Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[n2thelight]

I think it is good that you love the Bible. Yes, the Word of God is Jesus Christ, who is God and is the Son of Mary, who conceived Him with the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn't write anything. He handed on His Word orally to the Apostles and disciples (Luke 10:16), who then handed it on orally to others. 2 Timothy 2:2. Paul said that we should hold fast to the traditions, whether given orally or by letter 2 Thessalonians 2:15. What do you think of that verse?

Okay,it's like,no printing press in Pauls day right,so he did'nt have a letter to give to everyone he spoke with,but what he said was that which is in his letters,ie scripture...

The traditions are the Word.....Christ stands apart,without Mary,Mary can't stand apart without Christ...In my (opinion)I think Mary would feel ashamed of the way the CC venerates her

 

[patricius79]

Okay,it's like,no printing press in Pauls day right,so he did'nt have a letter to give to everyone he spoke with,

That's true. But if God had wanted, He could have given everyone a Bible and the ability to read it.

Instead he founded the Church to teach the truth, so that whoever listens to her listens to Him (Luke 10:16, Matthew 16:19)

but what he said was that which is in his letters,ie scripture...

I don't think the Bible says that. The communities had letters written by Paul. Paul says to hold fast to both what he taught in these letters and what he handed on orally. We must do the same.

The traditions are the Word.....

Yes, the written and oral Tradition is the Word of God.

Christ stands apart,without Mary,

I don't think the Bible says that. I think the Bible says that the Lord is with Mary. Luke 1:28

Mary can't stand apart without Christ...

I agree that Mary is a creature of God whose role depends entirely on Jesus Christ, the One Mediator. That is Catholic doctrine.

In my (opinion)I think Mary would feel ashamed of the way the CC venerates her

I think that Mary is glad about the way the Church venerates her because it allows her to bring members of the Church closer to her Son. Mary deserves far more veneration than Catholics give her.

 

[patricius79]

Because I don't want to. I prefer to follow Scripture.
Blessing Mary all day long is mockery.
You are mocking our Holy God by continuing to push this Mary BS on evryone.
Don't you realize there are babes in Christ coming here for guidance? The deserve and want sound biblical advice and teaching. Stop feeding them empty traditions that edify no one.

Knock of the BS.

I think we should be respectful of the Mother of God and her Divine Son, and of each other (who are members of Christ's Body), as we discuss these matters.

In regard to following Scripture, the Bible says that some things are, so to speak, written orally:

2 Jn 12: Though I have many things to write to you, I do not want to do so with paper and ink; but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, so that your joy may be made full.

 

[Aldebaran]

The Bible says "whoever listens to you listens to me" and "hold fast to the traditions, whether given orally or by letter". How do you believe these words of God are living and active today?

I believe they are living and active in the Church founded by Jesus Christ, which teaches us the truth about the Mother of God.

So who is "You"? Is it referring to ANY member of the church? If so, then you'll discover wildly varying views. How would anyone know who is correct unless there is a written record? Otherwise, a person would encounter dozens of different views and opinions and have no way to know which one is the correct one.

 

[Aldebaran]

Maybe so to some extent. But I think it's pretty similar to reject the oral Word as fairy tales, just as atheists reject the Bible--which is part of Catholic Tradition-- as fairy tales.

I don't reject the oral traditions as fairy tales. I reject the ones that directly contradict the written word. They have been added, and then accepted and passed down. But it doesn't mean they are correct--especially when the written word says something entirely different. An oral claim must be backed up by scripture, or it doesn't have any real backing.

 

[Albion]

How would anyone know who is correct unless there is a written record? Otherwise, a person would encounter dozens of different views and opinions and have no way to know which one is the correct one.

Very true. That's Tradition for you.

 

[Aldebaran]

You're right. It's WORSE when a fellow believer is the one disparaging the authority of God on earth.

If I'm disparaging anything, it's the "authority" man has taken upon himself and put himself in the place of God and His Word. IOW, placing traditions created by man and saying they are the word of God.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think that Mary is glad about the way the Church venerates her because it allows her to bring members of the Church closer to her Son. Mary deserves far more veneration than Catholics give her.

I don't think the Bible says that.

 

[patricius79]

So who is "You"? Is it referring to ANY member of the church? If so, then you'll discover wildly varying views. How would anyone know who is correct unless there is a written record? Otherwise, a person would encounter dozens of different views and opinions and have no way to know which one is the correct one.

When the Bible says "whoever listens to you, listens to me" I think it is referring especially to the teaching authority of the leaders of the Catholic Church which Christ founded. In a secondary sense, it is referring to anyone who is teaching what the Church officially teaches. And yes, we do need a written record--both the Bible of the Church as well as extra-Biblical writings, such as the Catechism--to be sure that we are orally teaching the truth about Our Lady and all doctrinal matters.

 

[Aldebaran]

When the Bible says "whoever listens to you, listens to me" I think it is referring especially to the teaching authority of the leaders of the Catholic Church which Christ founded.

The church Christ founded is the one consisting of those who have accepted His gift of eternal life through His sacrifice.

In a secondary sense, it is referring to anyone who is teaching what the Church officially teaches. And yes, we do need a written record--both the Bible of the Church as well as extra-Biblical writings, such as the Catechism--to be sure that we are orally teaching the truth about Our Lady and all doctrinal matters.

It's funny that you specifically focus on "Our Lady" rather than the truth about Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for us. It indicates the priority. It also shows that the title of your thread has nothing to do with "blessing" Mary. It has everything to do with putting Mary first in your life, focusing on Mary in our worship, and giving Mary all the credit.

 

[patricius79]

The church Christ founded is the one consisting of those who have accepted His gift of eternal life through His sacrifice.

I think the Church of the Bible is a visible organization that contains both good and bad, as the Bible tells us. The historical Church Christ founded is the Catholic Church.

It's funny that you specifically focus on "Our Lady" rather than the truth about Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for us.

This is the Mariology area of the forums and one never detracts from God by honoring the Mother of God.

It indicates the priority.

I think it indicates reverence for God the Son, whom we would not approach directly as we are sinners, but only through His Immaculate Mother.

It also shows that the title of your thread has nothing to do with "blessing" Mary. It has everything to do with putting Mary first in your life, focusing on Mary in our worship, and giving Mary all the credit.

I think that's an opinion, and one which I don't think is accurate at all, because the Church's understanding of the Blessed Mother is that she is not our God, but is the Mother of our God.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think the Church of the Bible is a visible organization that contains both good and bad, as the Bible tells us. The historical Church Christ founded is the Catholic Church.

I've never seen anything about the Catholic Church mentioned in scripture.

This is the Mariology area of the forums and one never detracts from God by honoring the Mother of God.

I said your focus is on Mary rather than what Christ did for us. Putting Mary before Christ is certainly not honoring Christ.

I think it indicates reverence for God the Son, whom we would not approach directly as we are sinners, but only through His Immaculate Mother.

Not supported by scripture. When Christ died on the cross, the barrier between us and God the Father was torn in two as Christ formed the bridge between us and the Father. Mary didn't do that.

I think that's an opinion, and one which I don't think is accurate at all, because the Church's understanding of the Blessed Mother is that she is not our God, but is the Mother of our God.

You previously said she was the new "Eve", and Christ the new "Adam". Was the original Eve the mother of Adam? From what I read, she was the wife of Adam. But you can't say Mary is the wife of God either, because that is what the church will be. Right now, we're called The Bride of Christ. The marriage takes place later.

 

[patricius79]

I've never seen anything about the Catholic Church mentioned in scripture.

The term "Catholic" isn't used in Scripture--nor is "The New Testament" or even explicit reference to Trinity--but the Catholic Church is the historic, visible Church founded by Jesus Christ, and it was commonly called "the Catholic Church" by the 100s. The Catholic Church defined the doctrine of the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union, and the N.T. Canon.

I said your focus is on Mary rather than what Christ did for us.

We focus best on contemplating what Christ did for us through His Mother the New Eve (our Mother), who conceived Him who is our God, and raised Him, and was there when He died.

Putting Mary before Christ is certainly not honoring Christ.

I agree. That is why we go to the Mother of God only the better to find Her Son, our God.

Not supported by scripture.

I think it is. The Bible tells us that we should hold fast to the traditions, whether given orally or by letter. 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Jn 12. The Word teaches that Jesus (the New Adam) came to us through Mary (the New Eve) who conceived him by a union with the Holy Spirit.

When Christ died on the cross, the barrier between us and God the Father was torn in two as Christ formed the bridge between us and the Father.

Yes, Jesus Christ is the One Mediator between us and the Father.

Mary didn't do that.

Mary is, by grace, our Mediatrix with Christ. She, as the New Eve, assisted--by the grace of Christ, in dependence on Him-- in Christ's reconciliation of us to the Father.

You previously said she was the new "Eve", and Christ the new "Adam". Was the original Eve the mother of Adam?

No. And the first Adam wasn't God like the second Adam. Typology doesn't mean that the fulfillment of the type must be identical to the type.

From what I read, she was the wife of Adam. But you can't say Mary is the wife of God either,

Mary is the Spouse of God the Holy Spirit, because she conceived Jesus Christ (Luke 1:31) by a spiritual union (Luke 1:35)with Him.

because that is what the church will be.

Yes, the Church is the Bride of Christ.

Right now, we're called The Bride of Christ. The marriage takes place later.

Yes.

 

[patricius79]

Very true. That's Tradition for you.

I think there are many divergent interpretations of Scripture held by those who profess idea of Sola Scriptura, which appears to conflict with Scripture. I think that the crucial issue is determining which is the One, true Church--the Body of Christ--and then striving to accept whatever she teaches about any matter, including the Mother of God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think there are many divergent interpretations of Scripture held by those who profess idea of Sola Scriptura, which appears to conflict with Scripture. I think that the crucial issue is determining which is the One, true Church--the Body of Christ--and then striving to accept whatever she teaches about any matter, including the Mother of God.

I wonder what you will do when you discover that you were dead wrong in placing your faith in a religious organization rather in the living God who has revealed Himself through His Word, the Bible.

 

[patricius79]

I wonder what you will do when you discover that you were dead wrong in placing your faith in a religious organization rather in the living God who has revealed Himself through His Word, the Bible.

I think that is a false dilemma, because the Bible shows a visible, organized Church that held fast to sacred traditions, whether given orally or by letter. The Church is Christ's Body, the fulness of the one who fills all things in every way. Ephesians 1:22-23.

This Church teaches the very reasonable and faithful truth that it shows God the Son honor to honor the woman who conceived Him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think that is a false dilemma, because the Bible shows a visible, organized Church that held fast to sacred traditions, whether given orally or by letter. The Church is Christ's Body, the fulness of the one who fills all things in every way. Ephesians 1:22-23.

This Church teaches the very reasonable and faithful truth that it shows God the Son honor to honor the woman who conceived Him.

I assume, then, that you believe the Bible teaches that the Church is a religious bureaucracy headquartered in Rome, Italy.

 

[patricius79]

I assume, then, that you believe the Bible teaches that the Church is a religious bureaucracy...

No--a visible, organized religion built on Simon Rock and begun, in some sense, when Our Lady conceived Jesus Christ in her womb.

 

[n2thelight]

@ patricius79

Tradition is not scripture.....

You keep saying that oral tradition is on par with scripture and it's not

Puts me in the mind of if I told a story to some one and they in turn told some one else,well by the time it gets to the 20th person the story is not the same as I first told it...

Like I said how do I check your traditions?Is it because the Church(cc)said so...How many evil Popes have you all had did you trust all of them?And what were the people suppose to do being ruled over by an evil Pope,something under God that important,would never happen

I mean heck,we have people now that can't even follow the Word,without a lot of differences of what said scripture meant..And then you'll come along and add traditions to it....(Oral)

 

[Grafted In]

Hey, patricius79, could I get a few 2 Thessalonians 2:15 ? I've had a rough day.