Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[BABerean2]

Do you imagine that I wrote Revelation 14?

No. Neither did Scofield, but He put John Darby's interpretation on the notes he wrote about the passage.

He ignored Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9 that there is only One Gospel.

The Gospel preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost and at the house of Cornelius is the same Gospel that Paul preached. Paul called it his Gospel, because it had become the focus of his life.
He is also the one who said there is only One Gospel.

Your interpretation would have Paul condemning Peter for preaching another Gospel.
This creates conflict and clearly cannot be the correct interpretation.
.

 

[iamlamad]

Your post was on the right track until you started claiming there is more than One Gospel.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

................................................................................

I sounds a little like what we find in Scofield's notes at Rev. 14:6 in the Scofield Reference Bible below.


Revelation 14:6




gospel

Gospel. This great theme may be summarized as follows:

I. In itself, the word Gospel means good news.



II. Four forms of the Gospel are to be distinguished:

(1) The Gospel of the kingdom. This is the good news that God purposes to set up on the earth, in fulfilment of the Davidic Covenant: (2Sa_7:16): a kingdom, political, spiritual, Israelitish, universal, over which God's Son, David's heir, shall be King, and which shall be, for one thousand years, the manifestation of the righteousness of God in human affairs.

(See Scofield) - (Mat_3:2).

Two preachings of this Gospel are mentioned, one past, beginning with the ministry of John the Baptist, continued by our Lord and His disciples, and ending with the Jewish rejection of the King. The other is yet future (Mat_24:14) during the great tribulation, and immediately preceding the coming of the King in glory.

(2) The Gospel of the grace of God. This is the good news that Jesus Christ, the rejected King, has died on the cross for the sins of the world, that He was raised from the dead for our justification, and that, by Him, all that believe are justified from all things. This form of the Gospel is described in many ways. It is the Gospel...

"of God" (Rom_1:1) because it originates in His love;

"of Christ" (2Co_10:14) because it flows from His sacrifice, and because He is the alone Object of Gospel faith;

of the "grace of God" (Act_20:24) because it saves those whom the law curses;

of "the glory"; (1Ti_1:11); (2Co_4:4) because it concerns Him who is in the glory, and who is bringing the many sons to glory; (Heb_2:10);

of "our salvation" (Eph_1:13) because it is the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth"; (Rom_1:16);

of "the uncircumcision" (Gal_2:7) because it saves wholly apart from forms and ordinances of "peace" (Eph_6:15) because through Christ it makes peace between the sinner and God, and imparts inward peace.

(3) The everlasting Gospel. (Rev_14:6). This is to be preached to the earth-dwellers at the very end of the great tribulation and immediately preceding the judgment of the nations (Mat_15:31). It is neither the Gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace. Though its burden is judgment, not salvation, it is good news to Israel and to those who, during the tribulation, have been saved; (Rev_7:9-14); (Luk_21:28); (Psa_96:11-13); (Isa_35:4-10).

(4) That which Paul calls, "my Gospel" (Rom_2:16). This is the Gospel of the grace of God in its fullest development, but includes the revelation of the result of that Gospel in the outcalling of the church, her relationships, position, privileges, and responsibility. It is the distinctive truth of Ephesians and Colossians, but interpenetrates all of Paul's writings.



III. There is "another Gospel" (Gal_1:6); (2Co_11:4) "which is not another," but a perversion of the Gospel of the grace of God, against which we are warned. It has many seductive forms, but the test is one -- it invariably denies the sufficiency of grace alone to save, keep, and perfect, and mingles with grace some kind of human merit. In Galatia it was law, in Colosse fanaticism (Col_2:18); etc. In any form, its teachers lie under the awful anathema of God.



angel

(See Scofield) - (Heb_1:4).

..............................................................................

There is only One Gospel.
The Church will be here until the time of Christ's Second Coming.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
.

I guess then you need to REWRITE Rev. 14:6, and all verses that say "gospel of the Kingdom." Do you understand we in the age of Grace will be judged by PAUL's gospel"?

But do you imagine that Abraham will be judged by Paul's gospel? How about David, Methuselah, Ahab, etc? How about those born during the 1000 year reign of Christ? How about those who are living in the Rev. 14 days who have never heard ANY gospel until the angel brings it - will THEY be judged by Paul's gospel, having NEVER HEARD IT?

 

[iamlamad]

No. Neither did Scofield, but He put John Darby's interpretation on the notes he wrote about the passage.

He ignored Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9 that there is only One Gospel.

The Gospel preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost and at the house of Cornelius is the same Gospel that Paul preached. Paul called it his Gospel, because it had become the focus of his life.
He is also the one who said there is only One Gospel.

Your interpretation would have Paul condemning Peter for preaching another Gospel.
This creates conflict and clearly cannot be the correct interpretation.
.

You need to REREAD Peter's sermon! In fact, Paul DID condemn Peter. The "gospel" Peter displayed was not according to Paul's gospel with which we will be judged. In fact, Peter was not living up to his gospel:

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Galatians 2:11
11 When Peter came to Antioch, I told him to his face that I was against what he was doing. He was clearly wrong. 12 He used to eat with the Gentiles. But certain men came from a group sent by James. When they arrived, Peter began to draw back. He separated himself from the Gentiles. That’s because he was afraid of the circumcision group sent by James.

Peter was probably eating a bacon lettuce tomato sandwich when the Jews came in. But when he saw them, immediately he dropped his bacon sandwich and sat with the Jews.

Your problem is, you have NO CONCEPT of time. You would have ADAM being judged by Paul's gospel. You should take Scofield's notes to heart on this one, for he was DEAD ON accurate. After all, He quoted scripture for every point of that note. Problem is, you don't LIKE those scriptures. You would condemn John for writing what he wrote in Rev. 14, as if you knew MORE than John and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Postvieww]

I guess then you need to REWRITE Rev. 14:6, and all verses that say "gospel of the Kingdom." Do you understand we in the age of Grace will be judged by PAUL's gospel"?

But do you imagine that Abraham will be judged by Paul's gospel? How about David, Methuselah, Ahab, etc? How about those born during the 1000 year reign of Christ? How about those who are living in the Rev. 14 days who have never heard ANY gospel until the angel brings it - will THEY be judged by Paul's gospel, having NEVER HEARD IT?

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

HERE is the everlasting Gospel for the days of Great Tribulation:

Rev, 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

That's it: the gospel for the tribulation. NO repentance, NO death, burial or resurrection, NO baptism.

Here is Paul's gospel, by which WE will be judged:

1 Cor. 15
15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
From other scriptures believing He was only a prophet or a good man would not save them. One must believe he died, was buried and rose from the dead.

BOTH of these are "the everlasting Gospel, but they are as different as night and day. OF COURSE Abraham would not be judged by Paul's gospel - no anyone else who lived and died before Jesus came.

Here is Peter's prescription for Jews:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again even a difference with Peter's gospel. Paul said God never sent him to baptize, telling us that for Gentiles, baptism probably is not so important as it was for the Jews. Yet under Paul's ministry some Gentiles were baptized.

Jesus' Gospel was simple: the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. It was called "the gospel of the Kingdom." It was specifically for JEWS and the house of Israel.

 

[Bro.T]

The gospel is not, as most believe, that Jesus is going to take us to heaven. Instead, the "good news" that Jesus preached is...

"...Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God." (Mark 1:14) He even told us to pray to our Heavenly Father, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10)

The Bible declares that "... all have sinned (broken God's law)" (I John 3:4) The penalty for sin is death. Jesus became a sin offering, and died for our sins. To receive eternal life we are commanded to believe the gospel of Jesus (Mark 1:15), repent, get baptized in the name of Jesus, and keep God's commandments. ..."if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17) Many believe keeping God's commandments is not necessary to get eternal life. However, in the last chapter of the Bible we read "blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14)

 

[BABerean2]

HERE is the everlasting Gospel for the days of Great Tribulation:

Rev, 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

That's it: the gospel for the tribulation. NO repentance, NO death, burial or resurrection, NO baptism.

Here is Paul's gospel, by which WE will be judged:

1 Cor. 15
15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
From other scriptures believing He was only a prophet or a good man would not save them. One must believe he died, was buried and rose from the dead.

BOTH of these are "the everlasting Gospel, but they are as different as night and day. OF COURSE Abraham would not be judged by Paul's gospel - no anyone else who lived and died before Jesus came.

Here is Peter's prescription for Jews:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again even a difference with Peter's gospel. Paul said God never sent him to baptize, telling us that for Gentiles, baptism probably is not so important as it was for the Jews. Yet under Paul's ministry some Gentiles were baptized.

Jesus' Gospel was simple: the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. It was called "the gospel of the Kingdom." It was specifically for JEWS and the house of Israel.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Paul's Gospel and Peter's Gospel was the Gospel of Christ...


Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Rom_15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

1Co_9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

1Co_9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co_9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

2Co_10:14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:

Gal_1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Php_1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

1Th_3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

I am sometimes amazed at what it takes to make John Darby's doctrine work...
.

 

[iamlamad]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Paul's Gospel and Peter's Gospel was the Gospel of Christ...


Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Rom_15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

1Co_9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

1Co_9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co_9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

2Co_10:14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:

Gal_1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Php_1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

1Th_3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

I am sometimes amazed at what it takes to make John Darby's doctrine work...
.

And I am amazed at someone who thinks we are commanded not to eat of the tree of Good and evil, and Adam through Malachi must follow Paul's gospel.

You are blind to the concept of time. Yet, you pounce on those that see.

Peter's gospel was that JESUS was the Jew's long awaited Messiah.
Paul's gospel was that Jesus died for our sins, then rose so we could rise.

You are going to be left behind when Jesus comes FOR His saints, for you can't even believe He is coming first. While you are waiting for the man of sin to be revealed, Jesus will come and you will be left behind wondering. Darby will be one of those dead in Christ rising, while you are left behind.

 

[BABerean2]

And I am amazed at someone who thinks we are commanded not to eat of the tree of Good and evil, and Adam through Malachi must follow Paul's gospel.

You are blind to the concept of time. Yet, you pounce on those that see.

Peter's gospel was that JESUS was the Jew's long awaited Messiah.
Paul's gospel was that Jesus died for our sins, then rose so we could rise.

You are going to be left behind when Jesus comes FOR His saints, for you can't even believe He is coming first. While you are waiting for the man of sin to be revealed, Jesus will come and you will be left behind wondering. Darby will be one of those dead in Christ rising, while you are left behind.

You say I am blind for agreeing with Paul in Galatians 1:6-9 that there is only One Gospel, which is the Gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was the Messiah in which all the world would be blessed, first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite Christians. There are not two separate peoples of God, or kingdoms of God.

Then you invoke the words of the Rapture cultist, who claims that anyone who does not agree with John Darby's doctrine will be "Left Behind" at the rapture of the Church.

If you are losing the debate, then make a personal attack on the opposition.
That is a sad commentary on the state of the Church...
.

 

[iamlamad]

You say I am blind for agreeing with Paul in Galatians 1:6-9 that there is only One Gospel, which is the Gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was the Messiah in which all the world would be blessed, first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite Christians. There are not two separate peoples of God, or kingdoms of God.

Then you invoke the words of the Rapture cultist, who claims that anyone who does not agree with John Darby's doctrine will be "Left Behind" at the rapture of the Church.

If you are losing the debate, then make a personal attack on the opposition.
That is a sad commentary on the state of the Church...
.

What can I say? You see Paul's gospel but you are blind to the gospel as shown in Rev. 14.
It seems you have NO concept of time. I am quite sure you think Abraham had to follow Paul's gospel, and David, and Elijah. Why have you not commented on this aspect of Paul's gospel? Was Paul's gospel for Adam and Eve?

Please show us how you can find Paul's gospel in Rev. 14.

 

[n2thelight]

1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come 15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep 15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump 15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first 15:52 - dead shall be raised
Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.
1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia) 24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds 24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump 24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together 24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons 24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief 24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction 24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch 24:42 - watch
As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.
Matthew 24 1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming Jesus coming At His coming
Trumpet Trumpet Last trump
Angels gather saints Dead saints raised Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints Living saints caught up Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds Coming in the clouds
Not mentioned

 

[Bible2+]

iamlamad said in post 6462:

But do you imagine that Abraham will be judged by Paul's gospel?

Yes, of course, for that is the only gospel there is (Galatians 1:6-9). And even Paul says that it was preached to Abraham (Galatians 3:8). Also, all obedient believers who died during Old Testament times are now part of the church in heaven (Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24). For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6). And 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18c-19, and Ephesians 4:9 show that there was a post-resurrection descent of Jesus into Hades to preach the fulfillment of the gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to the souls of the dead in Hades, after which preaching, Jesus ascended into heaven with all the souls of those in Hades who had died in faith (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

*******

iamlamad said in post 6465:

Paul said God never sent him to baptize . . .

In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul wasn't contradicting his own teaching of the necessity of baptism for ultimate salvation (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27). He simply meant that God didn't want him to spend his apostolic time personally baptizing everyone who got saved through his preaching, when others in the church could do that for him. For any believer can baptize new believers. Also, Paul didn't want to personally baptize a lot of people, so as to avoid as much as possible any false charge that he baptized in his own name (1 Corinthians 1:14-15). The Bible doesn't say how many people Paul baptized, but it does show that he made sure that people got baptized, whether by himself or someone else, right away after their coming into faith due to his preaching (Acts 16:15,33, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:5; 1 Corinthians 1:14-16).

 

[Bible2+]

BABerean2 said in post 6469:

The Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite Christians. There are not two separate peoples of God, or kingdoms of God.

That's right.

For just as all believers are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all believers are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish believers remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile believers have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), so they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This doesn't mean that a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile believer becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile believers, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

Similarly, all those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, are spiritually Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29). And Abraham's seed is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b), but also the Gentiles in the church, are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7,8,24), as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28), and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

 

[BABerean2]

Please show us how you can find Paul's gospel in Rev. 14.[/QUOTE]

It is there in plain sight, within the text.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.


You cannot see what is plainly written in the text, because John Darby's doctrine found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible will not allow you to see it.

I cannot understand how you can ignore Paul's warning below, in an effort to hold on to Darby's doctrine.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:


Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

.........................................................................................

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[iamlamad]

It is there in plain sight, within the text.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.


You cannot see what is plainly written in the text, because John Darby's doctrine found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible will not allow you to see it.

I cannot understand how you can ignore Paul's warning below, in an effort to hold on to Darby's doctrine.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:


Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

.........................................................................................

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Why is it you refuse to answer a simple question: was Paul's gospel for Adam and Eve and all that lived and died before the flood? A simply yes or no would suffice.

So we have the Lamb. Is it not written that there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven whereby people are saved? OF COURSE there is the Lamb. Peter's gospel (Jesus is the Messiah so Repent and be baptized) included the Lamb.

But you don't read very closely: John EXPLAINS what this gospel is:

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Why did God NOT send the angels to say they must believe Jesus Christ rose from the Dead? That is the KEY POINT in Paul's gospel. Yet, it is MISSING here.

 

[Postvieww]

 

[Postvieww]

1 Corin 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1 Corin 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,


17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.


18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


God’s word without commentary. Just believe it.

 

[BABerean2]

Why is it you refuse to answer a simple question: was Paul's gospel for Adam and Eve and all that lived and died before the flood? A simply yes or no would suffice.

I have avoided the question up to this point because you are attempting to produce a diversion in order to avoid Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9.

The answer is simple.

We find the promise of the Messiah in Genesis 3:15, when God told Satan of the one who would destroy him.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

It was their faith in the coming Messiah that saved them.



Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. (That city is New Jerusalem, which is now above.)

It is the same city we will inherit.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



Now, why don't you explain to us how you can get your doctrine to agree with Galatians 1:6-9...
.

 

[iamlamad]

Just one more broken record. I was hoping you would have something new. Sorry, but the gospel of the church today is NOT "just made up." If anything is "made up" it is his theories, not differentiating between Israel and the Gentile church of today.
"it just doesn't fit." HA! It fits perfectly because the pretrib rapture is the truth. Since when does truth not fit?
The truth is, he cannot fit it because of preconceived glasses, thinking Matthew 24 gathering is about the church.

I have no problem going to church on a Sunday. Some, like him, esteem one day above another. Others esteem every day the same. With Paul either one was OK. When someone says a believer is lost because they worship on a Sunday - I know they are coming from a CULT prospective.

I will give this much: he is a good speaker.

 

[iamlamad]

1 Corin 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There is TIME between these two verses, as in over a thousand years!
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
This must be after the war of Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years.

1 Corin 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thes. 4
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

We are changed as we are caught up or the moment before.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
This mystery has nothing to do with the previous verses. It is the mystery of WHY Satan loses the kingdoms and Jesus gains them,


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
This trumpet has NOTHING to do with Paul's "last trump," neither is there any gathering here. This theory is MYTH. Why not just believe what is written: that the 7th trumpet is about changing the rulership of the kingdoms of the world. It has nothing to do with Paul's rapture. It has everything to do with Satan losing and Jesus gaining. The mystery is all about Satan being cast down from his high places.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Question, what exactly does this mean: who had Jesus power before this moment in time? What on earth changes when Jesus suddenly begins to "reign?"


18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

It is easy to see that all of the above does not happen at the same time, from other chapters in John's book. these events are written here as PROPHECY or foretelling of future events. For example, so of the destruction will surely be at His coming when the armies of the nations of the world come to the valley of Armageddon and are killed.


19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I don't believe there was an earthquake in the throne room! Nor great hail. It was a VISION. It was a prophetic vision showing that these events would come to earth SOON.


God’s word without commentary. Just believe it.

Nice try, but same old broken record. Just because someone can put one verse after another on paper or screen does not necessarily follow that they are meant to BE together.