There is no Creation Debate

[Subduction Zone]

My side wasn't there

I know, your side lost so badly that they weren't even considered any longer.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

You know, I remember when we used to accept that what God said was true but it seems that when man decided he could do better than God and ditched the guide book, all hell was let loose.

Because we figured out explanations to things we thought were supernatural. All hell wasn't let loose either. Science has improved the quality of life greatly. "I don't understand something, therefore God did it" does not move us forward.

For instance, I only ever knew two women who got pregnant who were not married. Today, they get pregnant at the drop of a hat with whoever they like and a lot of the time they don't even know who the father of the baby is but no worries.

Why do you concern yourself with someone else's sex and family life? Why is that your business?

We can have the baby killed because the government says it is legal to have your own baby killed if it is a nuisance

This isn't a thread about abortion. If you want to discuss it, open a new thread. Otherwise, this is a red herring. Stay on topic.
Would you like to address the evidence presented to you for evolution instead of trying to derail a thread?

 

[dad]

Yes, but that was no excuse to bring up some unrelated paranoia.

Obama king of constitution?

 

[dad]

I know, your side lost so badly that they weren't even considered any longer.

My side is God's. Who cares about blind nobodies of the nethermost regions of your dreams?

 

[tiglathpileser]

Including those good folk who want to put homosexuals and abortion providers to death?

Steve said this in post 355. Apparently that is OK because he is an atheist.

We can have the baby killed because the government says it is legal to have your own baby killed if it is a nuisance.

I said this but apparently this is not OK because I am not an atheist.

Or is it a case of Steve said something that didn't upset Jon or agreed with his take on things and what I said didn't agree with his take on things. I have a feeling that it is the latter as I have noticed atheists don't usually criticise anything another atheist says even though it is baloney.

Not to worry. I guess these atheists who are here trying to help us understand reality have the best of motives so all we have to do is say there, there don't worry your little heads about things. Our future is assured regardless of the fact that we may or may not be perfect as the bible says that "As many as receive him, he gives the right to become sons of God, even to those that believe on his name."

It doesn't say. "As many as understand everything like an atheist does or thinks he does, I give the right to be a son of God even to those that believe everything that Richard Dawkins says."

And moderator, if I have hit a raw nerve with our dear atheists and they report me for flaming, I will take my medicine like a man. I have learnt that if you can't laugh at yourself life is not worth living.

 

[tiglathpileser]

I do have to wonder where people get the idea the world is a better place now that atheism is king.

I read a few weeks ago that we have more displaced persons than we have ever had in the history of mankind. I guess that is better than having no displaced persons.

I read that there are approximately 22 million women and children who are in sexual slavery. I guess that is better than having none.

I read that despite the world having enough food to feed everyone, there are millions dying of starvation. I guess that is better than having no one starving.

I read that suicide is on the rise and it is as high as it has ever been. I guess that is better than having no suicides.

I believe there are more homeless now than there has ever been. I guess that is better than having no one homeless.

I believe the number of people that are dying of AIDS is at an all time high. But I guess that is better than having no one dying of AIDS.

Because of war, famine and AIDS, there are more orphans in Africa than at anytime before. But I guess that is better than having no orphans.

No doubt about it. The world is definitely a better place now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Obama king of constitution?

Obama was never the topic. He is far from perfect. Why did you bring him up? I guess that you were just admitting defeat again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My side is God's. Who cares about blind nobodies of the nethermost regions of your dreams?

Nope. Your side is only your personal interpretation of the Bible. There is no valid reason to think that is "God's side". In fact claiming that God is on your side is always extremely presumptive and even blasphemous.

And you have no clue as to my personal beliefs. It is best that you don't go there.

 

[tiglathpileser]

When you read these verse you realise how much God is involved in creation.....

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of creation "God made them male and female." Gen. 1:27

The New Testament here is confirming what the Old Testament says which proves once again that the bible is the best commentary on the bible. This verse was written thousands of years after the original so it does confirm that God's creation is based on the male and female, not the male and male or the female and female and that he has never deviated from that.

Romans 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, both His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Here the scriptures are telling us that although we did not see God creating the heavens and the earth, we see them now and his eternal power and Godhead are evident by those things that he created so we are without excuse in rejecting the God of creation and salvation.

At the same time it is saying there is no need to speculate about creation because we can see the evidence for it very clearly. If nothing else, the amazing galaxies of stars which can be the product of nothing or as this verse says, a product of the eternal power of God.

Romans 8:21 that also the creation will be freed from the slavery of corruption to the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Here is a verse for the believers to rejoice in. Both mankind and creation were subject to corruption. For mankind that halted through the death of Jesus on the cross as regeneration became a reality through the shed blood of Jesus. As mankind is freed from the corruption of sin by the blood, so too will the creation be freed through the regenerative experience of the sons of God as they will run parallel to each other.

This verse makes it very clear that God is the master of the universe and nothing that man can do will change that. We may try and brush him aside to allow our man made theories to reign supreme, but the writing's on the wall already and it only a matter of time before we see God rise up and recapture his creation for his glory.

As it has been said, there is no creation debate. Only those who cannot face reality think there is.

 

[tiglathpileser]

"Made" or "evolved", we don't consider a god had anything to do with it.

We have been told that the atheists are flooding our forums because they want to help us understand the world we live in better. (titter).

Now, when you have devoted 62 years to studying scripture and understanding the God of the universe who created the heavens and earth, pray tell me anyone how a comment like the one above is going to help us understand the world we live in better?

The bible is very clear that God had everything to do with the creation of the heavens and the earth. He made it a beautiful place for our benefit and pleasure and everyone and everything lived in harmony with each other.

Here is a little thought for you. I have a garden that grows various flowers. Some are big some are small some are delicate and some are not so delicate. I go round the garden doing a survey of the makeup of the flowers and I can see the minute details of each one. They are so different and so original and that adds to their beauty. I would go so far as to say everyone is different even in its own species.

Are they the product of chance or the product of a creative God. There is no creation debate if you prefer to attribute to God what he has created. If you don't consider God had anything to do with it of course you are going to claim there is a creation debate as that will allow you to impose a man made theory onto something that really needs no debate.

Saying we don't consider God had anything to do with it is hardly going to help us understand our world better. What it does help us understand is that there is a section of society who God revealing himself to us in numerous ways, not least his creation, would have us believe that they are infinite by knowing that God does not exist because they say he does not exist.

My car is a Lamborghini because I said it is. If any of you would like a ride in it I have to warn you. It is not a Lamborghini no matter what I said it is.

 

[The Cadet]

I do have to wonder where people get the idea the world is a better place now that atheism is king.

Pick a decade in the world that was more peaceful, less disease-ridden, or where the quality of life was higher. Go on, I dare you.

I believe the number of people that are dying of AIDS is at an all time high. But I guess that is better than having no one dying of AIDS.

Nope.

Because we found effective treatments to deal with both the spread and mortality of the disease, and got wise as to how it spreads and how to prevent it, the death and diagnosis rates have both gone down considerably since the 90s. And medicine is only getting better at dealing with it. You're wrong.

I read that despite the world having enough food to feed everyone, there are millions dying of starvation. I guess that is better than having no one starving.

When has there ever been "no one starving"? I mean, forget 2000 years ago (where the human population was essentially capped by the amount of available food, and starvation was an extremely common occurrence the world over), in the last 40 years, starvation in developing countries has gone down by more than half.

The proportion of malnourished and of starving people in the world has been more or less continually decreasing for at least several centuries.[18] This is due to an increasing supply of food and to overall gains in economic efficiency. In 40 years, the proportion of malnourished people in the developing world has been more than halved. The proportion of starving people has decreased even faster.​

I read that there are approximately 22 million women and children who are in sexual slavery. I guess that is better than having none.

Again, when has there ever been none? The raw numbers are up, but the total world population is also way up, so I can't tell if it's actually worse. Either way, it's a tragedy and should be combatted, but slavery has always existed. Your bible explicitly gives instructions on how much to pay for slaves, how hard you can beat them, and how to fool them into remaining your slave forever.

I believe there are more homeless now than there has ever been. I guess that is better than having no one homeless.

When has there ever been no homeless?

Look, the world we have today is not perfect. It's not Star Trek. We have wars. We have starvation. We have homeless people (although in the USA, the number has been dropping steadily for the last few years). We have disease. But what are we comparing it to? To Star Trek? To some hypothetical fantasy universe in which everything is perfect? See, here's what you miss:

No doubt about it. The world is definitely a better place now.

Yes, actually it is! We may have AIDS, but Plague, Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Polio, Diphtheria, and many more have been largely eradicated in the first world, and their influence in developed nations has reduced significantly (and AIDS mortality is down too). Starvation still exists, but while it used to be a hard cap on human population, now it's limited to developing countries, and rare there. By every metric, the world today is more healthy, more long-lived, more happy, more peaceful, and more well-fed than at almost any point in the past.

 

[lasthero]

I do have to wonder where people get the idea the world is a better place now that atheism is king.

There are still relatively few atheists in the world. I don't know why so many religious people seem to think atheists are everywhere. They're not.a

I read a few weeks ago that we have more displaced persons than we have ever had in the history of mankind. I guess that is better than having no displaced persons.

Where did you read this?

I read that there are approximately 22 million women and children who are in sexual slavery. I guess that is better than having none.

I'd like to see where you read that. Also, about two hundred years ago, slavery was a completely legal institution in many places across the world, including the USA. Speaking as a black man, I find the current state of affairs to be a vast improvement.

I read that despite the world having enough food to feed everyone, there are millions dying of starvation. I guess that is better than having no one starving.

At what point in human history has NO ONE been starving?

I believe there are more homeless now than there has ever been. I guess that is better than having no one homeless.

There was never a time when NO ONE was homeless. Also, where are you reading this stuff?

I believe the number of people that are dying of AIDS is at an all time high. But I guess that is better than having no one dying of AIDS.

Cadet covered this one quite well.

Because of war, famine and AIDS, there are more orphans in Africa than at anytime before. But I guess that is better than having no orphans.

Again, when was this golden age of human history where NO ORPHAS EXISTED.

No doubt about it. The world is definitely a better place now.

Well, let's see. Crime rates are lower, life expectancy is higher, quality of life in general is higher. Again, speaking as a black man, I know I wouldn't want to go back to the world of two hundred years ago, or even one hundred. But that's just me. I prefer to live in a world where white men won't lynch me for looking at their women. You can go back to this mythical golden time where nothing bad seemed to happen to anyone if you like, but i'll stay here in the era of society where people don't die from polio.

 

[lasthero]

We have been told that the atheists are flooding our forums because they want to help us understand the world we live in better. (titter).

Who told you that?

 

[The Cadet]

Again, speaking as a black man, I know I wouldn't want to go back to the world of two hundred years ago, or even one hundred.

Yeah, actually, this is a pretty valuable point to make. If you are black, or gay, or a woman, traveling back in time means losing your rights or even your life. The only people who can really travel back in time are straight white men. This should tell us a good bit about how much better things have gotten, shouldn't it?

 

[tiglathpileser]

I can't help note that so many of the writers here want to know where I saw what I saw. I find that a bit strange as I would have expected that if you are going to write on a public forum you will know what you're talking about. It is no use seeing things from a single perspective and then expecting everyone else seeing it the same way as you do.

Personally I don't care where anyone saw anything or read anything. There is a reason for that. One day an atheist posted a list of 100 names to prove something he said. I looked up the internet and found the list of names and the list of names had nothing at all to do with the subject matter.

When I confronted him with that fact, he suddenly went silent. So, saying you saw something here or there is often not worth the paper it is written on especially if you are in the habit of lying.

In another case, no in many cases, a person quotes something and when I look it up I find that the quote is taken out of context.

So, I find the best way to find out something if I don't already know, is to look it up for myself and then I don't get the distorted or doctored view or one that is only intended to back up a one sided view of the topic. Most of the time what I post is the result of checking many different views so that I get a good overall perspective on things.

Finally, I do not do other people's homework. if you want to know about something, do your own research as I have done and do.

 

[tiglathpileser]

What is human trafficking?

A $32 billion annual industry, modern day trafficking is a type of slavery that involves the transport or trade of people for the purpose of work. According to the U.N., about 2.5 million people around the world are ensnared in the web of human trafficking at any given time.

Human trafficking impacts people of all backgrounds, and people are trafficked for a variety of purposes. Men are often trafficked into hard labor jobs, while children are trafficked into labor positions in textile, agriculture and fishing industries. Women and girls are typically trafficked into the commercial sex industry, i.e. prostitution or other forms of sexual exploitation.

Not all slaves are trafficked, but all trafficking victims are victims of slavery. Human trafficking is a particularly cruel type of slavery because it removes the victim from all that is familiar to her, rendering her completely isolated and alone, often unable to speak the language of her captors or fellow victims.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Depending on your definition of war, the USA is currently involved in 134 wars.

 

[lasthero]

I can't help note that so many of the writers here want to know where I saw what I saw. I find that a bit strange as I would have expected that if you are going to write on a public forum you will know what you're talking about.

Not nescessarily. People make stuff up on the internet all the time.

Personally I don't care where anyone saw anything or read anything. There is a reason for that. One day an atheist posted a list of 100 names to prove something he said. I looked up the internet and found the list of names and the list of names had nothing at all to do with the subject matter.

So? How does what one atheist did excuse you from backing up claims?

When I confronted him with that fact, he suddenly went silent. So, saying you saw something here or there is often not worth the paper it is written on especially if you are in the habit of lying.

So?

Finally, I do not do other people's homework. if you want to know about something, do your own research as I have done and do.

So, basically, because an atheist lied to you once, you don't have to back up anything you say? What kind of logic is that?

 

[lasthero]

What is human trafficking?

A $32 billion annual industry, modern day trafficking is a type of slavery that involves the transport or trade of people for the purpose of work. According to the U.N., about 2.5 million people around the world are ensnared in the web of human trafficking at any given time.

Are you aware that this actually contradicts what you posted earlier?

I read that there are approximately 22 million women and children who are in sexual slavery. I guess that is better than having none.

It seems like you learned a few things from that atheist who lied to you.

At any rate, what's your point? Yes, there are people in slavery across the world. The difference between now and the past, though, is that this practice is largely illegal worldwide, and it's nowhere near as widespread and prevalent as it once was.

No one is arguing that the world is perfect. But it has substantially improved just in the past few decades.

 

[lasthero]

Depending on your definition of war, the USA is currently involved in 134 wars.

Under what definition of war would that be?