Logical Problems with Calvinism

[FreeGrace2]

Tulipbee,

Dude, I don't even want to talk to you anymore, because you are just trolling.

It's a lot easier to troll than to actually engage the views of others.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Teasers? My explanation of what free will means was clear enough. What did you not understand about my proposition?

Freedom of choice is just that. Nothing more. Do you understand this proposition?"

Suit yourself. It was just a friendly suggestion, but if you like having no discussion, I'd advise sticking with what you've already posted.

What a totally weird response to my comment. If you disagree with my description of free will, are you able to discuss it or not?

Your comments are about as disengaging as another famous poster here.

 

[tulipbee]

Yeah you are definitely trolling.

Exposing your lies isn't trolling. Why are you running?

 

[True Science]

Exposing your lies isn't trolling. Why are you running?

Everything you've said is nothing but gibberish and gobbledygook.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Everything you've said is nothing but gibberish and gobbledygook.

Let's just ignore it.

 

[Thursday]

No one can be saved without God

No kidding.

 

[Thursday]

Many people (even most) feel the same as you do about it.

But what it really comes down to is whether or not the idea that God does indeed predestine everything that happens in His creation is the only conclusion to the matter considering what God has revealed to us.

Any systematic theology worth it's salt comes to the same conclusion.

Absolutely false on many levels.

Scripture contradicts your assertion:

1 Tim 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling.

 

[Thursday]

Man's free will is more powerful than God's?

That is not the question. The question is could God choose to grant men free will? Of course he could, and the entire bible teaches us that God wants us to seek his will and do what is right. We are also told that we will be judged for our actions, not God's actions.

Do you think God is incapable of creating us with free will?

 

[Thursday]

God preordained all things. You don't have to like it, but you don't get a say in it and better to just accept it.

So according to you, all evil acts are God's doing.

 

[nobdysfool]

Absolutely false on many levels.

Scripture contradicts your assertion:

1 Tim 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling.

Not when the surrounding context for these verses is taken into account. the bible is not just a collection of stand-alone verses, like the way you're using them here.

 

[Thursday]

Not when the surrounding context for these verses is taken into account. the bible is not just a collection of stand-alone verses, like the way you're using them here.

Feel free to explain why these verses don't mean what they say.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So according to you, all evil acts are God's doing.

That would be seriously a
Problem as God is perfect

 

[GillDouglas]

The whole Calvinistic predestination is based on God foreknowing in and using time. I think holding God to time is crazy since as humans we cannot even fully understand eternity
I've read your view. Disagree most stringently.
Period. Constraining God to time is to put human limitations on Him. That's an error.

Just to be clear, you have a misunderstanding of my view. How is it that man even has the ability of time? God created that which we base our system of time, the solar system, orbits, rotation, etc. God predestined all things in eternity, and didn't base His plan on anything He foreknew. I know I cannot convince you otherwise as well, but these are the views I hold on God's sovereignty.

 

[GillDouglas]

I believe that through the Holy Spirit that God is drawing each one of His own to Himself.

I believe that through faith we initiate this relationship and our salvation, although after we come to God in faith He does all things.

I believe that God uses His willing children in love to do His will.

I believe that He uses us in that way. Not so much with non-believers because they do not invite Him in and God gives us free-will.

I know you will not agree, of course, but that does not change what I think and I make up my own mind.

I almost agree with everything here, minus the bold, but that is ok. I don't know of many people that can agree on everything, especially regarding Theology. I find that God drawing us to Him is true, and then you contradict it with we initiate the relationship. I would say that God can use anyone to accomplish what He purposes. I may need you to clarify 'willing children' before I can comment there.

 

[Thursday]

God predestined all things in eternity, and didn't base His plan on anything He foreknew. .

Who told you this?

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Just to be clear, you have a misunderstanding of my view. How is it that man even has the ability of time? God created that which we base our system of time, the solar system, orbits, rotation, etc. God predestined all things in eternity, and didn't base His plan on anything He foreknew. I know I cannot convince you otherwise as well, but these are the views I hold on God's sovereignty.

How does that we live with the constraint of time, proof that God is constrained by time?

Obviously if eternity never ends, God is not constrained by time

We
Are as we have a lifespan and will one day die and leave our existence on earth.

Time is very apparent on earth. Plants,
Animals most life has a time to be born and to die.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Who told you this?

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

These are followers of Christ who have been saved by His blood a sacrifice for sin on the cross

This is talking about the Gentiles. That God predestined Jesus to the sacrifice for sin for BOTH Jew and Gentile. All.

 

[ToBeLoved]

These are followers of Christ who have been saved by His blood a sacrifice for sin on the cross

This is talking about the Gentiles. That God predestined Jesus to the sacrifice for sin for BOTH Jew and Gentile. All.

Jesus was always part of the plan if Adam & Eve screwed up. The Old Covenant was only for the Israelites.

 

[GillDouglas]

How does that we live with the constraint of time, proof that God is constrained by time?

Obviously if eternity never ends, God is not constrained by time

We
Are as we have a lifespan and will one day die and leave our existence on earth.

Time is very apparent on earth. Plants,
Animals most life has a time to be born and to die.

Again you misunderstand me. GOD IS NOT RESTRAINED BY TIME.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again you misunderstand me. GOD IS NOT RESTRAINED BY TIME.

Then why are you insisting that foreknew happened in the past? That the ones who come to Him were chosen by Him? That He did something before they came to Christ in faith?

That
Is constraining an Omnipotent and Omnipresent God to time.