Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Postvieww]

1 Corin 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


“them that slept” no distinction made between Old and New Testament Saints.


21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.


Only one resurrection of the righteous dead, “the resurrection of the dead “. This is Paul writing, if a second had been revealed to him, he would have mentioned it, or used the plural of the word.


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


All righteous men included here, or does “all” not mean all in this case?


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Again no distinction made for Old Testament saints.


24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


In context this passage refers to all righteous dead, all the way back to Adam, “them that slept”, “the resurrection of the dead”, “as in Adam all die” , “in Christ shall all be made alive”, “every man in his own order” “they that are Christ's at his coming”.


Old Testament saints looked forward to the cross for their salvation we look back to the cross for our salvation. There is only one resurrection for the righteous dead in scripture. Redemption in the Old Testament is still redemption.


Job 19: 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Does anyone believe Job had a different redeemer that “liveth” and “ shall stand at the latter day” than we do ?

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

What about those that followed Jesus in His early ministry but died before the cross? Jesus talked and preached to them and many believed on Him . When will they be resurrected?

At the resurrection at the last day along with the rest of the righteous dead is the only logical answer.

 

[BABerean2]

Anyone with even a lick of common sense[/COLOR][/U][/B] would think this was the last cookie of the series of cookies that was put IN THE COOKIE JAR and has absolutely nothing to do with cookies in another jar somewhere else or some other time in the same jar.

If we find a passage in God's Word which says something will happen when the "last" cookie is eaten and then we find that there are only 7 cookies, then it would not require a "brain surgeon" to determine which cookie is the "last cookie".

Anyone with a "lick" of common sense could figure it out, unless their doctrine forbids them from admitting what is plainly written in God's Word.


1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.



1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



1Co_15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



Eph_5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Another Lazarus]

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
.

If you are left behind and you refuse to worship the beast and refuse the mark of the beast then you shall be killed.

But not all saints will be killed, many will be raptured alive and sound !
Two shall be in the field one shall be taken the other left
Two shall be in the bed one shall be taken one shall be left

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[Bible2+]

BABerean2 said in post 6542:

If we find a passage in God's Word which says something will happen when the "last" cookie is eaten and then we find that there are only 7 cookies, then it would not require a "brain surgeon" to determine which cookie is the "last cookie".

Note that nothing requires that there are only 7 trumpets.

That is, there are only 7 trumpets during the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2). But there will be a subsequent, post-tribulation trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31), which will be, in effect, an 8th trumpet. It will be the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52).

 

[Bible2+]

Another Lazarus said in post 6543:

If you are left behind and you refuse to worship the beast and refuse the mark of the beast then you shall be killed.

Regarding "If you are left behind", note that nothing in the Bible says or requires that any believer will be left behind at the rapture.

Is such a mistaken idea usually based on Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41? If so, people should realize that these passages refer to what will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming, "when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:30), "the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37,39), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the future tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Those "taken" at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will be unsaved people who will be taken to where they will be killed and birds will eat their dead bodies (Luke 17:36-37; Matthew 24:28, cf. Job 39:30b; Revelation 19:21). The Greek word "paralambano" ("taken": Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) can be used to refer to being taken to another place to be killed (John 19:16-18).

Those "left" where they are at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include unsaved people who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These unsaved people will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the physically resurrected church during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the millennium into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Before the millennium, at Jesus' 2nd coming, those in the church will neither be "taken" and killed, nor "left" where they are, but will be "gathered together" (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) in the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The purpose of this rapture meeting will be so that those in the church can be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7) in the sky, before Jesus descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) with the obedient part of the church to bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:14 to 20:3).

So the 2nd coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before it was destroyed by God, so the church will be raptured into the sky at the 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus begins the 2nd-coming wrath of God (Revelation 19:15 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

Another Lazarus said in post 6543:

If you are left behind and you refuse to worship the beast and refuse the mark of the beast then you shall be killed.

Regarding "you shall be killed", Revelation 13:7-10 shows that the Antichrist, during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10), will indeed be allowed to physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Biblical Christians in the 1st century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). But there are no Biblical Christians outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Also, Revelation 13:7-10 doesn't mean that every person in the church will be overcome by the Antichrist. For some in the church will be in God-protected wilderness places (Revelation 12:6,14-16), and so they will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the tribulation (Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[Postvieww]

Note that nothing requires that there are only 7 trumpets.

That is, there are only 7 trumpets during the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2). But there will be a subsequent, post-tribulation trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31), which will be, in effect, an 8th trumpet. It will be the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52).

Bible2+said: post #6544

Note that nothing requires that there are only 7 trumpets.

Nothing in scripture even hints that there are more than seven trumpets. Nothing in scripture requires that Christ will not have his army armed with 12 gauge shotguns, but we cannot assume He will.

That is, there are only 7 trumpets during the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2).

Absolutely correct! Which one of those is the last one? Could it be the one about which John and Paul wrote:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corin. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If you can come up with a way to scripturally separate these two passages then do so. Until then just repeating over and over it is not so, is proof or evidence of nothing.

The wording of Rev 10:7 and 11:15 & 18 suggest this is at the end of the tribulation therefore the trumpet of Matt 24 is the same trumpet as in 1 Corin 15 and Rev 10:7 and 11:15. The burden is on you to show from scripture why this cannot be so, not just declare it is not.

But there will be a subsequent, post-tribulation trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31), which will be, in effect, an 8th trumpet. It will be the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52).

Nothing in scripture requires your above statement is correct. It appears to be based solely on your belief Revelation is in chronological order. You have offered nothing in the way of scriptural proof or even a scriptural hint there is an eighth trumpet. When you say “there will be” you really should offer up something more in the way of evidence. Continually stating “nothing requires” is not a very sound defense of your postion.

 

[John S]

If you are left behind and you refuse to worship the beast and refuse the mark of the beast then you shall be killed.

But not all saints will be killed, many will be raptured alive and sound !
Two shall be in the field one shall be taken the other left
Two shall be in the bed one shall be taken one shall be left

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

Since there will NOT be a Rapture, you will also be "left behind".

 

[iamlamad]

Bible2+said: post #6544

Note that nothing requires that there are only 7 trumpets.

Nothing in scripture even hints that there are more than seven trumpets. Nothing in scripture requires that Christ will not have his army armed with 12 gauge shotguns, but we cannot assume He will.

That is, there are only 7 trumpets during the tribulation (Revelation 8:1-2).

Absolutely correct! Which one of those is the last one? Could it be the one about which John and Paul wrote:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corin. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If you can come up with a way to scripturally separate these two passages then do so. Until then just repeating over and over it is not so, is proof or evidence of nothing.

The wording of Rev 10:7 and 11:15 & 18 suggest this is at the end of the tribulation therefore the trumpet of Matt 24 is the same trumpet as in 1 Corin 15 and Rev 10:7 and 11:15. The burden is on you to show from scripture why this cannot be so, not just declare it is not.

But there will be a subsequent, post-tribulation trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31), which will be, in effect, an 8th trumpet. It will be the "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52).

Nothing in scripture requires your above statement is correct. It appears to be based solely on your belief Revelation is in chronological order. You have offered nothing in the way of scriptural proof or even a scriptural hint there is an eighth trumpet. When you say “there will be” you really should offer up something more in the way of evidence. Continually stating “nothing requires” is not a very sound defense of your postion.

Here we go again! Revelation is written in an order. The burden of proof is for you to prove by scripture that it cannot be in order.

The wording of Rev 10:7 and 11:15 & 18 suggest...

But can you PROVE this scripturally? Of course you can't. It is a theory that cannot be proven. It "suggests" only to those that wish to argue with John's chronology.

Nothing in scripture even hints that there are more than seven trumpets.

To imagine that a bible from front to back includes many trumpets for many purposes, it is ludicrous to think that the 7th in Revelation will be the very last trumpet ever sounded. Is it possible a trumpet will survive the 7 years and be sounded in the Millennial reign? Is it possible that an angel might sound a trumpet during the millennium? Of course, not only possible but EXTREMELY probable.

 

[iamlamad]

Since there will NOT be a Rapture, you will also be "left behind".

Oh no! Jesus will come for ONE if there is only ONE ready. Believe it, for it is truth. No amount of unbelief on the earth will prevent His coming for His saints.

 

[iamlamad]

Lamad wrote:
If someone went to look in the cookie jar and found it empty, and said, WHO TOOK THE LAST COOKIE? Some else speaks up: "I took the last cookie!"

Anyone with even a lick of common sense would think this was the last cookie of the series of cookies that was put IN THE COOKIE JAR and has absolutely nothing to do with cookies in another jar somewhere else or some other time in the same jar.

BA wrote:
If we find a passage in God's Word which says something will happen when the "last" cookie is eaten and then we find that there are only 7 cookies, then it would not require a "brain surgeon" to determine which cookie is the "last cookie".

Anyone with a "lick" of common sense could figure it out, unless their doctrine forbids them from admitting what is plainly written in God's Word.

This has little to do with doctrine; it has much to do with common sense in studying God's word and determining the intent of the Author.

Again it would be ludicrous to imagine that this 7 trumpets are the only trumpets in existence and when the final one is sounded there will never, ever, be another trumpet sounded! Anyone with a lick of common sense would know the intent of the Author would be that these seven are only a SERIES of trumpets and that other trumpets exist elsewhere, both in scripture and in the world.

Your problem: you see ONE WORD in a verse and the same word in another verse and then IMAGINE they are speaking of the same very trumpet. Again this is absurd. This kind of exegeses leads to follies such as:

Your kind of " is plainly written:"
Matthew 27:5
And he [Judas Iscariot] ..., went and hanged himself.

Luke 10:37
... Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

1 Thes 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Anyone with a lick of common sense KNOWs these scriptures are not meant to be put together like this.

Anyone with a lick of sense knows that the "last trump" of Paul has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of Revelation. Revelation was not written for years after Paul wrote about the last trump.

 

[iamlamad]

1 Corin 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


“them that slept” no distinction made between Old and New Testament Saints.


21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.


Only one resurrection of the righteous dead, “the resurrection of the dead “. This is Paul writing, if a second had been revealed to him, he would have mentioned it, or used the plural of the word.


22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


All righteous men included here, or does “all” not mean all in this case?


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Again no distinction made for Old Testament saints.


24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


In context this passage refers to all righteous dead, all the way back to Adam, “them that slept”, “the resurrection of the dead”, “as in Adam all die” , “in Christ shall all be made alive”, “every man in his own order” “they that are Christ's at his coming”.


Old Testament saints looked forward to the cross for their salvation we look back to the cross for our salvation. There is only one resurrection for the righteous dead in scripture. Redemption in the Old Testament is still redemption.


Job 19: 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Does anyone believe Job had a different redeemer that “liveth” and “ shall stand at the latter day” than we do ?

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

What about those that followed Jesus in His early ministry but died before the cross? Jesus talked and preached to them and many believed on Him . When will they be resurrected?

At the resurrection at the last day along with the rest of the righteous dead is the only logical answer.

Do you really know what it means to be "in Christ?"

 

[BABerean2]

Here we go again! Revelation is written in an order. The burden of proof is for you to prove by scripture that it cannot be in order.

Done...


Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
This is the birth and death of Jesus Christ, which took place almost 2,000 years ago.
Therefore, it is history.
Therefore, the Book of Revelation is not in purely Chronological order.


Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
This verse proves there will be Christians alive during this time.
Therefore, John Darby's claim that the age of Grace will end before this time is not true.

No matter how many times the truth is presented, some will never be able to let go of Darby's doctrine that has spread like a virus through the evangelical Church.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
.

 

[John S]

Oh no! Jesus will come for ONE if there is only ONE ready. Believe it, for it is truth. No amount of unbelief on the earth will prevent His coming for His saints.

Are you one of His saints?
If so, YOU must have determined that you are one of His saints. If you have then you must be more powerful than God.
When there isn't any Rapture, then you will see just how wrong this Satanic doctrine has been.

 

[keras]

Oh no! Jesus will come for ONE if there is only ONE ready. Believe it, for it is truth. No amount of unbelief on the earth will prevent His coming for His saints.

The question is: Where are the Saints, the Lord's holy ones, His elect, His chosen: when the Beast, the Anti-Christ, Satan: has his time, times and a half a time, 3.5 years, 42 months, 1260 days of power over the earth?
Daniel 7:25 ..... the holy ones of the Most High will be delivered into his power...... Also Daniel 11:32
Revelation 13:5-7..... The beast was allowed to wage war on God's people and to defeat them......Revelation 18:4

The answer is: the living Saints, Christians, all whom God has called to be His own, are ON EARTH.
Revelation 13:12 This calls for the endurance of God's people......
You, Iamlamad and all who have been fooled into believing the false theory of a rapture to heaven, must now repent of that belief. Do it NOW, before the terrible Day of the Lord's judgement comes, and all who expected to be raptured outta here, are left thinking that God has let them down and may lose their faith in Him.
The Lord DOES promise protection to all who call upon His Name on that Day, Joel 2:32, Acts of the Apostles 2:21, Isaiah 43:2 and then they go to live in all of the holy Land, which will be like the garden of Eden, Isaiah 51:3, Psalms 126:1-5, Amos 9:13
Great will be that time!

 

[BABerean2]

If you are left behind and you refuse to worship the beast and refuse the mark of the beast then you shall be killed.

But not all saints will be killed, many will be raptured alive and sound !
Two shall be in the field one shall be taken the other left
Two shall be in the bed one shall be taken one shall be left

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

I would be helpful if you understood that the "taken" are destroyed, just as those "taken" in the flood were destroyed.
So much for the title of a series of books by Tim LaHaye.
They could not even get the title correct...


Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

This text is best understood as like the parable of the wheat and tares, where the tares are gathered first and destroyed.


Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Do you want to be "taken" to be destroyed in the fire or "left behind", like the wheat, to be gathered into the barn?
.

 

[iamlamad]

Done...


Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
This is the birth and death of Jesus Christ, which took place almost 2,000 years ago.
Therefore, it is history.
Therefore, the Book of Revelation is not in purely Chronological order.
WRONG! This chapter is all about the DRAGON, mentioned 32 times in this chapter, if memory serves me right. In the words of the Master Himself, "I CHOSE to show John how the Dragon tried to kill me as a child." I do hope you remember what King Herod did.

These five verses are written as a PARENTHESIS and has no bearing on chronology. You don't believe this yet I have covered it many times. It is truth anyway. No matter how many times the truth is presented, some will never be able to grasp it.

Rev. 11:1 The man of sin arrives In Jerusalem with his Gentile armies.
Rev. 11:2 The city will be trampled for 42 months.
Rev 11:3 The two witnesses arrive from heaven and begin their testimony: 3 1/2 days before the abomination.
Rev. 11:15: The 7th trumpet sounds marking the EXACT MIDPOINT of the week and the abomination.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
This verse proves there will be Christians alive during this time.
Therefore, John Darby's claim that the age of Grace will end before this time is not true.
HOw little you know. You completely ignore that the door is closes (the Ten Virgins) but LIFE GOES ON! You don't seem to think anyone can ever again come to God. How wrong you are!

I can trust on you to sidestep the real issue and bring up Darby! You are sure going to be surprised by the size of His crown when we all get to heaven. We are talking about CHRONOLOGY.
No matter how many times the truth is presented, some will never be able to let go of Darby's doctrine that has spread like a virus through the evangelical Church. And some will never GET it.
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
.

Finally, your last like has some truth. You certainly have much to learn about Revelation.

 

[iamlamad]

Are you one of His saints?
If so, YOU must have determined that you are one of His saints. If you have then you must be more powerful than God.
When there isn't any Rapture, then you will see just how wrong this Satanic doctrine has been.

I can read:
"He that has the Son has life."

 

[iamlamad]

The question is: Where are the Saints, the Lord's holy ones, His elect, His chosen: when the Beast, the Anti-Christ, Satan: has his time, times and a half a time, 3.5 years, 42 months, 1260 days of power over the earth?
Daniel 7:25 ..... the holy ones of the Most High will be delivered into his power...... Also Daniel 11:32
Revelation 13:5-7..... The beast was allowed to wage war on God's people and to defeat them......Revelation 18:4

The answer is: the living Saints, Christians, all whom God has called to be His own, are ON EARTH.
Revelation 13:12 This calls for the endurance of God's people......
You, Iamlamad and all who have been fooled into believing the false theory of a rapture to heaven, must now repent of that belief. Do it NOW, before the terrible Day of the Lord's judgement comes, and all who expected to be raptured outta here, are left thinking that God has let them down and may lose their faith in Him.
The Lord DOES promise protection to all who call upon His Name on that Day, Joel 2:32, Acts of the Apostles 2:21, Isaiah 43:2 and then they go to live in all of the holy Land, which will be like the garden of Eden, Isaiah 51:3, Psalms 126:1-5, Amos 9:13
Great will be that time!

That is your theory: very few believe it, and I surely don't. It goes against too many scriptures rightly divided.

If you wish to remain behind, I believe God will give you your wish. If we ever meet I will ask you how that worked out for you.

 

[iamlamad]

I would be helpful if you understood that the "taken" are destroyed, just as those "taken" in the flood were destroyed.
So much for the title of a series of books by Tim LaHaye.
They could not even get the title correct...


Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

This text is best understood as like the parable of the wheat and tares, where the tares are gathered first and destroyed.


Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Do you want to be "taken" to be destroyed in the fire or "left behind", like the wheat, to be gathered into the barn?
.

I understand the difference between the parable of the tares and the rapture of the church. You don't. In fact, it seems you don't believe much other than the verses you continually post. You have proved over and over that you can't believe in the rapture. If we ever meet on the other side, I will certainly ask you how that worked out for you.

Next, it seems you are LOST when it comes to time and timing. Perhaps you should do a study on that. Seven years is a long time when terrible things are taking place. MUCH can happen. For example, the 144000 are seen on earth, then seen in heaven.

 

[keras]

Keras asked:
The question is: Where are the Saints, the Lord's holy ones, His elect, His chosen: when the Beast, the Anti-Christ, Satan: has his time, times and a half a time, 3.5 years, 42 months, 1260 days of power over the earth?
Daniel 7:25 ..... the holy ones of the Most High will be delivered into his power...... Also Daniel 11:32
Revelation 13:5-7..... The beast was allowed to wage war on God's people and to defeat them......Revelation 18:4
The answer is: the living Saints, Christians, all whom God has called to be His own, are ON EARTH.
Revelation 13:12 This calls for the endurance of God's people......

Lamlamad replied: That is your theory: very few believe it, and I surely don't. It goes against too many scriptures rightly divided.
My theory?..... No, just the Prophetic truth.
Very few believe it?...... A pretentious comment, totally unsupportable.
I surely don't... Yes, you are locked into the rapture lie.
...scriptures rightly divided...... A phrase used by those who try to gain the moral high ground, but just display their paucity of real knowledge of God's plans for our future.

The verses I posted ARE scripture. It speaks the truth. Either believe what is Written, or believe lies.
This reply proves that you don't believe or just ignore scriptures that contradict your false beliefs.

When I meet you in the holy Land and provided you are a true believer in Jesus, we may well do so, I won't ask 'how it all went for you', because you will be unable to reply, for shame and embarrassment.