Why does God answer some prayers but ignore others?

[Haasrecht]

. . .
My understanding of those who promote prayer is "God will say yes" or "God will say no" or "God will say maybe later". It is the most dishonest method for characterising randomness.

Where is the dishonesty? Plenty of people genuinely believe in prayer. How is it dishonest of me to do so?

 

[SteveB28]

Where is the dishonesty? Plenty of people genuinely believe in prayer. How is it dishonest of me to do so?

It is dishonest in the sense that, no matter the outcome of the prayer, some theists will always frame it in such a way as to claim a 'response' from their god.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Where is the dishonesty? Plenty of people genuinely believe in prayer. How is it dishonest of me to do so?

I think he is referring to the various rationalisations Christians give to argue that prayer still works even when it doesn't.

 

[Haasrecht]

It is dishonest in the sense that, no matter the outcome of the prayer, some theists will always frame it in such a way as to claim a 'response' from their god.

Dishonesty requires that the person knows what they are saying is untrue. Otherwise it is just a mistake, error, etc.. It is very likely they believe what they are saying. Or are you claiming that those of us that believe in prayer only say we do?

 

[SteveB28]

Dishonesty requires that the person knows what they are saying is untrue. Otherwise it is just a mistake, error, etc.. It is very likely they believe what they are saying. Or are you claiming that those of us that believe in prayer only say we do?

Some probably do. There is absolutely no evidence to support the contention that prayer has any observable effect, other than making those who practise it feel better.

There are probably quite a number of people who 'go through the motions' of prayer without any sincere belief that it achieves anything.

 

[Haasrecht]

Some probably do. There is absolutely no evidence to support the contention that prayer has any observable effect, other than making those who practise it feel better.

There are probably quite a number of people who 'go through the motions' of prayer without any sincere belief that it achieves anything.

It would be nice if you had qualified your original statement as much as you did this one. What you said above is nothing more than 'I think some people don't really believe in prayer even though they say they do.'

That is very different than this:

SteveB28 said: ↑
. . .
My understanding of those who promote prayer is "God will say yes" or "God will say no" or "God will say maybe later". It is the most dishonest method for characterising randomness.

Which is essentially saying that anyone who believes in prayer is being dishonest and are aware it is random.

 

[SteveB28]

It would be nice if you had qualified your original statement as much as you did this one. What you said above is nothing more than 'I think some people don't really believe in prayer even though they say they do.'

That is very different than this:



Which is essentially saying that anyone who believes in prayer is being dishonest and are aware it is random.

Dishonesty can be expressed in many forms - knowingly, through delusion, wilful ignorance, wishful thinking, and so on.

I don't need to qualify anything.

And when people "don't really believe in prayer even though they say they do"......guess what?

They are being dishonest!

 

[Haasrecht]

I don't need to qualify anything.

And when people "don't really believe in prayer even though they say they do"......guess what?

They are being dishonest!

Well, you did start to qualify things and continued in this most recent post. And because of it, I have no problem with that above statement. Cheers.

 

[com7fy8]

What evidence do you have to show that prayer is anything more than talking to the air?

Before I offer you evidence, I wish to clarify that prayer is submission to God, and being sensitive to Him, so I do and say what He pleases . . . what He has me asking and seeking. So, this is what I mean by prayer . . . not only asking God for things, but personally submitting to Him so He and I are in personal sharing and communication in His love, then see what He has me praying for, in His personal guiding of what I say in prayer

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

So, I understand from this scripture, that God in us works in our willing and doing to have us praying the way He desires, asking what He has us ask In His Spirit we do the praying He has us doing. And in Romans 8:26 our Apostle Paul says >

"the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us, with groanings which cannot be uttered."

So, the Holy Spirit is praying for us . . . not only with talk and words, but "with groanings which cannot be uttered."

So, prayer, I consider from this, includes deeper-than-words groaning of love and affection and appreciation for God, and groaning of appreciation and affection for one another, and groaning of compassion for any and all people > in love's prayer.

Now, can I give you evidence that I really am in such blessed personal communication with God during prayer?

I can offer my testimony. In a court, evidence includes the testimony of witnesses. But can you really prove each witness is telling the truth, if all you have is say-so? no

So, in case you accept personal testimony as being evidence, then I offer my personal experience that I do experience God in very kind and sweet and humble and gentle and soul-resting and soul-soothing love sharing with me and guiding me in prayer. And this matches with what I find in the Bible >

Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" > Matthew 11:29 > "and you will find rest for your souls." And I do experience that in His love and personal guiding He is gentle and humble with me in feelings and emotions of His love, and He does give me rest for my soul, in spite of myself and people and things in my life. He is better and sweeter and kinder and does me more good than any human pleasure stuff. This is my testimony, in case you consider personal testimony to be evidence. Plus, also in the Bible, we have >

"praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God" > in Jude 20-21 > this is directed, in the Bible, showing me that the writer knows that prayer is not only talking into the air, but prayer is a process of keeping ourselves in God's own love . . . so prayer is relating personally with God and personally submitting to how He keeps us and guides us in His love

So, my personal experience matches with certain things I have discovered in the Bible It appears that certain writers, thousands of years ago, have experienced what I am discovering with God, about prayer.

God appreciates the conversation, not the topics.

There is relating, in His love > Romans 5:5 is clear how God does share His very own love with us, right "in our hearts". So, if God so greater and superior is so personally sharing, surely God is not conceited.

My understanding of those who promote prayer is "God will say yes" or "God will say no" or "God will say maybe later". It is the most dishonest method for characterising randomness.

Well, as you can see from what I have offered, above, and from Bible quotes > that is not all there is to prayer. But yes we do ask for things, and we do get no for an answer. But I keep discovering how things that do come are included in loving and caring for people.

So, God is in love evaluating each prayer, and answering with love benefits; but because God is all-loving, how He answers fits together with how He is loving and doing good to others, also; with His answers can come more and more family loving and sharing and caring with others. Therefore, I have needed much correction (Hebrews 12:4-11, James 5:16), first, so I can be ready for things I have asked for.

 

[Shempster]

I am a bit late to this party so scuse me if I butt in, but on the surface it seems like prayers are normally requests to God that He remove a problem in ones life. But the bible clearly says that trials are sent to us to test our faith. So Why would one pray that God remove the test from us? That makes no sense. The obvious response will be, NO, pass the test then the trial goes away.
So if we cut out all of our requests that trials be removed what would we have left for Him to actually answer?

 

[SkyWriting]

I am a bit late to this party so scuse me if I butt in, but on the surface it seems like prayers are normally requests to God that He remove a problem in ones life. But the bible clearly says that trials are sent to us to test our faith. So Why would one pray that God remove the test from us? That makes no sense. The obvious response will be, NO, pass the test then the trial goes away. So if we cut out all of our requests that trials be removed what would we have left for Him to actually answer?

He answers all prayers long before one makes any request.
All that left if for you to answer to your faith in Him.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is dishonest in the sense that, no matter the outcome of the prayer, some theists will always frame it in such a way as to claim a 'response' from their god.

And how often would all atheists frame the outcome the other way?
Let's be honest in our definition of honesty.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think he is referring to the various rationalisations Christians give to argue that prayer still works even when it doesn't.

Prayer works for the individual who allows God to provide the prayer.
If it worked in any other way, you could rob banks or win the lottery.

 

[SkyWriting]

Suppose me and my friend both prays that our son gets into college. There is only one spot left. If God grants my prayer, God cannot grant his.
Will God grant someone's prayer who is Christian over someone who is not?
Will God grant it based on the merit of how good the person is?
Or will God ignore both prayers?

If both persons ask for God to be with them, the one who is most
sincere in the request might be considered the "winner" but really
God does the impossible and they both win equally.

 

[SteveB28]

Before I offer you evidence, I wish to clarify that prayer is submission to God, and being sensitive to Him, so I do and say what He pleases . . . what He has me asking and seeking. So, this is what I mean by prayer . . . not only asking God for things, but personally submitting to Him so He and I are in personal sharing and communication in His love, then see what He has me praying for, in His personal guiding of what I say in prayer

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

So, I understand from this scripture, that God in us works in our willing and doing to have us praying the way He desires, asking what He has us ask In His Spirit we do the praying He has us doing. And in Romans 8:26 our Apostle Paul says >

"the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us, with groanings which cannot be uttered."

So, the Holy Spirit is praying for us . . . not only with talk and words, but "with groanings which cannot be uttered."

So, prayer, I consider from this, includes deeper-than-words groaning of love and affection and appreciation for God, and groaning of appreciation and affection for one another, and groaning of compassion for any and all people > in love's prayer.

Now, can I give you evidence that I really am in such blessed personal communication with God during prayer?

I can offer my testimony. In a court, evidence includes the testimony of witnesses. But can you really prove each witness is telling the truth, if all you have is say-so? no

So, in case you accept personal testimony as being evidence, then I offer my personal experience that I do experience God in very kind and sweet and humble and gentle and soul-resting and soul-soothing love sharing with me and guiding me in prayer. And this matches with what I find in the Bible >

Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" > Matthew 11:29 > "and you will find rest for your souls." And I do experience that in His love and personal guiding He is gentle and humble with me in feelings and emotions of His love, and He does give me rest for my soul, in spite of myself and people and things in my life. He is better and sweeter and kinder and does me more good than any human pleasure stuff. This is my testimony, in case you consider personal testimony to be evidence. Plus, also in the Bible, we have >

"praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God" > in Jude 20-21 > this is directed, in the Bible, showing me that the writer knows that prayer is not only talking into the air, but prayer is a process of keeping ourselves in God's own love . . . so prayer is relating personally with God and personally submitting to how He keeps us and guides us in His love

So, my personal experience matches with certain things I have discovered in the Bible It appears that certain writers, thousands of years ago, have experienced what I am discovering with God, about prayer.



There is relating, in His love > Romans 5:5 is clear how God does share His very own love with us, right "in our hearts". So, if God so greater and superior is so personally sharing, surely God is not conceited.

Well, as you can see from what I have offered, above, and from Bible quotes > that is not all there is to prayer. But yes we do ask for things, and we do get no for an answer. But I keep discovering how things that do come are included in loving and caring for people.

So, God is in love evaluating each prayer, and answering with love benefits; but because God is all-loving, how He answers fits together with how He is loving and doing good to others, also; with His answers can come more and more family loving and sharing and caring with others. Therefore, I have needed much correction (Hebrews 12:4-11, James 5:16), first, so I can be ready for things I have asked for.

So, when we cut away all the preaching and repetition, we find that the answer is "no".

There is no evidence that prayer involves anything more than people wishfully speaking to the air.

Personal anecdotes are not evidence, without something tangible to corroborate them. Unsupported claims are not evidence and can be dismissed as quickly as they are proposed.

 

[SteveB28]

And how often would all atheists frame the outcome the other way?
Let's be honest in our definition of honesty.

This atheist says - "YOU are making the claim, so it is up to YOU to show evidence for your claim!"

No evidence has been presented to show that any form of prayer 'works'. That is not "framing the outcome" - that's a simple fact!

 

[Goatee]

So, when we cut away all the preaching and repetition, we find that the answer is "no".

There is no evidence that prayer involves anything more than people wishfully speaking to the air.

Personal anecdotes are not evidence, without something tangible to corroborate them. Unsupported claims are not evidence and can be dismissed as quickly as there are proposed.

I am sorry buddy but i cannot for the life of me see any reason why an atheist would want to use a 'Christian' forum as you are always going to disagree with a Christians beliefs!

There is no evidence that what you say is right. There is plenty of evidence for prayers being answered in the history of Christianity!

Just type it into google for a start! Opps, sorry, you would not 'believe' them anyway! lol

 

[SteveB28]

I am sorry buddy but i cannot for the life of me see any reason why an atheist would want to use a 'Christian' forum as you are always going to disagree with a Christians beliefs!

There is no evidence that what you say is right. There is plenty of evidence for prayers being answered in the history of Christianity!

Then present your evidence! Be aware, however, that many examinations have been made of the effect of intercessory prayer. Those findings have shown that, at best, the prayers have a neutral influence.

 

[Goatee]

Then present your evidence! Be aware, however, that many examinations have been made of the effect of intercessory prayer. Those findings have shown that, at best, the prayers have a neutral influence.

Millions of Christian believe in prayers. You have to have 'faith' to do that. If you have no faith then you will obviously find that hard. As i said, type the subject into google and see some results.

 

[SteveB28]

Millions of Christian believe in prayers. You have to have 'faith' to do that. If you have no faith then you will obviously find that hard. As i said, type the subject into google and see some results.

Oh, I have no doubt that millions of Christians think that prayer is achieving something - but that says nothing about the truth of those beliefs.

Now, regarding the results one can find on the Internet - was this an example of a "result"?

Largest Study of Third-Party Prayer Suggests Such Prayer Not Effective In Reducing Complications Following Heart Surgery

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html