Post-Trib Only Nuclear Apocalypse ?!

[stephen583]

The prophecies of dwelling safely without walls can only describe America

Look. I enjoyed "Red Dawn" as much as ever body else. I thought Patrick Swayze was great in it. But it was a totally ficticious movie. Russia will never invade the United States with ground forces. The idea is totally ludicrous and would be a military disaster of the first magnitude. Kind of like what happened to Napoleon and Hitler when they tried to invade and occupy Russia.

"Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains" (Matthew 24:16).

In ancient times, the present day territory we call the "West Bank" of Israel, was called JUDEA. That's where the Antichrist figure called the "Abomination of Desolation" (Matthew 24:15), is going to make his invasion. It's not going to be in Alaska, or New Jersey.

The only way Russia is attacking the United States of America, is with thermo-nuclear missiles. Unless you're talking about a Hollywood remake of "Red Dawn". In fact, I believe they already made one and this time it was the Koreans instead of the Russians, which I thought was even more lame than the first movie, from a military standpoint.

 

[stephen583]

Why didn't I include a compass in my kit ? Simple. You shouldn't need one unless you're navigating by a map. North, South, East and West can easily be established by simply looking at the sky. The sun rises in the East and sets in the West. If you can see the Big Dipper, you can locate the North Star (Polaris). South is in the opposite direction. Look it up on the internet and learn how to navigate using celestial points. You'll need to develop these skills.

 

[n2thelight]

Look. I enjoyed "Red Dawn" as much as ever body else. I thought Patrick Swayze was great in it. But it was a totally ficticious movie. Russia will never invade the United States with ground forces. The idea is totally ludicrous and would be a military disaster of the first magnitude. Kind of like what happened to Napoleon and Hitler when they tried to invade and occupy Russia.

"Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains" (Matthew 24:16).

In ancient times, the present day territory we call the "West Bank" of Israel, was called JUDEA. That's where the Antichrist figure called the "Abomination of Desolation" (Matthew 24:15), is going to make his invasion. It's not going to be in Alaska, or New Jersey.

The only way Russia is attacking the United States of America, is with thermo-nuclear missiles. Unless you're talking about a Hollywood remake of "Red Dawn". In fact, I believe they already made one and this time it was the Koreans instead of the Russians, which I thought was even more lame than the first movie, from a military standpoint.

Really forgot about that movie,however Im not talking hollywood...Israel is not a place without walls America is....

One must understand who Israel is,not Judah....

 

[Armoured]

Iran has a sweet Nuclear Deal that doesn't allow U.S. inspection of suspected sites, and many believe Iran will have a nuke in less than two years.

No one who knows anything about it believes this. Also, even if Iran DID have a functional, nuclear physics package in two years, it would take decades before they'd made enough to be considered "apocalyptic". Not to mention the glaring obvious fact that Iran lacks the three possible means for nuclear delivery, i.e. SLBMs, ICBMs and heavy strategic bombers.

Iranian Republican Guard

Indeed?

By my estimation, SAC (Strategic Air Command) has gone from DEFCON 4 (Normal) to DEFCON 2 at least four times in the last six months. At DEFCON 2 America's nuclear bomber forces are flown to within 1,500 miles of Russian airspace (Fail Safe)and wait there for the attack codes to be issued by the President of the United States. Time till bomb drop is less than three hours. DEFCON 1 is Nuclear War. The missile silos are opened and they launch, along with naval forces worldwide. The Apocalypse.

And is there anything to suggest your estimation is accurate?

In July-September 2015 another disturbing event took place called operation Jade Helm 15. Thousands of elite military troops dispersed throughout the South Western United States in nine states to remote locations far away from major cities and existing military bases, in what the U.S. government alleged were combat training exercises for future overseas deployment. (Question). Why would they be training off base in remote locations on civilian owned land, when combat training has always been traditionally carried out in the past on land reserved for military use ? (Answer). They wouldn't.

Jade Helm 15 was a "dress rehearsal" or drill for the dispersal of U.S. ground forces nationally in the event of Nuclear War. The special forces units have prepared the ground and systems necessary for the two million ground forces that will be dispersed in the event of war. All you have to do is take a look at where they dispersed to and compare that to a Nuclear Fallout map from the 1970's. The Book "Nuclear Apocalypse" is a good place to start, but it's a dreary read and it gets rather technical at times.

Gotta love armchair generals. It's also nice to see all the conspiracy theorising over JH15 aren't going to waste after the Army inconveniently failed to round up all the Christians into underground FEMA camps at those Walmarts, or whatever the last iteration was.

 

[Psalm3704]

There is a war coming soon. The exact description of the war can be found in scripture. Haggai 2:20-23 describes the war. This is an unfulfilled event. As of 520 BC up until 50 AD God had not shaken both the heavens and the earth. We know this from Hebrews 12:25-27. This message in Haggai has gone forth on the 24th day of the 9th month our year 2015...the day and month according to the Hebrew calendar.

Again, wrong year Kemosabe! You're still pulling those verses (Haggai 2:20-23) out of it's context using it to promote your own speculation, while ignoring what Haggai clearly stated two verses above in verse 18 that on the 24th day of 9th month, the foundation of the temple has been completed.

Haggai 2:18-22 GNT
18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on. 19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”
20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another.​

Get this through your head. "No construction on the 3rd temple has begun yet in Jerusalem!" Haggai never mentioned the year in his prophecy, just the day and month. You're filling in the blank with your own year speculating it as 2015.

If this prophecy was recently fulfilled, you would see construction of the temple in Jerusalem right now. Get it through your head, nothing has started yet. The year is not given in the book of Haggai, it's elsewhere in the bible and it does NOT point to 2015. Check and see if you can find people building a temple on the temple mount at this time. Haggai said the shaking of heaven and earth, Haggai 2:18-23 will happen shortly after the foundation of the temple is completed, Haggai 2:18-23.

It is described as a war that will shake both the heavens and the earth. That will overthrow royal thrones and where brother will go down by the sword of his brother. It seems possible that it could be a war of Muslim nations against one another.

No it's not a war, it's God's judgement upon the earth.

In case you're under a rock, Muslim countries won't be fighting each other this year. They're too busy in a huge coalition of 34 Arab nations and a global alliance of 64 countries from around the world fighting ISIS. Right now, ISIS is the most hated entity by majority of Muslim countries in the Middle East. They hate ISIS more than Israel and America.

The Muslims are currently allies with each other as they're fighting ISIS together with the rest of the world. They're not gonna fight each other now unless ISIS is destroyed first. Stop speculating with Mickey Mouse theories, read the bible and study what's happening in the Middle East. Go check and see if you can find people building a temple in Jerusalem at this time. If you don't see workers there and a new foundation laid out, stop preaching gobbledygook eschatology.

Muslim nations form coalition to fight terror, call Islamic extremism 'disease'
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/middleeast/islamic-coalition-isis-saudi-arabia/

Who is in the anti-Islamic State coalition and what they are contributing?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...coalition-and-what-they-are-contributing.html

What the 60-plus members of the anti-Islamic State coalition are doing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-the-anti-islamic-state-coalition-are-doing/






.

 

[Fusion77]

Again, wrong year Kemosabe! You're still pulling those verses (Haggai 2:20-23) out of it's context using it to promote your own speculation, while ignoring what Haggai clearly stated two verses above in verse 18 that on the 24th day of 9th month, the foundation of the temple has been completed.

Haggai 2:18-22 GNT
18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on. 19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”
20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another.​

Get this through your head. "No construction on the 3rd temple has begun yet in Jerusalem!" Haggai never mentioned the year in his prophecy, just the day and month. You're filling in the blank with your own year speculating it as 2015.

If this prophecy was recently fulfilled, you would see construction of the temple in Jerusalem right now. Get it through your head, nothing has started yet. The year is not given in the book of Haggai, it's elsewhere in the bible and it does NOT point to 2015. Check and see if you can find people building a temple on the temple mount at this time. Haggai said the shaking of heaven and earth, Haggai 2:18-23 will happen shortly after the foundation of the temple is completed, Haggai 2:18-23.



No it's not a war, it's God's judgement upon the earth.

In case you're under a rock, Muslim countries won't be fighting each other this year. They're too busy in a huge coalition of 34 Arab nations and a global alliance of 64 countries from around the world fighting ISIS. Right now, ISIS is the most hated entity by majority of Muslim countries in the Middle East. They hate ISIS more than Israel and America.

The Muslims are currently allies with each other as they're fighting ISIS together with the rest of the world. They're not gonna fight each other now unless ISIS is destroyed first. Stop speculating with Mickey Mouse theories, read the bible and study what's happening in the Middle East. Go check and see if you can find people building a temple in Jerusalem at this time. If you don't see workers there and a new foundation laid out, stop preaching gobbledygook eschatology.

Muslim nations form coalition to fight terror, call Islamic extremism 'disease'
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/middleeast/islamic-coalition-isis-saudi-arabia/

Who is in the anti-Islamic State coalition and what they are contributing?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...coalition-and-what-they-are-contributing.html

What the 60-plus members of the anti-Islamic State coalition are doing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-the-anti-islamic-state-coalition-are-doing/






.

Look it's common knowledge Darius made his ascent to the throne in September. You'll have to go to a word for word translation to realize what I'll try to show you, of course. The message in Haggai 2:10-17 came before Haggai 1:1. 2:10 is in after Darius was king for a year and about 2 months, as he made in ascent around the 7th month (Tishri) Notice how not one stone was upon another in Haggai 2:15 how could there not be 1 stone upon another if the work on the temple structure had already begun? That according to Haggai 1:14-15. there would have to be one stone upon another if the work had already begun. But, it hadn't! That's because Haggai 2:10-17 came first. Ezra 4:24 tells us the work ceased until the second year of Darius. Haggai 1:14-15 tells us the work resumed on the 24th of the 6th month of (Elul)...this was a year and 11 months into the reign of Darius. This message in Haggai 1 came after Haggai 2:10. So because Haggai 2:19 mentions the Lords blessing from that day forward, we know that not referring to that past (520 BC) time . How? Because, the message that comes 9 months later The Lord says he's called for a curse on the land. Haggai 1:10-11. In reality the work began exactly 9 months after the messages in Haggai 2:10 which was, 24th day 9th month early in Darius's second year (about a year and 2 months into his reign), And began work on the temple structure the 24th day in the 6th month, which is late in Darius's second year (a year and 11 months into Darius's reign). that's in Haggai 1:14-15.

Really what I need to know is are you trying to claim Haggai 1 is not history. Even though Ezra 4:24 states the work on the temple structure resumed in the 2 year of Darius? Just like Haggai says in Haggai 1:14-15. They began to rebuild and were urged by the prophet Haggai and Zechariah? Ezra 5:1-2? Also that the temple was completed on the 3rd day of Adar 6th year of Darius. Ezra 6:14-15 That's what I need to know. Are still saying that despite the bible clearly states this was history, you're still claiming it wasn't?

You can't see what I can see right now. As I stated, the book of Haggai is divided in messages. Every time a day or date is mentioned, it goes to a new message.

 

[stephen583]

And is there anything to suggest your estimation is accurate?

Actually my source is pretty good. A colonel in Air Force Intelligence. We talk pretty regularly about what SAC has and hasn't been up to lately.

I also toured NORAD Cheyenne Mountain while I was in the military. There was quite a commotion at the time while I was there, as the facility went to DEFCON TWO. The big blast doors were closed, (with a perceptible woosh of air) and everybody was quickly escorted to a conference room, where we got a lecture on the kind of situations that could cause a DEFCON TWO alert. So yes. I know a little more about what I'm talking about than you do. Unless you've actually been to Cheyenne Mountain. My Uncle Bill Wallace was also a crew chief on B 52 SAC bombers at Barksdale AFB. You got any relatives who've actually flown on a B 52 bomber loaded with nuclear bombs ?! I didn't think so.

As for the Iranians and Hezbollah fighting alongside the Russians in Iraq and Syria, just keep watching the television news.

 

[stephen583]

Get this through your head. "No construction on the 3rd temple has begun yet in Jerusalem!" Haggai never mentioned the year in his prophecy, just the day and month. You're filling in the blank with your own year speculating it as 2015.

If this prophecy was recently fulfilled, you would see construction of the temple in Jerusalem right now. Get it through your head, nothing has started yet.

The Third Temple is a Jewish MYTH, and that can be proven. Every Scripture used to support the Third Temple theory as concrete evidence, is a blatant misrepresentation of Scripture an Bible Prophecy. In not one instance can it be said these prophecies unequivocally state a Third Jewish Temple will be constructed in Jerusalem. It's based on nothing more than conjecture. Nor is it true these prophecies can "only" be interpreted as referring to a Third Temple. That's complete nonsense. Post' em up here, and I'll knock' em down one after another, showing how Christian doctrine and interpretation contradicts every verse of Scripture used to support the theory of a Third Temple. Go ahead, I've done it before. I've got my notes ready.

"Behold, I come as a thief".. (Revelation 16:15).

Believing in myths, like the Third Temple.. is exactly the reason why the Second Coming is going to come as a complete surprise to so many. I can certainly understand how that kind of "Extreme Futurism" would appeal to lots of people though. You'll certainly be waiting right up to the "Crack of Doom", and you still won't see that theory fulfilled my friend. Popular as it may be.

 

[stephen583]

No one who knows anything about it believes this. Also, even if Iran DID have a functional, nuclear physics package in two years, it would take decades before they'd made enough to be considered "apocalyptic". Not to mention the glaring obvious fact that Iran lacks the three possible means for nuclear delivery, i.e. SLBMs, ICBMs and heavy strategic bombers.

Well I guess we'll just have to tell a bunch of congressmen in Washington to "shut up" cause you know more than they do. We'll also have to burn a bunch of newspapers and news magazines as well, they don't seem to agree with you either. Opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal was pretty fierce and public. So I'd have to say you're opinion is about as relevant as an ostrich sticking its' head "in the sand" to avoid a predator. Pretending there was no vocal political opposition, or print and television media opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal is just a little delusional, don't you think ?! I'd hate to have to wallpaper this thread with stories from the firestorm the Iran Deal created.

Your last point again shows your ignorance. Thermo nuclear weapons can be and are delivered by "tactical" fighter bomber aircraft, as well as artillery. No one needs SLBM'S, ICBM's, or heavy strategic bombers to deliver a thermo nuclear weapon. You're assessment is about forty years behind present technology, especially with the help of the Russians.

So it sounds like you are the "arm chair" general who doesn't know what he's talking about.

I also mentioned earlier in this thread, the Ayatollah of Iran doesn't need dozens of nuclear weapons to fulfill the 75th Sura and Ayah of the Koran, thereby delivering his people to Paradise and the Day of Judgment. All he needs is one. After Tel Aviv is destroyed, Israel will take care of the Apocalypse. I know it sounds insane, but you'd have to be an insane religious zealot to understand the logic of committing suicide as a means of attaining paradise. I believe we've seen enough martyrs blowing themselves up with explosive vests to take that theological threat quite serious by now.

 

[Armoured]

Well I guess we'll just have to tell a bunch of congressmen in Washington to "shut up" cause you know more than they do. We'll also have to burn a bunch of newspapers and news magazines as well, they don't seem to agree with you either. Opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal was pretty fierce and public. So I'd have to say you're opinion is about as relevant as an ostrich sticking its' head "in the sand" to avoid a predator. Pretending there was no vocal political opposition, or print and television media opposition to the Iran Nuclear Deal is just a little delusional, don't you think ?! I'd hate to have to wallpaper this thread with stories from the firestorm the Iran Deal created.

Your last point again shows your ignorance. Thermo nuclear weapons can be and are delivered by "tactical" fighter bomber aircraft, as well as artillery. No one needs SLBM'S, ICBM's, or heavy strategic bombers to deliver a thermo nuclear weapon. You're assessment is about forty years behind present technology, especially with the help of the Russians.

So it sounds like you are the "arm chair" general who doesn't know what he's talking about.

I also mentioned earlier in this thread, the Ayatollah of Iran doesn't need dozens of nuclear weapons to fulfill the 75th Sura and Ayah of the Koran, thereby delivering his people to Paradise and the Day of Judgment. All he needs is one. After Tel Aviv is destroyed, Israel will take care of the Apocalypse. I know it sounds insane, but you'd have to be an insane religious zealot to understand the logic of committing suicide as a means of attaining paradise. I believe we've seen enough martyrs blowing themselves up with explosive vests to take that theological threat quite serious by now.

No thermonuclear weapon has EVER been fitted to a tactical aircraft or fired from artillery. Ever. The US mucked around with some mall tactical nuclear weapons that could be, but things in the kiloton range don't really meet the standard of apocalyptic, nor are they really a viable way to deliver nuclear weapons far from Iran's borders. You can't put them in suicide vests, either.

Maybe you'd do well to listen to people who have actually been trained by the military on this stuff.

 

[Armoured]

Actually my source is pretty good. A colonel in Air Force Intelligence. We talk pretty regularly about what SAC has and hasn't been up to lately.

I also toured NORAD Cheyenne Mountain while I was in the military. There was quite a commotion at the time while I was there, as the facility went to DEFCON TWO. The big blast doors were closed, (with a perceptible woosh of air) and everybody was quickly escorted to a conference room, where we got a lecture on the kind of situations that could cause a DEFCON TWO alert. So yes. I know a little more about what I'm talking about than you do. Unless you've actually been to Cheyenne Mountain. My Uncle Bill Wallace was also a crew chief on B 52 SAC bombers at Barksdale AFB. You got any relatives who've actually flown on a B 52 bomber loaded with nuclear bombs ?! I didn't think so.

As for the Iranians and Hezbollah fighting alongside the Russians in Iraq and Syria, just keep watching the television news.

You claimed Iranian REPUBLICAN GUARD

Also, if you want to compare military pedigrees, any time.

 

[Psalm3704]

The Third Temple is a Jewish MYTH, and that can be proven. Every Scripture used to support the Third Temple theory as concrete evidence, is a blatant misrepresentation of Scripture an Bible Prophecy.

There's many scriptures detailing the 3th temple (in the tribulation) and the 4th temple (in the millennium). Most people obviously know the book of Revelation is John's prophecy about the tribulation. So go to Revelation 11:1-3 and you see the temple there with the two witnesses who will testify for 1260 days at the temple.

Believing in myths, like the Third Temple.. is exactly the reason why the Second Coming is going to come as a complete surprise to so many.

The Second Coming doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. Everyone will see Him coming in the clouds. Revelation 1:7,Luke 21:27-28.










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[Psalm3704]

Look it's common knowledge Darius made his ascent to the throne in September. You'll have to go to a word for word translation to realize what I'll try to show you, of course. The message in Haggai 2:10-17 came before Haggai 1:1.

No! That's not correct.

Read Haggai 1:1 carefully. It does not tells us Darius became king in September, in fact, you got the wrong month too. You should know the months in the Hebrews Calendar does not line up with the months in the Gregorian Calendar. The NLT has the right month and day based on the second year Darius was in reign.

Haggai 1:1 (NLT) On August 29 of the second year of King Darius’s reign, the LORD gave a message through the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Jeshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest.​

Now read Haggai 1:1 carefully in other translations. Haggai isn't telling us Darius became king, he was telling us on the 9th month of the 2nd year of Darius reign, God came to him and was called to be a prophet. Haggai 1:8, Haggai 1:5-6, Haggai 9-11, Haggai 1:13.

Haggai 1:1 (GNT) During the second year that Darius was emperor of Persia, on the first day of the sixth month, the Lord spoke through the prophet Haggai. The message was for the governor of Judah, Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, and for the High Priest, Joshua son of Jehozadak.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/1-1-compare.html​

God called Haggai and Zechariah to be prophets. The books of Haggai and Zechariah are prophecies about the future 3rd temple. God did NOT call Ezra and Nehemiah to be prophets. Their job was to document what was happening during the construction of the 2nd temple.

Haggai (/ˈhæɡaɪ/; Hebrew: חַגַּי‎, Ḥaggay or Hag-i, Koine Greek: Ἀγγαῖος; Latin: Aggaeus) was a Hebrew prophet during the building of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and one of the twelve minor prophets in the Hebrew Bible and the author of the Book of Haggai.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggai​

Zechariah (/zɛkəˈraɪ.ə/; Hebrew: זְכַרְיָה, Modern Zekharya, Tiberian Zəḵaryā, "YHWH has remembered"; Arabic: زكريّا‎ Zakariya' or Zakkariya; Greek: Ζαχαρίας Zakharias; Latin: Zacharias) was a person in the Hebrew Bible and traditionally considered the author of the Book of Zechariah, the eleventh of the Twelve Minor Prophets. He was a prophet of the two-tribe Kingdom of Judah, and, like the prophet Ezekiel, was of priestly extraction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zechariah_(Hebrew_prophet)​

God did NOT call Ezra and Nehemiah to be prophets. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah are historic books documenting the events of the past during the building of the second temple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehemiah​

You need to get a good bible that can reveal this to you since you have a hard time believing anything I tell you. It'll tell you who the prophets are.

2:10 is in after Darius was king for a year and about 2 months, as he made in ascent around the 7th month (Tishri) Notice how not one stone was upon another in Haggai 2:15 how could there not be 1 stone upon another if the work on the temple structure had already begun? That according to Haggai 1:14-15. there would have to be one stone upon another if the work had already begun. But, it hadn't! That's because Haggai 2:10-17 came first. Ezra 4:24 tells us the work ceased until the second year of Darius. Haggai 1:14-15 tells us the work resumed on the 24th of the 6th month of (Elul)...this was a year and 11 months into the reign of Darius. This message in Haggai 1 came after Haggai 2:10. So because Haggai 2:19 mentions the Lords blessing from that day forward, we know that not referring to that past (520 BC) time . How? Because, the message that comes 9 months later The Lord says he's called for a curse on the land. Haggai 1:10-11. In reality the work began exactly 9 months after the messages in Haggai 2:10 which was, 24th day 9th month early in Darius's second year (about a year and 2 months into his reign), And began work on the temple structure the 24th day in the 6th month, which is late in Darius's second year (a year and 11 months into Darius's reign). that's in Haggai 1:14-15.

Really what I need to know is are you trying to claim Haggai 1 is not history. Even though Ezra 4:24 states the work on the temple structure resumed in the 2 year of Darius? Just like Haggai says in Haggai 1:14-15. They began to rebuild and were urged by the prophet Haggai and Zechariah? Ezra 5:1-2? Also that the temple was completed on the 3rd day of Adar 6th year of Darius. Ezra 6:14-15 That's what I need to know. Are still saying that despite the bible clearly states this was history, you're still claiming it wasn't?

You can't see what I can see right now. As I stated, the book of Haggai is divided in messages. Every time a day or date is mentioned, it goes to a new message.

You're just not getting it. The foundation has to be built first before any shaking can happen. In Haggai 2:18-20, he said on the same day the founda tion was completed, Haggai received from the Lord He will shake heaven and earth.

Haggai 2:18-22 GNT
18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on. 19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”
20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another.

Get this through your head. "No construction on the 3rd temple has begun yet in Jerusalem!"

This is what the temple mount currently looks like in this video. There's no worker there building the foundation.

**************************************
When you see this happening in Jerusalem, than the shaking of heaven and earth is around the corner. This will be all over the news!
When you see this happening, you'll know Daniel's 70th week is near. When you see this happening, you'll know the rapture is near.

This is one of the final prophecy before it all happens. You can NOT have the tribulation without the temple.

Your problem with this prophecy is you've commingled the messages in a prophetic book: Haggai with records from an historic book: Ezra. You've also added messages from Zechariah and records from Nehemiah into the picture trying to combine all four writers to form one speculative conclusion based on two different events.

If you read about the construction of the temple in Ezra and Nehemiah first, than compare the construction of temple prophesied by Haggai and Zechariah, it's 110% clear they are not describing the same temple.


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Different Events in the building of each Temple:

a) Books of 2 Chronicles to Ezra to Nehemiah (documentation on the historic rebuilding of the 2nd Temple).
b) Books of Haggai to Zechariah (prophecy on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple).

a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).

a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13).

a) Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed and became an empty city for 70 years. (2 Chronicles 36:19-21).
b) Jerusalem is occupied with people living in nice homes, producing crops and working. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10).

a) Tribes of Judah and Benjamin returns to the holy land to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple (Ezra 1:5). The other 10 tribes does not return.
b) Jerusalem is already occupied before the construction of the temple. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10)

a) Construction of the temple began immediately after the return of the captives from Babylon after 70 years. (Ezra 3:6-8, 2 Chronicles 36:21).
b) Construction of the temple delay for 70 years after the Jews return to Israel. (Zechariah 1:12, Zechariah 7:5, Daniel 9:2).

a) Foundation of the 2nd temple completed. (Ezra 3:10).
b) Foundation of the 3rd temple completed. (Haggai 2:18).

a) God did not promise great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 2nd temple when the foundation was completed. (Nothing found in 2 Chronicles, Ezra or Nehemiah).
b) God promised great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 3rd temple when the foundation is completed. (Haggai 2:18-19).

a) Construction of the 2nd temple ran into problems and adversity. (Ezra 4-5) The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25).
b) Construction of the 3rd temple will be built with no problems and with aid from people all over the world. (Zechariah 6:15)

a) Construction of Jerusalem also ran into problems and adversity and a wall constructed to protect the city. (Nehemiah 2:19-6:14). The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25). Jerusalem is a city with walls!
b) Jerusalem not in ruins. Jerusalem expands with prosperity without a wall surrounding the city. (Zechariah 2:4-5). Read this again! Jerusalem is a city without walls! (Zechariah 2:4-5). It's also mentioned in Ezekiel's prophecy of future Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 38:11).

a) God does not return to Jerusalem. Nothing found in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God returns to Jerusalem and blesses everything. (Zechariah 1:16-17, Zechariah 8:1-23).

a) Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem during the time of the 2nd temple. (Ezra 1:5).
b) The House of Judah is seen together with the House of Israel. All the tribes of Jacob is back in the holy land. (Zechariah 8:13, Zechariah 10).

a) God never mentioned the shaking of heaven and earth in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God promised to shake heaven and earth. (Haggai 2:6, Haggai 2:21-22)

a) The two witnesses are not seen anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah after the foundation was completed.
b) The two witnesses are revealed in Zechariah 4:12-14.

a) No mentioning of the Lord's return anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah.
b) Christ returns in Zechariah 14:4-5.


They're obviously different books describing the building of two separate temples during different timeline.









.

 

[Fusion77]

No! That's not correct.

Read Haggai 1:1 carefully. It does not tells us Darius became king in September, in fact, you got the wrong month too. You should know the months in the Hebrews Calendar does not line up with the months in the Gregorian Calendar. The NLT has the right month and day based on the second year Darius was in reign.

Haggai 1:1 (NLT) On August 29 of the second year of King Darius’s reign, the LORD gave a message through the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Jeshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest.​

Now read Haggai 1:1 carefully in other translations. Haggai isn't telling us Darius became king, he was telling us on the 9th month of the 2nd year of Darius reign, God came to him and was called to be a prophet. Haggai 1:8, Haggai 1:5-6, Haggai 9-11, Haggai 1:13.

Haggai 1:1 (GNT) During the second year that Darius was emperor of Persia, on the first day of the sixth month, the Lord spoke through the prophet Haggai. The message was for the governor of Judah, Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, and for the High Priest, Joshua son of Jehozadak.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/1-1-compare.html​

God called Haggai and Zechariah to be prophets. The books of Haggai and Zechariah are prophecies about the future 3rd temple. God did NOT call Ezra and Nehemiah to be prophets. Their job was to document what was happening during the construction of the 2nd temple.

Haggai (/ˈhæɡaɪ/; Hebrew: חַגַּי‎, Ḥaggay or Hag-i, Koine Greek: Ἀγγαῖος; Latin: Aggaeus) was a Hebrew prophet during the building of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and one of the twelve minor prophets in the Hebrew Bible and the author of the Book of Haggai.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggai​

Zechariah (/zɛkəˈraɪ.ə/; Hebrew: זְכַרְיָה, Modern Zekharya, Tiberian Zəḵaryā, "YHWH has remembered"; Arabic: زكريّا‎ Zakariya' or Zakkariya; Greek: Ζαχαρίας Zakharias; Latin: Zacharias) was a person in the Hebrew Bible and traditionally considered the author of the Book of Zechariah, the eleventh of the Twelve Minor Prophets. He was a prophet of the two-tribe Kingdom of Judah, and, like the prophet Ezekiel, was of priestly extraction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zechariah_(Hebrew_prophet)​

God did NOT call Ezra and Nehemiah to be prophets. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah are historic books documenting the events of the past during the building of the second temple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehemiah​

You need to get a good bible that can reveal this to you since you have a hard time believing anything I tell you. It'll tell you who the prophets are.



You're just not getting it. The foundation has to be built first before any shaking can happen. In Haggai 2:18-20, he said on the same day the founda tion was completed, Haggai received from the Lord He will shake heaven and earth.

Haggai 2:18-22 GNT
18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on. 19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”
20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another.

Get this through your head. "No construction on the 3rd temple has begun yet in Jerusalem!"

This is what the temple mount currently looks like in this video. There's no worker there building the foundation.

**************************************
When you see this happening in Jerusalem, than the shaking of heaven and earth is around the corner. This will be all over the news!
When you see this happening, you'll know Daniel's 70th week is near. When you see this happening, you'll know the rapture is near.

This is one of the final prophecy before it all happens. You can NOT have the tribulation without the temple.

Your problem with this prophecy is you've commingled the messages in a prophetic book: Haggai with records from an historic book: Ezra. You've also added messages from Zechariah and records from Nehemiah into the picture trying to combine all four writers to form one speculative conclusion based on two different events.

If you read about the construction of the temple in Ezra and Nehemiah first, than compare the construction of temple prophesied by Haggai and Zechariah, it's 110% clear they are not describing the same temple.


.
Different Events in the building of each Temple:

a) Books of 2 Chronicles to Ezra to Nehemiah (documentation on the historic rebuilding of the 2nd Temple).
b) Books of Haggai to Zechariah (prophecy on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple).

a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).

a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13).

a) Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed and became an empty city for 70 years. (2 Chronicles 36:19-21).
b) Jerusalem is occupied with people living in nice homes, producing crops and working. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10).

a) Tribes of Judah and Benjamin returns to the holy land to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple (Ezra 1:5). The other 10 tribes does not return.
b) Jerusalem is already occupied before the construction of the temple. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10)

a) Construction of the temple began immediately after the return of the captives from Babylon after 70 years. (Ezra 3:6-8, 2 Chronicles 36:21).
b) Construction of the temple delay for 70 years after the Jews return to Israel. (Zechariah 1:12, Zechariah 7:5, Daniel 9:2).

a) Foundation of the 2nd temple completed. (Ezra 3:10).
b) Foundation of the 3rd temple completed. (Haggai 2:18).

a) God did not promise great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 2nd temple when the foundation was completed. (Nothing found in 2 Chronicles, Ezra or Nehemiah).
b) God promised great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 3rd temple when the foundation is completed. (Haggai 2:18-19).

a) Construction of the 2nd temple ran into problems and adversity. (Ezra 4-5) The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25).
b) Construction of the 3rd temple will be built with no problems and with aid from people all over the world. (Zechariah 6:15)

a) Construction of Jerusalem also ran into problems and adversity and a wall constructed to protect the city. (Nehemiah 2:19-6:14). The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25). Jerusalem is a city with walls!
b) Jerusalem not in ruins. Jerusalem expands with prosperity without a wall surrounding the city. (Zechariah 2:4-5). Read this again! Jerusalem is a city without walls! (Zechariah 2:4-5). It's also mentioned in Ezekiel's prophecy of future Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 38:11).

a) God does not return to Jerusalem. Nothing found in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God returns to Jerusalem and blesses everything. (Zechariah 1:16-17, Zechariah 8:1-23).

a) Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem during the time of the 2nd temple. (Ezra 1:5).
b) The House of Judah is seen together with the House of Israel. All the tribes of Jacob is back in the holy land. (Zechariah 8:13, Zechariah 10).

a) God never mentioned the shaking of heaven and earth in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God promised to shake heaven and earth. (Haggai 2:6, Haggai 2:21-22)

a) The two witnesses are not seen anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah after the foundation was completed.
b) The two witnesses are revealed in Zechariah 4:12-14.

a) No mentioning of the Lord's return anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah.
b) Christ returns in Zechariah 14:4-5.


They're obviously different books describing the building of two separate temples during different timeline.









.

I NEVER said said Haggai 1:1 tells us when Darius became king. I said It is common (historical) knowledge he became king in September. Based on that common historical knowledge we can see which messages in Haggai came first. Haggai 1:1 came in late August Therefore, Haggai 1 came at the END of DARIUS second year as King. Therefore, it came after Haggai 2:10-17 which came at BEGINNING of Darius's second year as King.



_____ Year 2 start of Darius
September________October________

___________________Haggai 2:10

____November__________December___

January ___February___ March_ April

__ May________June______ July___

Haggai 1:1__1:15 Darius year 3

August_____September_____October___

Haggai 1 is historical. Ezra 4:24 SECOND YEAR OF DARIUS tells when the building resumed. Same as Haggai 1:14-15 SECOND YEAR of Darius. Ezra 4:24 and next verse Ezra 5:1-2 tells us who are building it Hello! Haggai 1:1 states the word of the Lord came by Haggai UNTO ( meaning they received it) in the SECOND YEAR OF DARIUS. The second temple was completed in DARIUS 6th year Ezra 6:14-15. This what the Original language says!

Your view that Haggai 1 in not history is DEBUNKED through the historical accounts of EZRA THE SCRIBE!!

If you're going to disregard the CLEAR account of Ezra the SCRIBE relating Haggai 1:14-15 to Ezra 4:24 and Ezra 5:1-2. To the building of the second temple structure. Then you have proven you are at best, confused.

 

[Luke17:37]

There is NOT going to be a war until WWIII comes close to ending all of mankind - but that won't happen until the end of Tribulation, which hasn't begun yet.
When the Tribulation does arrive, the antichrist will bring about worldwide peace - until God ends those peace treaties.

Look, you might be right, but you can't know [from the Bible], so why argue so strongly? The Bible doesn't say. What if it's World War IV or V?

 

[Luke17:37]

Really forgot about that movie,however Im not talking hollywood...Israel is not a place without walls America is....

One must understand who Israel is,not Judah....

I think you are assuming that Gog/Magog happens twice--once in Ezekiel 38-39 during or before the Tribulation and once after the Millenniel return of Christ (Revelation 20). Because you can't fit modern Israel into the prophecy, you think Ezekiel 38-39 is about America instead.

America does not replace Israel. We are not that important. We aren't even in the Bible at all, unless we are the Mystery Babylon the Great. (Some do, but I'm not going to argue that point right now.)

When you read Revelation 20, it's very straightforward that Gog/Magog happens after the millennium, when Satan is released from prison for a short time to deceive the nations.

Unless there are two Gog/Magog battles, which there is no reason to assume, Ezekiel 38-39 is describing this same battle.

In the peaceful millennial kingdom when Jesus reigns, people will "beat their swords into pruning hooks" and the nations "won't train for war anymore." The animals will also have peace with each other and with man, lifetimes will increase, and the pain of childbirth will be removed (See Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 11, and Isaiah 65). In Isaiah 11, it talks about Messiah gathering Jewish people into Israel from the other nations, such as Egypt and Assyria. Take one thousand years of peace with Jesus reigning, the removal of most of the curse, and no Satan to deceive and you have a pretty idyllic scene for Satan to work with when he is released.

Ezekiel 38:8
8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.

Ezekiel 38:11
11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’—

I know that Joel Rosenberg and others teach a Gog/Magog battle preceding Christ's return--I'm guessing Rosenberg significantly popularized this interpretation through his books. I just don't think this idea proceeds naturally from the text. I think you have to either ignore or reframe key points (like you were doing, ascribing this prophecy to America) in order to do this. Rosenberg and many others--everyone who is popular--also maintain belief in Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which I also consider unbiblical. And I guess this is a Post-Tribulation Only thread, so you do, too.

 

[Psalm3704]

Haggai 1 is historical. Ezra 4:24 SECOND YEAR OF DARIUS tells when the building resumed. Same as Haggai 1:14-15 SECOND YEAR of Darius. Ezra 4:24 and next verse Ezra 5:1-2 tells us who are building it Hello! Haggai 1:1 states the word of the Lord came by Haggai UNTO ( meaning they received it) in the SECOND YEAR OF DARIUS. The second temple was completed in DARIUS 6th year Ezra 6:14-15. This what the Original language says!

Your view that Haggai 1 in not history is DEBUNKED through the historical accounts of EZRA THE SCRIBE!!

If you're going to disregard the CLEAR account of Ezra the SCRIBE relating Haggai 1:14-15 to Ezra 4:24 and Ezra 5:1-2. To the building of the second temple structure. Then you have proven you are at best, confused.

Do you actually know how to debunk someone? You can't disprove someone's claim as false by merely saying "Haggai 1 is history and Ezra tells us. Ezra 4:24 work ceased until 2 year of Darius. Work resumes in Second year of Darius Haggai 1:14-15 see that second year of Darius." because Haggai did "NOT INDICATED CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE RESUMED" in the second year. Haggai said the building of the temple started in the second year. Haggai never mentioned work was done in building a temple prior to 1:14-15.

Now do you understand at all what Haggai wrote? Just what he wrote alone! As I said before, you're commingling Haggai's book into Ezra's book deceiving yourself by combining two different stories ending up with a false interpretation.

If you wanna debunk someone, present indisputable evidence like this below.

In Haggai 2:1-3, it reveals on the 21st day of the 7th month, God praised the glory and splendor the this temple before the foundation could be finished on the 24th day of the 9th month, Haggai 2:18. God is telling us this temple is already magnificent!

Haggai 2:3 (GNT) "Is there anyone among you who can still remember how splendid the Temple used to be? How does it look to you now? It must seem like nothing at all.​

Haggai 2:9 (GNT) The new Temple will be more splendid than the old one, and there I will give my people prosperity and peace." The Lord Almighty has spoken.​

The first temple made by Solomon was constructed with the riches and wealth of King Solomon. Filled with gold, other precious stones, jewelries, fine incenses, etc and the Ark of the Covenant. It was the most spectacular temple among the two temples.

The construction of the second temple was built by captives returning from exile living in the wilderness. They were poor! The construction of the temple was probably originally made with wood and tin. The second temple never contained the Ark of the Covenant even during Herod's time of reign.

Do you understand what this means? Do you understand at all what Haggai wrote in Haggai 2:3 and Haggai 2:9?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/2-3-compare.html
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/2-9-compare.html

If the temple described by Haggai is the same temple as Ezra, how in the world can God claim this temple is better than Solomon's Temple? The construction of Solomon's Temple verses the second temple is like night and day, there was no comparison! Solomon's temple was vastly superior!

Do you understand why the temple took roughly 420 years to complete? It had to be renovated a few times because it was just a shabby temple, unfit for God. It wasn't until Herod came into power had he wanted to gain the acceptance of the Jewish people that he ordered a complete renovation on the second temple. The temple was completely upgraded, expanded and finally finished around 64 AD.

Do you understand now? There's no freakin way in the world Haggai was writing about the same temple as Ezra. Haggai 2:3 and 2:9 are absolutely, undeniably, indisputably clear, Haggai and Ezra were NOT writing about the same temple.

*******************************************************

Do you know what's gonna happen when they build Zerubbabel's (3rd) Temple during the first year of the tribulation?

Ark of the Covenant Returned to Jerusalem
https://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/in-israel/local/ark-of-the-covenant-returned-to-jerusalem-8808

The rabbi, the lost ark and the future of Temple Mount
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-lost-ark-and-the-future-of-Temple-Mount.html

The Ark of the Covenant will be in the Holy of Holies within the temple.

***************************************

Do you know what else is gonna happen during the construction of the 3rd temple during the tribulation?

Jerusalem will be a city without walls! The current wall surrounding the city will be coming down, (Zechariah 2:4-5). Just as Ezekiel prophesied, (Ezekiel 38:11) when many nations will invade Jerusalem without a wall during the tribulation.

Nehemiah goes into deep detail of a wall being built around Jerusalem during the time of the second temple. (Nehemiah 2:19-7:3).

How can Haggai and Ezra be writing about the same temple when one temple is in Jerusalem having walls surrounding the city and the other temple in Jerusalem does not have walls?

*************************************

Your only argument thus far that Haggai's prophecies are mostly past is based only on Darius' name being mentioned and speculating Haggai's and Ezra's writings to be the same.

Well guess what, Darius name is only mentioned 3 times in the book of Haggai. Haggai 1:1, Haggai 1:15 and Haggai 2:10.

Darius name is also mentioned in the prophetic book of Zechariah and numerous times in Daniel. Does Darius name also make those books historic too?

And just because you say so, it doesn't prove Ezra and Haggai to be the same book. One is historic, while the other is prophetic. You haven't proven or disprove anything yet.







.

 

[Extraneous]

Key scripture IMO

Hebrews 13:14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come

 

[Luke17:37]

Key scripture IMO

Hebrews 13:14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come

Absolutely! Hebrews 13:14 reminds me of 2 Peter 3:10-14...

2 Peter 3:10-14
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

We shouldn't be hanging on to this earth, which is passing away (as Lot's wife did). Instead, we should be focused on eternity with Christ, being found in His righteousness.

1 John 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

 

[Fusion77]

Do you actually know how to debunk someone? You can't disprove someone's claim as false by merely saying "Haggai 1 is history and Ezra tells us. Ezra 4:24 work ceased until 2 year of Darius. Work resumes in Second year of Darius Haggai 1:14-15 see that second year of Darius." because Haggai did "NOT INDICATED CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE RESUMED" in the second year. Haggai said the building of the temple started in the second year. Haggai never mentioned work was done in building a temple prior to 1:14-15.

Now do you understand at all what Haggai wrote? Just what he wrote alone! As I said before, you're commingling Haggai's book into Ezra's book deceiving yourself by combining two different stories ending up with a false interpretation.

If you wanna debunk someone, present indisputable evidence like this below.

In Haggai 2:1-3, it reveals on the 21st day of the 7th month, God praised the glory and splendor the this temple before the foundation could be finished on the 24th day of the 9th month, Haggai 2:18. God is telling us this temple is already magnificent!

Haggai 2:3 (GNT) "Is there anyone among you who can still remember how splendid the Temple used to be? How does it look to you now? It must seem like nothing at all.​

Haggai 2:9 (GNT) The new Temple will be more splendid than the old one, and there I will give my people prosperity and peace." The Lord Almighty has spoken.​

The first temple made by Solomon was constructed with the riches and wealth of King Solomon. Filled with gold, other precious stones, jewelries, fine incenses, etc and the Ark of the Covenant. It was the most spectacular temple among the two temples.

The construction of the second temple was built by captives returning from exile living in the wilderness. They were poor! The construction of the temple was probably originally made with wood and tin. The second temple never contained the Ark of the Covenant even during Herod's time of reign.

Do you understand what this means? Do you understand at all what Haggai wrote in Haggai 2:3 and Haggai 2:9?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/2-3-compare.html
http://www.biblestudytools.com/haggai/2-9-compare.html

If the temple described by Haggai is the same temple as Ezra, how in the world can God claim this temple is better than Solomon's Temple? The construction of Solomon's Temple verses the second temple is like night and day, there was no comparison! Solomon's temple was vastly superior!

Do you understand why the temple took roughly 420 years to complete? It had to be renovated a few times because it was just a shabby temple, unfit for God. It wasn't until Herod came into power had he wanted to gain the acceptance of the Jewish people that he ordered a complete renovation on the second temple. The temple was completely upgraded, expanded and finally finished around 64 AD.

Do you understand now? There's no freakin way in the world Haggai was writing about the same temple as Ezra. Haggai 2:3 and 2:9 are absolutely, undeniably, indisputably clear, Haggai and Ezra were NOT writing about the same temple.

*******************************************************

Do you know what's gonna happen when they build Zerubbabel's (3rd) Temple during the first year of the tribulation?

Ark of the Covenant Returned to Jerusalem
https://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/in-israel/local/ark-of-the-covenant-returned-to-jerusalem-8808

The rabbi, the lost ark and the future of Temple Mount
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-lost-ark-and-the-future-of-Temple-Mount.html

The Ark of the Covenant will be in the Holy of Holies within the temple.

***************************************

Do you know what else is gonna happen during the construction of the 3rd temple during the tribulation?

Jerusalem will be a city without walls! The current wall surrounding the city will be coming down, (Zechariah 2:4-5). Just as Ezekiel prophesied, (Ezekiel 38:11) when many nations will invade Jerusalem without a wall during the tribulation.

Nehemiah goes into deep detail of a wall being built around Jerusalem during the time of the second temple. (Nehemiah 2:19-7:3).

How can Haggai and Ezra be writing about the same temple when one temple is in Jerusalem having walls surrounding the city and the other temple in Jerusalem does not have walls?

*************************************

Your only argument thus far that Haggai's prophecies are mostly past is based only on Darius' name being mentioned and speculating Haggai's and Ezra's writings to be the same.

Well guess what, Darius name is only mentioned 3 times in the book of Haggai. Haggai 1:1, Haggai 1:15 and Haggai 2:10.

Darius name is also mentioned in the prophetic book of Zechariah and numerous times in Daniel. Does Darius name also make those books historic too?

And just because you say so, it doesn't prove Ezra and Haggai to be the same book. One is historic, while the other is prophetic. You haven't proven or disprove anything yet.







.

The bible clearly states Ezra 4:24 Ezra 5:1-2 is speaking of the same time and same event as Haggai 1:14-15. Haggai 1:8 explains the context of Haggai 1 is building the Second temple. Then the building on that second temple is completed about 3.5 years later. Ezra 6:14-15. The bible clearly states this. I will not disregard the bible. The bible debunks your false view, not me!


It appears you continue to use a smoke screen concerning what I say. So I'll restate again... IN THE BOOK OF HAGGAI ONLY, when DARIUS name is mentioned when a day or date is given it signifies it is a message for the past. If DARIUS name is not mentioned when a day or date is given it is a message for the future. ONLY IN THE BOOK OF HAGGAI! This can usually only be realized in word for word translations.

Haggai 2:1-9 FUTURE. Haggai 2:9 the LORD will give PEACE. This is the MILLENIAL TEMPLE. We won't know true peace until the Lord returns. If the Lord says he will give peace, he means true eternal peace. Haggai 2:9 millenial temple! Haggai 2:1 Darius's name not there...FUTURE MESSAGE!

You're confusing the third temple with the Millenial temple. Do you know why there will be no walls around Jerusalem? Because the LORD HIMSELF WILL BE A WALL OF FIRE. Zechariah 2:4-5 Millenial ERA! Or are you saying the Lord will sit in the midst of Jerusalem when the third temple is standing? Wrong again? MILLENIAL ERA!!!!!

Zechariah 3:8 Joshua is a type of the Branch (Messiah) it says right here! Same encounter with the same angel. Zechariah 6:11-12 crowning the high priest as King. HE shall build the temple of the Lord! That's symbolic of Christ! He will build the Temple of the Lord Zechariah 6:13 the he sits on the throne of David eternally as high priest. He will rule with PEACE ETERNALLY! Do have the gall to suggest Christ is coming to build the third temple? Zechariah 6:14-15 is NOT speaking of the third temple. Joshua the high priest is a symbol of the Branch IN ZECHARIAH 3 and 6 for starters. Read Zechariah 3:8 he is a symbol of the Branch. Isaiah 11:1 Jeremiah 33:15-16 THE PEOPLE will dwell in SAFETY! MILLENIAL! Zechariah 3:9 this is the stone in Zion Isaiah 28:16 the SPIRIT of the Lord will be upon HIM. Isaiah 11:2 The 7 eyes upon the Stone are the 7 Spirits Revelation 5:6



Haggai 2:20-21 is a message to ZERUBBABEL! You have no concept of who Zerubbabel is!

If you want to continue to lean on your own misunderstanding, that's your choice.

If you think Zechariah 2:1-5 is talking about the third temple...and you're expecting Jesuse to be a a wall of fire while the third temple is standing. Furthermore, that He will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem during that time the third temple is up...I rest my case! YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

Zechariah 14:16-17 And Zechariah 14:8-9 speak of the same time as Zechariah 2:4-5. This is NOT during the third temple is era! The Lord will be king over all the earth and reign from Jerusalem. He will be a wall of fire around the city and dwell in the midst! This is speaking of the MILLENIAL ERA!!!


Maybe it's your pre trib theology that limits you to understanding basic eschatological principles?