Evolution Promotes Brutality

[Black Dog]

There are many true Christians who have accepted that life on Earth evolved over millions of years.

In particular, lifeforms have been around for over 200 million years which have continuously lived by biting and devouring other lifeforms.

Has God allowed brutality to be the means for many lifeforms to exist for such a long period of time?

I don't think so. How about you?

I don't believe in God so there is that. And if God exists, and bible is His book, then His book is one of the most violent tomes I've ever read, and God is one of most violent beings I've ever heard about. Destroying all life on earth except one family, condoning slavery, wiping out all first born in a country after manipulating the pharoah to justify wiping out all first born. It goes on and on. If we're going by the bible, you certainly can't say God is against violence.

 

[expos4ever]

If we're going by the bible, you certainly can't say God is against violence.

I certainly see what you mean and I agree that parts of the Bible are chock full of violence that is represented as being endorsed by God. But, as you are no doubt aware, there are many different stances on how to understand the Bible. Jesus, certainly, was as about as pacifistic as one can get (at least if we take the New Testament at face value). I am open to the proposition that the violence we see ascribed to God in the Bible (in the Old Testament) was really a way for the Israelites to justify their own violent ways and that Jesus, by contrast, represents the "true" image of God.

Picking and choosing?

Of course, but we all "pick and choose" what to believe for a whole range of often entirely legitimate reasons.

 

[Black Dog]

I certainly see what you mean and I agree that parts of the Bible are chock full of violence that is represented as being endorsed by God. But, as you are no doubt aware, there are many different stances on how to understand the Bible.

Absolutely. There appear to be literally tens of thousands of denominations of Christians. People in each have a close personal relationship with Jesus, and he tells everyone something different, something that agrees with their personal beliefs.

Jesus, certainly, was as about as pacifistic as one can get (at least if we take the New Testament at face value).

That's what I thought. But when I quoted pacifist scripture at Christians who were advocating violence, I was told I wasn't interpreting the scripture correctly, and/or was shown scripture where Jesus wasn't being a pacifist.

I am open to the proposition that the violence we see ascribed to God in the Bible (in the Old Testament) was really a way for the Israelites to justify their own violent ways and that Jesus, by contrast, represents the "true" image of God.

Picking and choosing?

Of course, but we all "pick and choose" what to believe for a whole range of often entirely legitimate reasons.

I agree.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus, certainly, was as about as pacifistic as one can get (at least if we take the New Testament at face value).

Someone hasn't read Revelation, has he?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Granted, it doesn't look like the scriptural Adam and Eve,

Adam and Eve were real people but they are also a shadow and a type. Jesus teached using parables. He was clearly the greatest teacher that ever lived. We learn in this story how God does what He does. In this case the lesson is common ancestor and science can confirm it it true that we all come from a common ancestor. Abram was told: "you will be called Abraham, for you will be the father of many nations". That is exactly what happened. Abraham became the father or common ancestor of many nations.

 

[joshua 1 9]

he tells everyone something different.

There never seems to be an end to the strawman arguements around here. What you do not believe in is a product of your own mind. In fact I am right in there with you. I do not believe in your strawmen either. So we are in agreement there.

 

[expos4ever]

Someone hasn't read Revelation, has he?

Someone doesn't understand metaphor, does he?

 

[Black Dog]

There never seems to be an end to the strawman arguements around here. What you do not believe in is a product of your own mind. In fact I am right in there with you. I do not believe in your strawmen either. So we are in agreement there.

Did you not read the post I was replying to? I was replying directly to that post, so it is not a strawman. Good try though.

For example there are Christians on this board who believe Jesus is against same sex marriage, and other Christians who believe Jesus is fine with same sex marriage. Who is correct?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Both man and animals ate from the garden God had created.
The Garden had not yet received organic certification at that time.

There were no weeds in the garden so there was no need for weed killer at that time.

 

[Black Dog]

There were no weeds in the garden so there was no need for weed killer at that time.

So, is it possible that ISIS is "weedkiller"? If not, how do you know? If ISIS is, and you are against them, does that mean you are against God?

 

[joshua 1 9]

For example there are Christians on this board who believe Jesus is against same sex marriage, and other Christians who believe Jesus is fine with sex marriage. Who is correct?

According to Francis MacNutt that is a watershed issue. What they call a litmus test in science. So you can determine who does and who does NOT represent God. I am not saying this shows who is and who is NOT saved. Salvation is not by works. So those who do not serve God will not receive a reward. I have put up multiple posts about marriage and so far no one even understands what marriage is.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Did Jesus speak directly to you? Other people claim he spoke directly to them, so why should I believe you and not them?

There is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and I receive understanding from them. You also can have the eyes of your understanding enlightened, but you do not seem to be willing to receive what God has for you. That is your choice. That is what this is all about is everyone making a decision and making a choice if they are with God or against Him. So everyone will be without excuse.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" There is nothing you can do to justify yourself. Only God is able to do a work in us to cause us to be justified before Him.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So, is it possible that ISIS is "weedkiller"? If not, how do you know? If ISIS is, and you are against them, does that mean you are against God?

This is complex. My ancient history left Germany before the Holocaust. He lived to be 100. Like others he knew to get out and avoid trouble.

 

[Black Dog]

According to Francis MacNutt that is a watershed issue. What they call a litmus test in science. So you can determine who does and who does NOT represent God. I am not saying this shows who is and who is NOT saved. Salvation is not by works. So those who do not serve God will not receive a reward. I have put up multiple posts about marriage and so far no one even understands what marriage is.

What reason do I have to believe Francis MacNutt knows anything special? Did God communicate with him? Does he have evidence of such?

 

[Black Dog]

This is complex. My ancient history left Germany before the Holocaust. He lived to be 100. Like others he knew to get out and avoid trouble.

Cool, and (most sincerely) good on him.

But the theological question remains. Clearly when you said "weedkiller" you meant God needed to kill weeds. So how do you know that ISIS isn't "weedkiller", doing God's bidding?

 

[Black Dog]

There is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and I receive understanding from them. You also can have the eyes of your understanding enlightened, but you do not seem to be willing to receive what God has for you. That is your choice. That is what this is all about is everyone making a decision and making a choice if they are with God or against Him. So everyone will be without excuse.

You haven't answered the question: Why does God give everyone different information?

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" There is nothing you can do to justify yourself. Only God is able to do a work in us to cause us to be justified before Him.

That's nice, but I'm not afraid of this God: Judges 1: 19Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots.

Does that sound like an all powerful God speaking?

 

[joshua 1 9]

You haven't answered the question: Why does God give everyone different information?

He does not. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I attended a church that did a serious of sermons on the mind of Christ. AT the time we talk about around 180 qualities that make up the mind of Christ. As Christians we are to be born again, that means we are to put on the mind of Christ. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus," Phil2:5

Does that sound like an all powerful God speaking?

God preserves a remnant for Himself. The Canaanites were descended from an ancestor called Canaan, the son of Ham and grandson of Noah.

 

[Black Dog]

He does not. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I attended a church that did a serious of sermons on the mind of Christ. AT the time we talk about around 180 qualities that make up the mind of Christ. As Christians we are to be born again, that means we are to put on the mind of Christ. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus," Phil2:5

But this is demonstrably wrong as virtually all Christians believe different things. There are tens of thousands of denominations, and even within denominations people disagree. But they all have a close personal relationship with God.

So who do I trust to speak the true word of Jesus? If you claim you're the one, could you please provide some sort of evidence?

 

[AV1611VET]

Someone doesn't understand metaphor, does he?

Do you seriously think the events of Revelation that Jesus does is going to be done by a pacifist?

 

[expos4ever]

Do you seriously think the events of Revelation that Jesus does is going to be done by a pacifist?

I think it is really quite clear that John of Patmos is repeating the well-established use of imagery in a specifically metaphorical mode. Many modern Christians are unaware that the colorful, often fantastic, kind of imagery we see in the book of Revelation was commonly deployed in Jewish writing as a means to speak about socio-political change.

In short, I think the scholars - as contrasted with the person in the pew - are generally in agreement that these images were never intended to be taken literally.

In Daniel 7, we have the son of man character - a role Jesus clearly sees Himself as fulfilling - doing battle with the beasts. This is metaphorical language, it is not to be taken literally. How do we know this? Probably the biggest reason is that we know that Jesus declares directly to Pilate that he (Pilate) will see Jesus fulfill Daniel 7.

And Jesus, of course, wins that victory not through bloody conquest - something that otherwise contradicts much of His teaching - but rather by going to the Cross.