7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

[BABerean2]

The church is not the messiah.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus Christ is the rock upon which the Church is built, as revealed by the scripture above.


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I am a little surprised to hear any Christian say the passage above has nothing to do with the Church, especially considering that Daniel chapter 9 reveals the time that Jesus would come as the Messiah.

Luk_19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Christ held the Jewish leadership accountable for not knowing the time of His first coming.
.

 

[Douggg]

I am a little surprised to hear any Christian say the passage above has nothing to do with the Church, especially considering that Daniel chapter 9 reveals the time that Jesus would come as the Messiah.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on the church.

 

[BABerean2]

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on the church.

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
.

 

[Douggg]

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on the church.

 

[BABerean2]

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on the church.

Great Errors in Dispensational/Kingdom Theology: Pastor John Otis

 

[BABerean2]

Daniel's 70 Weeks: Pastor John Otis

 

[tranquil]

Berean, you didn't refute anything I posted.

It is 70 weeks to seal the prophet (not 'prophecy' as the translation you use mistranslates it), and to anoint the most holy.

This is 70 weeks (starting from the 69th 'shabua' / shavuot/ Pentecost) to get to the point where Zerubabbel and Joshua are sealed/ anointed respectively. Once they are sealed/ anointed, they prophecy for 3.5 'days', then are told to "come up here".

The starting point of the "7 year covenant" that is broken is at the end of the 1st 70 weeks period/ same time as the start of the 1st half of the 7 years. Strictly speaking, there is no '7 year trib'.

 

[BABerean2]

Berean, you didn't refute anything I posted.

It is 70 weeks to seal the prophet (not 'prophecy' as the translation you use mistranslates it), and to anoint the most holy.

This is 70 weeks (starting from the 69th 'shabua' / shavuot/ Pentecost) to get to the point where Zerubabbel and Joshua are sealed/ anointed respectively. Once they are sealed/ anointed, they prophecy for 3.5 'days', then are told to "come up here".

The starting point of the "7 year covenant" that is broken is at the end of the 1st 70 weeks period/ same time as the start of the 1st half of the 7 years. Strictly speaking, there is no '7 year trib'.

Are you saying the covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34 or the covenant with many in Matthew 26:28?
.

 

[Hazrus]

Berean, you didn't refute anything I posted.

It is 70 weeks to seal the prophet (not 'prophecy' as the translation you use mistranslates it), and to anoint the most holy.

This is 70 weeks (starting from the 69th 'shabua' / shavuot/ Pentecost) to get to the point where Zerubabbel and Joshua are sealed/ anointed respectively. Once they are sealed/ anointed, they prophecy for 3.5 'days', then are told to "come up here".

The starting point of the "7 year covenant" that is broken is at the end of the 1st 70 weeks period/ same time as the start of the 1st half of the 7 years. Strictly speaking, there is no '7 year trib'.

What translation do you use, Tranquil?
EDIT - - - never mind. it uses "prophet" in the translation I use most (ESV).

 

[Douggg]

Are you saying the covenant confirmed with many in Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34 or the covenant with many in Matthew 26:28?
.

Of course Daniel 9:27 has to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34 - because the Jews believe that the new covenant actually means a "renewal of the Mt. Sinai" covenant. Which in practical terms will be by the Antichrist going through the ceremony of confirming the covenant for the 7 year cycle.

I might also note that Jesus at his first coming corresponded to the spring feasts (of the Mt. Sinai covenant).

At Jesus's Second Coming, there is reason to think that it will correspond to the fall feasts. Which the day of Atonement is one of those. Which, if you read Daniel 9:27, the last week (7 years) begin when the prince who shall come (Judaism's "real messiah" ), the little horn person, is embraced by Jews as the messiah, confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

It is at that event, the person officially becomes the Antichrist, the perceived King of Israel messiah, instead of Jesus (God come into the world) the rightful king. 1Samuel12:12, God was the king of Israel - until Israel rejected Him as their king. And demanded a man-king like the other nations.

Back to the Antichrist, and how he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. He does that overseeing the reading of the law to the nation of Israel "from the temple mount". Where that comes from is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, Moses made a requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle. It has to be done on the feast of tabernacles - also a fall feast.

But the reading also has to be done from the place of God's choosing - which Jews currently take to be the temple mount - currently controlled by Muslims. So it can't be done until after Gog/Magog - which just so happens to correspond to Judaism's (by many) take on the messianic era.

So here is what you got when comparing Judaism's (by many) messianic time of peace to Christianity's (by many) view of the same forthcoming time:

Judaism's view: Gog/Magog. Then the messianic era of peace.

Christian view: Gog/Magog. Then a 7 year period. Then Armageddon. Then the messianic era of peace.

It is really that simple, comparing the two views of what is forthcoming.

If a person is not knowledgeable about the Jews and their (mis)beliefs and (mis)expectations - a person cannot understand the end times prophecies, because they go hand in hand.

 

[BABerean2]

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem.

This part of your statement is correct.

The 70 weeks prophecy is an unbroken 490 year event which foretold of the Coming Messiah and His taking the Gospel first to the Jewish people.


Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


This was done through His ministry of 1/2 week and through His disciples who continued to take the Gospel to the Jews for another 1/2 week, up until the time Stephen was stoned. After that the Gospel was taken also to the Gentiles.

Since the angel Gabriel did not mention a "gap" in the prophecy, it ended in the first century.

The idea that God is going to go back to the obsolete Sinai covenant (Hebrews 8:13) during a future 70th week of Daniel is a perversion of the New Covenant promise foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and found fulfilled at Hebrews 8:6. The New Blood Covenant of Christ (Matthew 26:28) is everlasting and therefore cannot end, in Hebrews 13:20.

The 70 weeks prophecy was determined for Daniel's people and was fulfilled to the letter, since Christ fulfilled everything in Daniel 9:24. He sealed it up. It is finished.


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The only way to see the 70th week of Daniel, would be with a time machine.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

Based on Jeremiah chapter 31, the New Covenant is not like the Sinai Covenant.
Therefore, it cannot be a renewal of the Sinai covenant.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

.

 

[Goodbook]

Ok theres back and forth views and im getting a bit lost here.

i think beabearen has explained it well.
Jesus did say salvation is from the jews first and then to the gentile. And i do believe his seond coming is when the times of gentiles will be fulfilled..ie. When all the gentile nations have come into his kingdom then the end will come.
There is a remanat left of israel who have stayed true the rest of us gentiles are grafted in.
There will always be antichrists trying to undermine the word..in every age.

I dont know what this peace treaty idea came from because the we now have the new covenent, I dont think they will dig out the old ark of the covenant again when the sacrifices stopped at Jesus and he was anointed most Holy. Thats just silly.

When the end of the age is we dont know, but I would say with global warming (hell heating up) and globalisation, it cant be far off because the gentile nations now most of them have the opportunity to hear the gospel. Also there is no temple in heaven as the book of revelation says. So its not about the rebuilding of the temple, God is not going to dwell there anymore. The whole point is Jerusalem is a gathering place for everyone of the saints to be with Him, not offer sacrifices anymore. Revelation talks about the gates to the city, NOT the temple. God will dwell with us. We will all be in His glory.

 

[Goodbook]

Jesus renewal of the covenant of mt sinai happened at pentecost. The birth of the church. This takes place at shauvot when they reconfirm the giving of the torah. The book of acts gives the detail. We are living in the new covenant now, the old one is done away with, as Hebrews explains.

So those ten commandments etc have been written on our hearts with the two Jesus gave, by the holy spirit.

I think the 7 year peace treaty is a red herring. Maybe its to do with zionism? I dont know why people would think its a political thing between countries. A covenant is not like a peace treaty. Its spiritual reconciliation between man and God. Our one was confirmed by Jesus own blood. Available to BOTH jews and gentiles.

 

[Douggg]

I dont know what this peace treaty idea came from because the we now have the new covenent, I dont think they will dig out the old ark of the covenant again when the sacrifices stopped at Jesus and he was anointed most Holy. Thats just silly.

Goodbook, go to my post #21 on page 2 of this thread. I explained to you where the peace treaty idea came from.

 

[Douggg]

i think beabearen has explained it well.
Jesus did say salvation is from the jews first and then to the gentile. And i do believe his seond coming is when the times of gentiles will be fulfilled..ie. When all the gentile nations have come into his kingdom then the end will come.
There is a remanat left of israel who have stayed true the rest of us gentiles are grafted in.
There will always be antichrists trying to undermine the word..in every age.

All beaberean is doing is presenting why Jesus is the messiah. Everyone here knows that Jesus is the messiah, and is the new covenant of Jeremiah 31.

What beaberean is not doing is understanding Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27 correctly - because the 70 weeks of years are divided between the 69th week and the 70th week - with the full 70th week left. Not divided between 69 1/2 weeks (claimed to be tied to the stoning of Stephen) and 1/2 week left. News flash for everyone - Stephen is not in the Daniel 9 prophecy, anywhere. Stephen is not the messiah. The only persons found in Daniel 9:26-27 are (1) the messiah (2) the prince who shall come.

And Daniel 9 is not a prophecy about the church. It is a prophecy to Israel and Jerusalem - how long it would be before they become right with God. Which it will not be until Jerusalem welcomes Jesus - saying "blessed is he who comes in the name the Lord".

The 70th week, the 7 years is right in the bible as a 7 year cycle, in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, that the leader of Israel is responsible that the law is read to the assembly of Israel in confirming the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant. It has nothing to do with Christianity. The 70 weeks are determined on Israel and Jerusalem - not the Church.

The Jews are not going to accept Jesus until they go through the time of the Antichrist.

 

[BABerean2]

And Daniel 9 is not a prophecy about the church. It is a prophecy to Israel and Jerusalem - how long it would be before they become right with God. Which it will not be until Jerusalem welcomes Jesus - saying "blessed is he who comes in the name the Lord".

The 70th week, the 7 years is right in the bible as a 7 year cycle, in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, that the leader of Israel is responsible that the law is read to the assembly of Israel in confirming the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant. It has nothing to do with Christianity. The 70 weeks are determined on Israel and Jerusalem - not the Church.

It seems strange that someone who gets upset when he is labeled as a "Dispensationalist" is promoting the viewpoint used by Dr. Charles Ryrie and others who are Dispensationalists.

They insist on the distinction between Israel and the Church.
Some of them even go so far to say...
"Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church and never the twain shall meet."

They try to ignore the fact that the Gentile branches were grafted in among the Israelite branches in Romans chapter 11.
They often refer to today's Church as "The Gentile Church" in an effort to deny that the Church today is still made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians grafted together into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the New Blood Covenant Church.

I am still mystified at how anyone can claim a prophecy in Daniel 9 about the coming Messiah has nothing to do with the Church, which started out being made up almost entirely of Jewish Christians.

The 7 year cycle of the Jewish calendar is an important part of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.
They were in exile for 70 years because they had failed to give the land it's Sabbath rest as commanded by God.

In Jeremiah 31:31-34 we find that there was a New Covenant coming because the Israelites had broken the Sinai Covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Claiming the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is about the Sinai covenant conflicts with the text from Jeremiah.

If you want to understand the Jewish Lunar/Solar calendar, purchase a copy of the book "The Atonement Clock" by Christian Gedge. Daniel's 70 weeks will make more sense after you read the book.

Based on Romans chapter 11, the only way of salvation is by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the Church.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

 

[Douggg]

Claiming the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is about the Sinai covenant conflicts with the text from Jeremiah.

If you want to understand the Jewish Lunar/Solar calendar, purchase a copy of the book "The Atonement Clock" by Christian Gedge. Daniel's 70 weeks will make more sense after you read the book.

Based on Romans chapter 11, the only way of salvation is by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the Church.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Are you trying to tell us that Jesus is the messiah and in him the new covenant? Like we don't already know that?

It is Israel and Jerusalem who have not accepted Jesus yet. The 70 weeks is a prophecy of when Israel and Jerusalem are finally right with God. Meaning that they receive Jesus as the messiah. The church is not anywhere to be found in Daniel 9.

Stephen certainly is not there. The only persons in the text are (1) the messiah (2) the prince who shall come. The Jews are currently in conflict with Jeremiah 31. Daniel 9:27 isn't "about the Mt. Sinai covenant", it is about Israel and Jerusalem finally getting right with God. It not trying to prove the Mt. Sinai covenant is valid as the new covenant.

It just so happens that the Mt Sinai covenant is the covenant that will be confirmed for 7 years because it is something the Antichrist will confirm in the school of hard knocks that Israel and Jerusalem must go through before they embrace Jesus.

What you are doing is taking Daniel 9 and presenting an apologetics argument of why that chapter proves that Jesus is the messiah - instead of grasping what Daniel 9 is about eschatology wise.

 

[BABerean2]

It just so happens that the Mt Sinai covenant is the covenant that will be confirmed for 7 years because it is something the Antichrist will confirm in the school of hard knocks that Israel and Jerusalem must go through before they embrace Jesus.

What you are doing is taking Daniel 9 and presenting an apologetics argument of why that chapter proves that Jesus is the messiah - instead of grasping what Daniel 9 is about eschatology wise.

Let us compare the New Covenant found in Jeremiah chapter 31 to the text of Daniel chapter 9 and the words of Christ Himself in Matthew chapter 26.

Daniel 9 and the New Covenant:

Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The only way of salvation now, for the modern Jews or anyone else, is through the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ.
The Church is made up of those who have accepted the New Covenant.

The Old Sinai covenant is finished... (Hebrews 8:13)

We all need to remember Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9.

.

 

[Goodbook]

um ok I can get why people think there's a 'gap' but actually its not talking about what we see now as the nation of israel because its not even made up of jews anymore, its zionists. Only a remnant will be faithful and these ALREADY know Jesus is their messiah. But also like us we do await His return to Jerusalem. Its only that the times of the gentiles be fufilled, the jewish people were already given the opportunity to hear the gospel when Jesus came the first time. When the last gentile has come into the Kingdom, then the end will come. We don't seek another, we look for the coming of the Lord and we know in ourselves, that He is already within us by His spirit.

I'm reading from KJV, not geneva bible or darby version. Just plain scripture.

 

[Goodbook]

The Kingdom of God actually extended its borders far and wide beyond the original promised land that was caanaan. Its just the centre is Jerusalem. Its not just what you see as the nation of Israel now on the map, although it is the jewish peoples original covenanted homeland.

The book of Revelation tells us how big the kingdom will be.