Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[iamlamad]

It's the truth of who are the Israel of God, which is exactly the same as the Church [Ekkelasia] of God, is where you rapture believers fall into error.
Thinking that true, righteous Israel is the arrogant, apostate, atheistic, homophobes, etc, who currently occupy a small part of the holy Land, is actually laughable.
And if you think they will miraculously change, then you haven't read much Bible prophecy. Ezekiel 21:4, Jeremiah 13:19, Zephaniah 1:4-6, Luke 19:27, Matthew 21:41-43

Just WHO do you imagine is God saving in the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war?

 

[n2thelight]

Just WHO do you imagine is God saving in the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war?

God's not saving nobody just to save them...The Jew's(Judah)will not be saved just because.....

Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respector of persons:"

You are either with Him now or you are not,period!!!!!

 

[keras]

Or do you also dispute the fact that Revelation 12:5 is speaking of Christ?

Yes, the man child is Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12 is a dual prophecy where, as we know, Jesus was born into the House of Judah and Satan tried to deceive Him and also the church, as we see in all of this age.
When Satan is thrown down from heaven at the mid point of the last seven years before the glorious Return of Jesus, he is allowed to wage war on God' people, Revelation 13:7, but the half of God's people who kept the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, will go to live in a place of safety, on earth; far away from Israel for 1260 days.
Then, Jesus will gather them and all of the other survivors who have refused the 'mark of the beast' to Himself, to Jerusalem. This gathering is what Paul described in 1 Thess 4:15-17.

 

[keras]

Just WHO do you imagine is God saving in the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war?

What has that to do with events of the last seven years?
It is the Israelites [All God's true, righteous believers, NOT Israelis] brought out from the nations, living undefended in all of the holy Land, who Gog attacks and the Lord destroys in order to display His power. Ezekiel 38:8-12 & 23

 

[n2thelight]

B2
Actually, in Revelation 12:5 the "man child" isn't Jesus, for Revelation 12:5 isn't about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from 4 different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
............................................................................................................................................................................

The Man Child is Christ

Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."
The "man child" that was brought forth in the little town of Bethlehem when Jesus the Christ child was born. There are only two events that sit upon this throne, and the only one to do this was a child. Get it? That child is Jesus Christ.
This verse covers two advents [comings]; the first is Christ's birth as a child, and His second coming will be at the seventh trumpet. Then He will come to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Jesus Christ will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

 

[keras]

B2
Actually, in Revelation 12:5 the "man child" isn't Jesus, for Revelation 12:5 isn't about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from 4 different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
............................................................................................................................................................................

The Man Child is Christ

Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."
The "man child" that was brought forth in the little town of Bethlehem when Jesus the Christ child was born. There are only two events that sit upon this throne, and the only one to do this was a child. Get it? That child is Jesus Christ.
This verse covers two advents [comings]; the first is Christ's birth as a child, and His second coming will be at the seventh trumpet. Then He will come to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Jesus Christ will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Yes, Bible2, despite his erudite and lengthy dissertations, isn't always correct. He is obviously wrong in saying the man child of Rev 12 isn't Jesus.

 

[Bible2+]

Jaxxi said in post 6372:

Because of what Jesus told us and because it makes sense. If your kids are out playing in a field and you know a tornado is coming to the park they are playing at what would you do? Your kids are unaware it is coming but you know EXACTLY when it is coming. What do you do? You go get them!!

Note that the tribulation's purpose with regard to the righteous church in all nations having to suffer through it (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6) could be the same as the purpose of righteous Job having to go through his suffering at the hands of Satan (Job chapters 1-2), and the purpose of, for example, the righteous, literal, 1st century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) having to suffer and die at the hands of Satan during a 1st century AD persecution:

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake . . .

-

Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). Just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against obedient Christians in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), he first suffered the loss of his wealth and servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But he remained patient through all of his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3) and the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought that his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against him, for he was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians won't be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job in order to prove that Job didn't love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the future tribulation. They will need to continue to love God even when he allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to make war against Biblical Christians and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all their wealth and family and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust him that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43).

Christians mustn't love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians mustn't love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians mustn't love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

1 Peter 4:12 ¶Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

 

[Bible2+]

keras said in post 6376:

God doesn't plan to remove us from the earth . . .

That's right (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20).

keras said in post 6376:

. . . many prophesies tell how all the Lord's righteous people will be protected during His Day of wrath.

Regarding "His Day of wrath", do you mean the whole tribulation? Also, are you thinking of 1 Thessalonians 5:9? If so, note that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 refers only to that wrath which is opposed to salvation, which is indeed God's wrath (John 3:36). But even obedient saved people can suffer the wrath of Satan, which doesn't affect their salvation (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 2:10). For even if they are killed by Satan, this is no loss for them, but gain, for it brings their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). Also, 1 Thessalonians 5:9a applies to anyone who obtains salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9b), and no matter whether they live or die (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

Also, note that nothing requires that the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that will be his wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the tribulation could be only Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

For example, the tribulation's first 5 seals (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's wrath or judgment, for after the first 4 seals, the martyrs of the 5th seal ask God when he is going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more martyrs, which the 5th seal foretells will happen sometime after the 5th seal (Revelation 6:11), won't be God's wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus' unsealing of the seals (Revelation 6), the tribulation's 1st stage, doesn't mean that the events unsealed will be God's wrath, but that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes, Bible2, despite his erudite and lengthy dissertations, isn't always correct. He is obviously wrong in saying the man child of Rev 12 isn't Jesus.

The interpretation that the "man child" is the Church is found in the early writings of John Darby and others who were attempting to make it fit Margaret Macdonald's rapture of the Church.

It can be found in part four of the book "Notes on the Book of the Revelation" by John Nelson Darby, 1839.
.

 

[Bro.T]

My point is simple, to divide a week into half and end up with 1260 days or 42 months or 3.5 years as the SECOND half requires an ENTIRE APPLE to divide, or in this case the ENTIRE WEEK. This entire week is still future to us today. There is no scripture anywhere showing Jesus ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years. But we have five different mentions of the LAST 3.5 years given in Revelation.

My only point was that the ENTIRE WEEK is still ahead of us.

in the midst of the week

To divide the week and end up with a half week left we must have the ENTIRE WEEK. In your theory you wish to divide only a half which would end up with quarters. The ENTIRE WEEK is still ahead of us.

You getting confuse. The great tribulation which is 3 1/2 yrs is different from Jesus return, which he have 3 1/2 yrs to finish. These different times are not to be added together, like that. They are two different events. I can list the things Jesus have to do, upon his return and none of them are during the great tribulation.

There is no scripture anywhere showing Jesus ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years.

Thats not true, you just don't understand what you are reading. I quoted the scripture to prove that. In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Instead of asking for more understanding you just conveniently looked over what I post before...good doctrine I provided, went straight over your head like a bullet. How is it that people are satisfied knowing nothing especially when they salvation is at stake. "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). All you had to do is ask me...it there more scriptures or verses to prove that Jesus have 3 1/2 yrs left to teach...anything of that nature. But this world loves to commit suicide.

 

[Riberra]

How is it that people are satisfied knowing nothing especially when they salvation is at stake. "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

The pre-trib rapturists have changed the true meaning of the word Salvation. For them Salvation mean "being raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation". That is the only thing that they want to hear ...that is the only thing who can recomfort them, period !Now that the lie is solidly implented in their mind /like an Hindu Mantra/or a neuronnal programmation -which give them a good feeling - don't even try to explain to them that they have been fooled...they will repeat their mantra endlessly...just to get their feeling good sensation.

I am done with this topic...i give up !

Note: English is not my native language it is possible that the text contain syntax and grammar imperfection!

 

[BABerean2]

The pre-trib rapturists have changed the true meaning of the word Salvation. For them Salvation mean "being raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation". That is the only thing that they want to hear ...that is the only thing who can recomfort them, period !Now that the lie is solidly implented in their mind /like an Hindu Mantra/or a neuronnal programmation -which give them a good feeling - don't even try to explain to them that they have been fooled...they will repeat their mantra endlessly...just to get their feeling good sensation.

I am done with this topic...i give up !

Note: English is not my native language it is possible that the text contain syntax and grammar imperfection!

Brother Riberra,

In 6390 plus posts we have seen how John Nelson Darby's doctrine does not line up with scripture in multiple ways.

Some of us have been accused of lying, hating the descendants of Jacob, working for Satan, etc.

We have arrived back at the starting point of modern Dispensational Theology.

Benjamin Newton and John Darby worked together for a number of years within the Plymouth Brethren.
After John Darby adopted the "Secret Rapture" doctrine of the Irvingites and divided scripture into that for the Church and that for the Jews, Newton refused to accept Darby's new doctrine.

Darby then made a personal attack on Newton.
It is one of the most revealing aspects of Darby's doctrine.
The same thing continues to occur during our time.

I have talked to a number of Pastors who have been through the same thing.

It happened to a Baptist pastor in our part of North Carolina.

We will never be able to change the minds of some people.

However, you have made a difference by speaking the truth-in-love, which has been seen by many visiting this forum.

Thank you for patience.
....................................................
Pastor Joel Botelho is one of those rare pastors who was willing to abandon what he had been taught in seminary, when he could not get it to align with scripture. When I spoke to him on the phone, he told me how some of his fellow pastors labeled him as a "heretic" for letting go of John Darby's doctrine.
It is a sad commentary on the modern Church.

Click on the YouTube icon at the bottom right part of the black box to watch the video on YouTube.

.

 

[keras]

Thanks Riberra and Baberean, the fact is those who believe false teachings have ben locked into them, Isaiah 29:9-12 and only when they find themselves 'left behind', will they at last, understand. Isaiah 29:24
But I pray that our efforts have had some effect, especially on those 'lurkers' who are truly seeking the truth.
Here is another good article by James Lloyd:
Although most Christians are virtually illiterate in terms of accurately understanding New Testament doctrine, as the truth is buried within the historic avalanche of theological development, one of the shortest parables of JESUS CHRIST wonderfully summarizes the entire subject in the most concise language imaginable: Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. Luke 13:20, 21

Webster's Dictionary uses the phrase "weigh out," or measure, in its definition of the root word dispense; and common usage tells us the Dispensational system is related to how the LORD dispenses, or measures out salvation. What is truly amazing is how the Dispensational system (known to most as the Rapture theology) specifically designates three stages (or so called “Dispensations”) of salvation within this unbiblical system.

Sadly, most of those ensnared in the belief system which began in a small European Cult are completely ignorant of systemic theologies which preceded Rapturism, as most of them have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe there is no other viable view of prophecy. To this end, most "Christians" caught in the Rapture Cult refuse to even consider or examine the compelling historical record which conclusively documents the origin, development, and rise of the Spiritual deception that is the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Obviously, Jesus will hold such "believers" accountable for refusing to respond to His own warning concerning just how the Kingdom of God would be leavened (see Matthew 22:11-13 for their fate).
Dispensational teachers tell us the first “Dispensation” was Israel, as seen in the Old Testament and the law. The second alleged "Dispensation" was what is usually called the "Church" age, and the third (and final) of the three is when the "Church" has supposedly been Raptured, and the tribulation then is said to center on Jewish salvation, in the final “Dispensation” of 7 years. Thus, there are three stages of Spiritual "development" in this pattern.

What usually confuses rapture believers confronted with the truth is their Dialectical reasoning process, rather than an absolute commitment to the truth of the Gospel. In other words, it doesn't seem possible the Kingdom of God on earth could be diminished, so they evaluate the concept, and reject it based on their conditioning. However, it is clear that leaven is indeed a figure of a progressive deception which, if not aggressively refuted, will eventually grow until it "leaveneth the whole lump." The New Testament flatly tells us that leaven is a picture of false doctrine which we are to scrupulously avoid: They understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:12 When Paul repeated Christ's warning, he noted how the "lump" of Israel was sanctified as holy before their "branches were broken off" Romans 11:15-17

Further, the most angry denunciations Jesus ever made were against the religious practices of the Pharisees and the Sadducees -- which He repeatedly identified as the doctrine propagated by the Jewish leaders. Thus, we see the parable says there are three stages of sinful doctrine in the Antichrist dominated end of the world. The evil doctrine is associated with the “lump” of Israel, and the doctrine put forth by Jews, and it will ultimately compromise the entire loaf, or lump. Since the common denominator in all three "Dispensations" is the blasphemous lie that true Israelites are chosen by the LORD on a racial basis, rather than Spiritual rebirth in Christ as plainly articulated throughout the New Testament, we conclude the Jewish primacy articulated by the Pharisees, and still seen in the Rapture Cult , is the leaven which corrupts the Kingdom of God.

However, we are of "good cheer" for Christ has overcome the world and its Antichrist religion, as God has promised He will always preserve a Remnant -- and that Remnant is a Spiritual body -- not of the established "Church," as seen in the leavened loaf, but of the only Remnant ever identified in Scripture, the Lord’s true and righteous believers, those who stand firm in their faith during the testing times to come: The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid. Zephaniah 3:13 Ref: -- James Lloyd

 

[iamlamad]

God's not saving nobody just to save them...The Jew's(Judah)will not be saved just because.....

Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respector of persons:"

You are either with Him now or you are not,period!!!!!

The fact is, GOD SAVES ISRAEL.

I know that does not fit your theories, but it will be true anyway.

 

[iamlamad]

Yes, the man child is Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12 is a dual prophecy where, as we know, Jesus was born into the House of Judah and Satan tried to deceive Him and also the church, as we see in all of this age.
When Satan is thrown down from heaven at the mid point of the last seven years before the glorious Return of Jesus, he is allowed to wage war on God' people, Revelation 13:7, but the half of God's people who kept the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, will go to live in a place of safety, on earth; far away from Israel for 1260 days.
Then, Jesus will gather them and all of the other survivors who have refused the 'mark of the beast' to Himself, to Jerusalem. This gathering is what Paul described in 1 Thess 4:15-17.

No, the gathering you are writing of will be the gathering of Matthew 24. It is a different gathering for a different purpose. Oh, and it will be for different people.

 

[iamlamad]

What has that to do with events of the last seven years?
It is the Israelites [All God's true, righteous believers, NOT Israelis] brought out from the nations, living undefended in all of the holy Land, who Gog attacks and the Lord destroys in order to display His power. Ezekiel 38:8-12 & 23

Israel to become the Land of the Free and home of the Brave? Your theory is myth.

Go ahead and go to Israel. It will be devastated...and probably you along with it. The Bride will go to heaven.

 

[iamlamad]

B2
Actually, in Revelation 12:5 the "man child" isn't Jesus, for Revelation 12:5 isn't about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from 4 different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
............................................................................................................................................................................

The Man Child is Christ

Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."
The "man child" that was brought forth in the little town of Bethlehem when Jesus the Christ child was born. There are only two events that sit upon this throne, and the only one to do this was a child. Get it? That child is Jesus Christ.
This verse covers two advents [comings]; the first is Christ's birth as a child, and His second coming will be at the seventh trumpet. Then He will come to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Jesus Christ will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

B2 seems to be lost in some kind of phantom zone where all they can do is copy and paste. Never mind it is nonsense. How could ANYONE miss that the man child is Jesus? Herod tried to kill Him as a baby.

 

[iamlamad]

The interpretation that the "man child" is the Church is found in the early writings of John Darby and others who were attempting to make it fit Margaret Macdonald's rapture of the Church.

It can be found in part four of the book "Notes on the Book of the Revelation" by John Nelson Darby, 1839.
.

Whole denominations sprung up with that false theory. I knew some who called themselves "Manifest Sons."

 

[iamlamad]

You getting confuse. The great tribulation which is 3 1/2 yrs is different from Jesus return, which he have 3 1/2 yrs to finish. These different times are not to be added together, like that. They are two different events. I can list the things Jesus have to do, upon his return and none of them are during the great tribulation.

OK, let's for a second suppose you are right: so find a scripture to PROVE Jesus will have 3 1/2 years after the 70th week has finished. From all I read, I am sure He will have 1000 years.

Thats not true, you just don't understand what you are reading. I quoted the scripture to prove that. In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

How amazing, I am always the one who don't understand. So humor me: show us all again where there is any scripture anywhere to prove Jesus' ministry on earth was 3 1/2 years. I don't know of such a scripture. I really don't think you do either. Perhaps I did not "understand" because you pulled something out of context or somthing. However, I stand ready to be proven wrong here.

Instead of asking for more understanding you just conveniently looked over what I post before...good doctrine I provided, went straight over your head like a bullet. How is it that people are satisfied knowing nothing especially when they salvation is at stake. "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). All you had to do is ask me...it there more scriptures or verses to prove that Jesus have 3 1/2 yrs left to teach...anything of that nature. But this world loves to commit suicide.

So I am ASKING. If there is such scriptures, I want to know about them. But please don't be "pulling my leg" here.

 

[iamlamad]

The pre-trib rapturists have changed the true meaning of the word Salvation. For them Salvation mean "being raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation". That is the only thing that they want to hear ...that is the only thing who can recomfort them, period !Now that the lie is solidly implented in their mind /like an Hindu Mantra/or a neuronnal programmation -which give them a good feeling - don't even try to explain to them that they have been fooled...they will repeat their mantra endlessly...just to get their feeling good sensation.

I am done with this topic...i give up !

Note: English is not my native language it is possible that the text contain syntax and grammar imperfection!

That's not really true: I am pretrib and I know that "salvation" backed up by the Greek word, Soterion (including Soteria and Sozo) includes many meanings such as healing, health, deliverance, etc. And of course it means the born again experience too. Paul used this word in 1 Thes. 5 to included the rapture and deliverance from the sudden destruction.

I never read a scripture where we are to live by feelings or walk by feelings. I don't walk by feelings, I walk by faith.
All the fooling is on the other side of this argument. The Bride is going to heaven. If everyone else wishes or chooses to stay behind, that is up to them. As for me and my house, we will ESCAPE what is coming.