the preaching of the cross is countercultural even to may self-described Christians.

My point is that while Paul's message may have seemed very odd (counter-cultural) to the unsaved around them, it would not have been so in the congregation except perhaps to new gentile believers just coming in.
 
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mkgal1

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Indeed. Even today the preaching of the cross is countercultural even to may self-described Christians.


You are SO right about that.

My point is that while Paul's message may have seemed very odd (counter-cultural) to the unsaved around them, it would not have been so in the congregation except perhaps to new gentile believers just coming in.
Okay....I get you now, but since this was written to the church at Ephesus, I'd expect it to be mainly counter-cultural to their mindset (especially considering what they were surrounded by as far as the worship of false gods being so pervasive in that area).
 
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RedPonyDriver

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My husband said "yes dear" last night after he grabbed more than his share of the covers and I fussed at him. The result was a 10 minute giggle-fest. The cats were not pleased.
 
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So since feminism can be a popular subject around here I was curious about this. Whats the view of the "Yes dear" thing?

I've seen couples of all kinds (christian, non-christian...etc) disagree on feminism stuff, but yet all (men) openly will say typical lines like "Yes dear!" or "Happy wife, happy life!". And I realize maybe some of them are being a bit silly, BUT there is always some truth to when someone says those things. So what do you think of these sayings?

Do you think the wife really should be/is the head of the "roost" so to speak? Or do you think most mean it to be funny? And where do you think this falls when it comes to the topic of feminism? I've never been into a marriage where either spouse has more say then the other (despite my rants on here sometimes). I like the equality thing. But I get bugged by men who treat their women like slaves and let them have no voice. And bugged by women who think its funny their husband tends to let them do whatever they want because they can be bossy/play with his emotions(aka happy wife, happy life).

If you notice though you never see any of those slogans from women about men. Like happy hubby, lots of grubby!". Thoughts?
Both my husband and I say "yes dear" to each other with a certain intonation. I didn't get the memo that it was supposed to be men saying it to their wives. I haven't heard the other saying, but it sounds like it is suggesting that a "wife" will make life miserable if she isn't happy, and that's just stupid. We all go through days/times/hours when we aren't "happy" but that doesn't mean we should make everyone else unhappy, or that others should be so highly affected by one person's unhappiness. I can see that it puts the wife at the center of life, and that gives her far, far too much responsibility! So a wife should never be unhappy unless she makes everyone miserable? Too much responsibility on everyone else too! That's not a saying in my home.

My husband and I are equal partners in everything. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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My wife is a feminine as they come. She always treats me with respect (even when I don't deserve it) and she never tries to steer the ship (even when I've left the wheelhouse for a few moments). She never nags me, even when 100 women would have.

What feminists and nagging dripping faucets don't understand is this: I almost always give my wife the preference. I let her have her way. Not because I'm trying to keep her happy to keep the peace, but because she makes me happy. I love her, and I desire for her to have a full and wonderful life.

In the end, she gets more from me - she gets the world from me because I know that she will NOT fight me for this that or the other. She will love and respect me even if I go against her wishes, so, when I think it best for our family, I give her her wishes; however, if she were a nag, I would likely not give in much. Her submission gains her 100 fold over what any feminist power-grab would have.
 
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blessedwife318

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I hate the joke, Happy wife, happy life. The implication here is that it is the job of the husband to keep his wife happy and if she is not happy, there will be hell to pay. Proverbs makes it very clear how much control the wife has over the emotional stability of the house. Just look at all the places that are better then a nagging wife. Now for me I figure the responsibility is on me to control my own emotions. I'm an adult after all. It is not my husbands job to make me happy. His job is to lead the household and love me as Christ does the church. My job it to submit to his leadership. There is nothing in Eph. about making the wife feel happy and of course on the flip side there is nothing about making me submit either. That is on me. When the wife uses her emotions to try and rule the household, she is going against the wisdom of Proverbs and the command of Ephesians.
 
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ValleyGal

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Emotions are contagious. If my husband is unhappy, I am affected by that, and if I am unhappy, then he is affected by that. I want both of us to be happy, so I do what I can to make us both happy. Owning cats makes my husband happy; I got him a cat. Dogs make me happy; he gave me a dog.

As for nagging, if a husband loves his wife sacrificially, then she will not have to nag - he will do as she asks the first time.
 
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Neal82

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So since feminism can be a popular subject around here I was curious about this. Whats the view of the "Yes dear" thing?

I've seen couples of all kinds (christian, non-christian...etc) disagree on feminism stuff, but yet all (men) openly will say typical lines like "Yes dear!" or "Happy wife, happy life!". And I realize maybe some of them are being a bit silly, BUT there is always some truth to when someone says those things. So what do you think of these sayings?

Do you think the wife really should be/is the head of the "roost" so to speak? Or do you think most mean it to be funny? And where do you think this falls when it comes to the topic of feminism? I've never been into a marriage where either spouse has more say then the other (despite my rants on here sometimes). I like the equality thing. But I get bugged by men who treat their women like slaves and let them have no voice. And bugged by women who think its funny their husband tends to let them do whatever they want because they can be bossy/play with his emotions(aka happy wife, happy life).

If you notice though you never see any of those slogans from women about men. Like happy hubby, lots of grubby!". Thoughts?

My wife's happiness is important to me, as is her fulfillment of purpose. It's just as important to her that I am happy and fulfilled. I've never said "yes, dear" except in jest a time or two. I'd never patronize her. We're partners in life. We are equals, and it's not something that is a struggle in our relationship. Both of us were raised with parents who also had equality in their marriage which I think has made it smoother sailing for us in ours.
 
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blessedwife318

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Emotions are contagious. If my husband is unhappy, I am affected by that, and if I am unhappy, then he is affected by that. I want both of us to be happy, so I do what I can to make us both happy. Owning cats makes my husband happy; I got him a cat. Dogs make me happy; he gave me a dog.

As for nagging, if a husband loves his wife sacrificially, then she will not have to nag - he will do as she asks the first time.

Nagging is the wife sin. Again we are adults and are responsible for our actions. A husband does not cause his wife to nag, she makes that choice.

I hate this narrative that is so prevalent in today's society that if the wife is unhappy its always the husband's fault. The he did not do everything she asked, didn't make her feel happy, didn't make her feel listened too, etc. Women are adults and responsible for their own feelings. They can be just as much the problem in a marriage as the husband.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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I've read many of these threads and I don't see a testimony to Christian marriage. Men demanding this or that and railing against feminists, women feeling alone and abandoned...

"Yes dear" and other phrases are hard to come by in our home. If it is said, its as a joke. I don't nag, he doesn't demand. The "to do" list and the grocery list is on the fridge. Both of us are capable of doing housework, cooking, whatever...
For a successful marriage, check your ego at the door.
 
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ValleyGal

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Nagging is the wife sin. Again we are adults and are responsible for our actions. A husband does not cause his wife to nag, she makes that choice.
I can understand why women do it, though. Take a husband who refuses to get a job even though he is perfectly capable of getting one and maintaining it, and yet he either procrastinates or thinks he doesn't need to. I can see how eventually, she would start to nag because it is a need only he can fill. I'm not saying nagging is right, but it might be a natural response to extensive procrastination, laziness, etc on the part of the one nagged. That makes both of them wrong, not just the nagging wife. No wife would ever have to nag if husbands did what is necessary in their marriage. Just like no husband would have to nag if his wife did what is necessary in their marriage. Wives are not the only ones who nag.

I hate this narrative that is so prevalent in today's society that if the wife is unhappy its always the husband's fault. The he did not do everything she asked, didn't make her feel happy, didn't make her feel listened too, etc. Women are adults and responsible for their own feelings. They can be just as much the problem in a marriage as the husband.
I don't think there are many people at all who blame their spouse for their own unhappiness. Those ones who blame their spouses are likely in very unhealthy relationships. After all, blaming others is a character defect.

However, the interaction between a husband and wife is mutually influential. If my husband is happy, I would like to think I had a part in creating that happiness. That comes at a price, though. If he is unhappy, I need to ask myself - and often, him - if I had any part in his unhappiness. But knowing that I can influence how my husband feels does not absolve him of taking responsibility for his own happiness. It is up to him to be honest with me if I ask him whether I've done anything to upset him. It is up to him to have good boundaries where if I'm doing something he doesn't like and it's unlikely to change, then he needs to figure out how to best respond to it. It is up to him to communicate with me about the things that are going on in his life so we can create a mutually happy life together. This also goes both ways.

Happiness - we have a genetic baseline for happiness, which accounts for 50% of our happiness level. It's our default level of perceived happiness. Another 10% of our happiness level is based on circumstances and is therefore fluid. Iow, I can cook my husband's favourite meal and that increases his happiness by say 2% for the rest of the evening, but then by morning he returns to his baseline. So far, that's 60% of our happiness level. This means we can control the other 40%. That dinner I cooked for my husband - he has the internal power to say "she made my favourite meal; therefore, she loves me" OR he can say "she made my favourite meal; therefore, she must want something from me" and be all suspicious. One thought will make him happy and the other thought will not. But that does not change the fact that I made his favourite meal and he is going to enjoy it. There are several factors in how we can increase our overall sense of happiness, btw:
Optimistic
Savor life
Spiritual
Have goals
Helpful
Have good social support
Gratitude

If being helpful increases happiness, then if a husband helps around the house, does things for his wife, etc, then the term "happy wife, happy life" is actually true! Why? Because not only is it helpful, but in turn, she will likely be a good social support for him, he will be more optimistic, etc.... see how it is all mutually influential? Not only is it mutually influential, but he has then taken responsibility for his own happiness by helping his wife in the first place, and she will not feel like she has to nag.

It may not be our responsibility to make our spouse happy, but I believe it IS my responsibility to be a factor in his happiness, even if it is a small amount. I also believe it is partly our responsibility to not make our spouse UNhappy. Iow, if you care about someone, you care about their happiness and well being more than your own. If my husband doesn't feel heard, then it's up to him to communicate that to me, and up to me to work on my listening skills. If my husband feels neglected, he needs to communicate that to me and up to me to spend time with him. Etc. I would work on those areas for no other reason than I care about my spouse and want the best for him. It is not in his best interest to feel neglected or unheard. Same goes for men towards their wives... it is mutual, and yes, we do have some influence over our spouse's feelings.
 
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mkgal1

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As for nagging, if a husband loves his wife sacrificially, then she will not have to nag - he will do as she asks the first time.

I just wanted to clarify this a bit. I'm pretty certain VG didn't mean this is as describing a wife as a dictator (b/c I *have* met those kinds of women that can be responsible for giving this stereotype *some* credibility---keeping a looming threat over the rest of the family). I believe she meant that if a husband weren't dismissive of a wife's requests there wouldn't be any "nagging". It's all about teamwork---where BOTH spouses are heard and have agency.
 
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