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LDS Is Moroni a fallen demonic angel?

ToBeLoved

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Ever have a self-professed "Good Christian" tell you that they want to hurt or even kill you simply because of your religious beliefs?

Ever see an ordained minister tell a man to use "any means necessary" to keep his wife from investigating the LDS faith?

Ever have someone back away slowly from you?

Ever have to keep a relationship secret because your non-member significant other is afraid of how their parents will react when they find out that they're dating you?

Yeah.

Been there, done that.
I've been there to with some family who are Oneness Pentecostals. They are no joke. They think I'm on my way to hell and almost every other Christian but themselves.

That persecution stinks.

What does Jesus say about this?

Jesus tells us that we WILL suffer and be persecuted for His name. That because we have suffered with Him, we will also be glorified with Him.
 
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Ironhold

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Jesus tells us that we WILL suffer and be persecuted for His name. That because we have suffered with Him, we will also be glorified with Him.

...yet earlier in this (and other) threads you said that we're going to Hell simply for being LDS, with no other thought to anything about us.

Rather undercuts your sentiment there.
 
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ToBeLoved

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...yet earlier in this (and other) threads you said that we're going to Hell simply for being LDS, with no other thought to anything about us.

Rather undercuts your sentiment there.
Why don't you go find that instead of baring false witness. I guarantee I did not say that.

I want the thread and post number.

You consistently bear false witness against another. You need to read the 10 Commandments and stop doing this sinning regularly. It is not befitting a Child of God.

As long as you continue like this no one will respect you.

I am not dealing with it much longer and I will report you if you don't fix it. We all have told you and you keep doing this. Do you care that you bare false witness against us? Do you care that this is a sin? Are you going to make things right?

It's your choice.
 
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withwonderingawe

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...which should tell you how badly out of date most anti-Mormons are when it comes to issues relating to the church.

I have my own definition I suppose;

Health opposition is having honest disagreements over adding additional scriptures, the nature of God, salvation etc.

Anti Mormons believe the ends justify the means as in takings quotes out of context and misrepresenting our doctrines. They will take things we feel are sacred and use them to mock.

I think it’s the difference between being truly born of God and loving others verse being self-righteous and making God in your own image, believing He hates everyone you hate.

Iron is right, a lot of anti Mormon stuff is out dated. All of Joseph's papers have been gone through and in print. There is a much better understanding of the whys and wherefores. Much of the old anti Mormon books are based on hearsay and out right lies.
 
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rockytopva

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Quotes out of context and misrepresenting your doctrine? The simple fact is that the whole bag are the fantasizations of Joseph Smith. The societies referred to in the book of Mormon never existed. It is a make believe world! All of which has never been proven by any kind of archaeology or manuscripts from the described period.
 
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withwonderingawe

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Whenever angelic announcements were made here on earth Gabriel was most often the angel of choice. In Islam Gabriel is the Angel who relayed the Qur'an to Muhammad from God. So, if such doctrine is true, at least it came from Gabriel, an angel known to give such tidings.

But who is this Moroni? No such name as Moroni in scripture. According to Latter Day Saint belief, the golden plates are the source from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the faith. Some witnesses described the plates as weighing 50 pounds, golden in color, and being composed of thin metallic pages engraved on both sides and bound with three D-shaped rings.

Smith said he found the plates at a hill near his home in Manchester, New York, after the angel Moroni directed him to a buried stone box. Smith said the angel prevented him from taking the plates, but instructed him to return to the same location. Though he allowed others to heft the box, he said that the angel had forbidden him to show the plates to anyone until they had been translated from their original "reformed Egyptian" language. Smith dictated the text of the Book of Mormon, claiming that it was a translation of the plates. He did this by using a seer stone, which he placed in the bottom of a hat and then placed the hat over his face to view the words written within the stone. Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon (bits and pieced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates) .

If these plates were in Manchestor NY, I would think that someone would have found them by now.

So this so called book of Mormon was translated from the original "reformed Egyptian" language, which much of the text looks like it was copied from the KJV of the bible. And I would imagine such revelation coming from the Jew, or at least a son of Shem, as the scripture says...

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. - Romans 3:1-3

The Apostle Paul had trouble with people manipulating the scripture in error. At one time he declared...

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1

And the Apostle Peter, taking up with Paul, said that...

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2 Peter 3

I personally believe that the Book of Mormon is, as the Apostle Peter says, a product of the unlearned and unstable, which they wrest, as they do with other scriptures, unto their own destruction. And I personally believe that the angel Moroni is, as the Apostle Paul said, an accursed angel as he brought another gospel which was not handed down through the Apostles.

Well then Joseph stands in good company, even Jesus was accused of working with the devil.

"But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."
 
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ToBeLoved

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I have my own definition I suppose;

Health opposition is having honest disagreements over adding additional scriptures, the nature of God, salvation etc.

Anti Mormons believe the ends justify the means as in takings quotes out of context and misrepresenting our doctrines. They will take things we feel are sacred and use them to mock.

I think it’s the difference between being truly born of God and loving others verse being self-righteous and making God in your own image, believing He hates everyone you hate.

Iron is right, a lot of anti Mormon stuff is out dated. All of Joseph's papers have been gone through and in print. There is a much better understanding of the whys and wherefores. Much of the old anti Mormon books are based on hearsay and out right lies.
And what does that have to do with this conversation?

Seems like your sabatoging yourselves by holding on to things. Hate is not a good look.

Get over it.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Well then Joseph stands in good company, even Jesus was accused of working with the devil.

"But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."
Ahhh. Comparing JS to God. Put your best foot forward.

Mormons are so special.

You are your own worst advocates. The pity party is real.

Leave it to you to put Jesus, Satan and JS in the same post. Ugh. It never ends.
 
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mmksparbud

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When I awoke from my nap I remembered an elderly lady from years ago. She was a wise old woman. She'd raised several children. She had 2 boys whom from day one could not get along. They fought endlessly. If they were awake and together, they were fighting and often it would explode into an all out brawl. One day she'd had enough. She drove into town where there was an YMCA type of club and got 2 pairs of boxing gloves. When she got back she grabbed the boys, and a broom and threw them outside and had them put on the gloves. They gleefully went at it. Soon they tired and wanted to quite and she grabbed her broom and started whacking the heck out of both of them and made keep on fighting, when they would quite she'd pound them some more till the were fighting again. Finally they both fell down, crying like babies and begging for her to stop and promised they'd never fight again----she took her broom and went inside--they cleaned up and never again said an unkind word to each other. If it looked like they were getting into an argument they'd look over to their mother who was looking at her broom and they'd put on this silly grin and hug.
Maybe it's time to get the broom and the gloves here.
 
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rockytopva

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Anti Mormons? Who is Mormon? Did he actually exist outside the imagination of Joseph Smith?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Cor 11:3

The head of every man is Christ... Not some made up story figures in the mind of some fantastical man.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Anti Mormons? Who is Mormon? Did he actually exist outside the imagination of Joseph Smith?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Cor 11:3

The head of every man is Christ... Not some made up story figures in the mind of some fantastical man.
They really think people are so into them.

It is almost hysterical their sense of self. They are so important and the world is taking notice!!!!

Well, not to shake their poor, little half dead tree, but no one cares. It is not even important enough to bring more than 5 threads to be open.

Geez. More people on CF talk about puppies than Mormons.

Self importance is the opposite of Jesus. Let's talk about God becoming a servant to the people who killed Him. For us.

Let's talk Rocky about something awesome!

How's the prayer going? I know you pray for so many.

I love that about you brother!
 
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ToBeLoved

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When I awoke from my nap I remembered an elderly lady from years ago. She was a wise old woman. She'd raised several children. She had 2 boys whom from day one could not get along. They fought endlessly. If they were awake and together, they were fighting and often it would explode into an all out brawl. One day she'd had enough. She drove into town where there was an YMCA type of club and got 2 pairs of boxing gloves. When she got back she grabbed the boys, and a broom and threw them outside and had them put on the gloves. They gleefully went at it. Soon they tired and wanted to quite and she grabbed her broom and started whacking the heck out of both of them and made keep on fighting, when they would quite she'd pound them some more till the were fighting again. Finally they both fell down, crying like babies and begging for her to stop and promised they'd never fight again----she took her broom and went inside--they cleaned up and never again said an unkind word to each other. If it looked like they were getting into an argument they'd look over to their mother who was looking at her broom and they'd put on this silly grin and hug.
Maybe it's time to get the broom and the gloves here.
Dude. No one needs to whack em. They whack themselves.

Let's just watch.
 
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Ironhold

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Quotes out of context and misrepresenting your doctrine? The simple fact is that the whole bag are the fantasizations of Joseph Smith. The societies referred to in the book of Mormon never existed. It is a make believe world! All of which has never been proven by any kind of archaeology or manuscripts from the described period.

So you're willing to tolerate the lies and deceptions of your "Christian" fellows as long as the ends justify the means?

If not, then you seriously need to sit back and think things through.
 
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withwonderingawe

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Quotes out of context and misrepresenting your doctrine? The simple fact is that the whole bag are the fantasizations of Joseph Smith. The societies referred to in the book of Mormon never existed. It is a make believe world! All of which has never been proven by any kind of archaeology or manuscripts from the described period.

There you go quoting out dated material, there are all kinds of evidences.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So you're willing to tolerate the lies and deceptions of your "Christian" fellows as long as the ends justify the means?

If not, then you seriously need to sit back and think things through.
Sounds like he's speaking for himself and I think he was pretty clear.
 
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Ironhold

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Sounds like he's speaking for himself and I think he was pretty clear.

The question still stands:

Are Christians willing to tolerate it when their fellows lie and deceive so long as the ends justify the means?

All too often, the answer to that question is "yes" when the lies are being told about groups that they hate.
 
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ToBeLoved

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The question still stands:

Are Christians willing to tolerate it when their fellows lie and deceive so long as the ends justify the means?

All too often, the answer to that question is "yes" when the lies are being told about groups that they hate.
I don't think they are. However, we feel that the basics of Christianity are beliefs in the Nicene Creed. So I see no lies here.
 
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