Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Postvieww]

2 Thessalonians revisited:


2 Thess. 2:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:


5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:


Those that claim the worthiness of Luke 21:36 should claim this worthiness as well.


6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;


7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


When will the troubled rest, according to Paul?

When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, is the answer to that question. That rest is tied to the coming described in verses 8 & 9 as well.


8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


What pretibber teaches the events of verses 8 &9 happen at a pretrib coming of Christ?


Challenge: Read verses 7,8 &9 together and make a case that the context here is not described as the second coming at the end of the tribulation


10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


It is at this coming 1:7 that He will be glorified in His saints.




2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


By what method of rightly dividing the word can we separate the coming above in verse 1 from the coming in chapter 1?


Why would Paul start out in chapter 1 describing the return of Christ in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and punishing them with everlasting destruction, then go straight into talking about a previous coming before the tribulation, with no language to show it is a different coming?


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


How do we rightly divide and separate verse 2 from verse 1 and then from the revealing in 1:7?


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


How do we ignore the clear meaning of the word apostasia (falling away) in verse 3 when the only other time the word is used in the New Testament is in Acts 21:21 below. What does the context of Acts 21:21 tell us the word means?


Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to “forsake” Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.


The only departure here is a departure from the teachings of Moses.

The falling away is not the departure of the church from the planet, it is a departure from the faith! The entire context of these 2 chapters is the second coming of Christ in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and punishing them with everlasting destruction and our gathering . One coming, not 2. The departure from the faith cannot be code for departure of the church. The context of these 2 chapters, and word definitions simply will not allow it.


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The passage doesn’t say AC actually says he is the God of the bible. Look at Daniel 11:36-38 AC magnifies himself above every god (little g) and shall speak marvellous things (blasphemy) against the God of gods. “Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers” “nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all”. AC blasphemes against the God of the bible and shews himself to a god greater than the one true God of the bible.


5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


If someone insist on arguing the “he” in verse 7 is the Holy Spirit or the church, then I’m going to argue you are mid-trib not pre, that is if you hold to a 7 year tribulation. It makes no sense that Paul veiled a coming in verse 3 and 7 while openly declaring the return of our Lord in 1:7,9,10 and 2:1,2,&8.

There is no scripture to suggest the Holy Spirit or the church is the "he" of this passage only the imagination of men.


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Compare “shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” with 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God”


Is this not also a description of the second coming after the tribulation? Paul is not jumping around talking about 2 different comings; with one so deeply hidden and buried in the text we need a pretrib scholar to dig it out for us.


9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Please, let’s stay with what the word of God says not the private interpretation of men.

 

[Postvieww]

10 Reasons for the PreTribulation Rapture

1. The unity of Daniel’s seventieth week is maintained by pretribulationists. By contrast, postribulationism and midtribulationists destroy the unity of Daniel’s seventieth week and confuse Israel’s program with that of the church.

2. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any passage dealing with the second coming of Christ after the Tribulation.

3. The church is not appointed to wrath (Rom. 5:9: 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9). The church therefore cannot enter “the great day of their wrath” (Rev. 6:17).

4. The church will not be overtaken by the day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1-9, which includes the Tribulation.

5. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.

6. The church of Philadelphia was promised deliverance from “the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth” (Rev. 3:10).

7. It is characteristic of divine dealing to deliver believers before a divine judgment is inflicted on the world as illustrated in the deliverance of Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (2 Peter 2:5-9).

8. At the time of the translation of the church, all believers go to the Father’s house in heaven (John 14:3) and do not immediately return to the earth after meeting Christ in the air as postribulationists teach.

9. Pretribulationism does not divide the body of Christ at the Rapture on a works principle. The teaching of a partial rapture is based on the false doctrine that the translation of the church is a reward for good works. It is rather a climactic aspect of salvation by grace.

10. The Scriptures clearly teach that all, not part, of the church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the church (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17).















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Psalm3704 said:


5. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.

 

[iamlamad]

All of these groups are the SOULS/SPIRITS of dead martyrs believers which are seen in Heaven .None of them were raptured at any time.They will all be part of the resurrection of the believers upon Jesus coming AFTER the Tribulation.

That is your theory: it is just a wrong theory. Find one word in chapter 7 that would hint that this group too large to number have died or been martyred.

Find one word that even hints that group under the altar are too large to number.

Answer the question:

WHICH would be the larger group: the martyrs or the NON-martyrs - those that live their life in Christ out without being martyred?

 

[iamlamad]

What these verses and many others as well, pertain to is the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath; the Sixth Seal, not the 3.5 years period of the Great Tribulation.
We know Satan will pursue and persecute some Christians during this period, but we see that those who kept their faith and refused to accede to the treaty with the leader of the OWG, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for those 1260 days. At which time Jesus will send His angels to gather them back to Jerusalem. At no time do any of them go to live in heaven.
Also in Zechariah 14:2, there another reference to these two groups: the half who go into exile are the 'woman' and the rest, who are 'overcome' by the AC, they did agree to the treaty, must remain and experience the GT.

There is only one group that will not fall under the law of the land from God Himself then: Saints will be OVERCOME: that group will be those in Judea that flee the moment they see the abomination. Those that return to their house to get a coat will not qualify.

There is NO LOOPHOLE for those living in the USA. That is big time MYTH that cannot be supported by scripture. All other saints on the place except those in Judea who flee will be under the law of being OVERCOME.

 

[Psalm3704]

Psalm3704 said:

5. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.

You're not PreTrib. Escape is only for PreTribbers. You need to study these verses instead.

Matthew 24:40 GNT
At that time two men will be working in a field: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind.

Matthew 24:41 GNT
Two women will be at a mill grinding meal: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind.

Luke 17:34 GNT
On that night, I tell you, there will be two people sleeping in the same bed: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind.

Luke 17:35 GNT
Two women will be grinding meal together: one will be taken away, the other will be left behind.”

Jeremiah 9:22 GNT
Dead bodies are scattered everywhere, like piles of manure on the fields, like grain cut and left behind by the reapers, grain that no one gathers. This is what theLord has told me to say.”

2 Samuel 16:21 GNT
Ahithophel answered, “Go and have intercourse with your father's concubines whom he left behind to take care of the palace. Then everyone in Israel will know that your father regards you as his enemy, and your followers will be greatly encouraged.”

Exodus 18:2 GNT
So he came to Moses, bringing with him Moses' wife Zipporah, who had been left behind,

Exodus 10:26 GNT
No, we will take our animals with us; not one will be left behind. We ourselves must select the animals with which to worship the Lord our God. And until we get there, we will not know what animals to sacrifice to

1 Samuel 30:9 NKJV
So David went, he and the six hundred men who werewith him, and came to the Brook Besor, where those stayed who were left behind.

Ezekiel 24:21 NKJV
‘Speak to the house of Israel, “Thus says the Lord God: ‘Behold, I will profane My sanctuary, your arrogant boast, the desire of your eyes, the delight of your soul; and your sons and daughters whom you left behind shall fall by the sword.









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[Psalm3704]

Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel Chapter 9

Dr. Nicolas Cage, PHD on Left Behind in High Definition.

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[iamlamad]

In Romans chapter 11 the Apostle Paul says the branches broken off may be grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ. The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Blood Covenant Church.

The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Covenant "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6.
The New Covenant was foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Hebrews 8:13 says the Old Sinai Covenant is now obsolete.

A future 70th week of Daniel when God saves the modern Jews outside of the New Covenant Grace of the Church, is the pretribulationists most serious error. It is an idea proven wrong by scripture and Paul warned against it in Galatians 1:6-9.

The Church is the only plan now in effect, until the Second Coming of Christ.
There is no separate program for Israel, outside of the Church.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel Chapter 9

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

Why do you keep on with MYTHS?


The olive tree was there before Jesus came: it was Israel. Salvation is of the Jews.

When Jesus came, those that believed stayed on the olive tree.

Those that did not believe were broken off, and then GENTILES that believed were grafted in as from a WILD tree.

If no Israel, then no Savior, no salvation, and NO Olive tree to be grafed into.

 

[Fusion77]

Riberra, if there is no trip to heaven, and 1 Thess 4:15-17 is the same as Matthew 24:29-31, than how did the elects get to heaven in Matthew 24:31?

Matthew 24:31 NKJV
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.












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The AC will sit in the temple of God and claim to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will deceive, he will be the Messiah to the Jews, the Mahadi, to the Muslims etc. etc. Though he will speak against God, he will use the prophecies of the Bible and other "so called holy" books to point to him as their Messiah. He will "pick and choose" prophecies, and claim he has fulfilled them. All the while speaking against the Truth, that Christ is the true Messiah, Christ.

He will use the prophecies of the bible and other books to deceive.

 

[Postvieww]

That is your theory: it is just a wrong theory. Find one word in chapter 7 that would hint that this group too large to number have died or been martyred.

Find one word that even hints that group under the altar are too large to number.

Answer the question:

WHICH would be the larger group: the martyrs or the NON-martyrs - those that live their life in Christ out without being martyred?

Since “the souls of them that were slain for the word of God” to whom “white robes were given unto every one of them” Rev 6:9-11 already have their white robes, and those that “came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” are already “arrayed in white robes” Rev 7:13-14. How can it be that the wife that “made herself ready” is “granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white” in chapter 19. How can they be a group that have been in heaven for 7 years ?


Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Is come did not come 7 years earlier.


8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


The groups in chapters 6 &7 already had their white robes. This sounds like a different group.


9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


The timing of this supper is absolutely near the second coming of Christ. Could it be there is a rapture/resurrection associated with the second coming of Christ?

I’m sure there is a perfectly logical explanation.

 

[BABerean2]

Why do you keep on with MYTHS?


The olive tree was there before Jesus came: it was Israel. Salvation is of the Jews.

When Jesus came, those that believed stayed on the olive tree.

Those that did not believe were broken off, and then GENTILES that believed were grafted in as from a WILD tree.

If no Israel, then no Savior, no salvation, and NO Olive tree to be grafed into.

In a strange twist of fate, I am going to agree with you.
Almost all of the first Christians were Israelites like the Apostle Paul. Romans 11:1

You have just revealed one of the fatal flaws with John Darby's two peoples of God doctrine.

The Gentiles were grafted into faithful Israel, which is the Israel of Promise found in Romans chapter 9.



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The truth you said above completely destroys Darby's doctrine.

There are two Israels, not one. There are those like the Baal worshippers and those who would not bow to Baal and remained faithful.



Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,


Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.


Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.


Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


There is Israel of the Promise, made up of all of those both Jew and Gentile who have accepted Christ and make up the Olive Tree New Blood Covenant, foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

There is Israel of the Flesh, who are the descendants of Jacob.

Salvation only comes to those in the first group.

I appreciate your honesty in the post above.
.

 

[Fusion77]

Zechariah 14:16 ¶And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Note that here, in the original Hebrew, the "LORD" is "YHWH".

And the Antichrist won't say that he is YHWH. Instead, he will utterly revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:6). For the Antichrist will be a Gnostic (1 John 4:3), and Gnostics revile YHWH. At the same time, the Antichrist will be a Luciferian, for he will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer/Satan, the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). Luciferians revile YHWH as being evil, just as YHWH rebukes Lucifer/Satan as being evil (Zechariah 3:2, Isaiah 14:12-15).

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But Christians need to be aware that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that he is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the 1st book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). But Satan might not be worshipped as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind. And he could claim that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove this by showing that it was the single entity of YHWH/Satan who moved David to number Israel. Of course, the truth is that 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together simply show that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same entity.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

*******



That's right.

For Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed, and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will rapture and marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

It is my position that the AC will attempt to be the messiah to many religions. The messiah to the Jews, the Mahadi to the Muslims etc. 2 Thessalonians 2:4. He will use the prophecies of the bible and other "so called holy books" to try and prove he's the messiah. He will do this by deception. Of course, picking and choosing and saying he has fulfilled them. Yes, he will come with a "new false covenant" picking and choosing prophecies from religious books trying to prove himself to be the messiah to many. All the while, not regarding Christ as the messiah, but rather a false messiah. He will do this through deception.

 

[John S]

It is my position that the AC will attempt to be the messiah to many religions. The messiah to the Jews, the Mahadi to the Muslims etc. 2 Thessalonians 2:4. He will use the prophecies of the bible and other "so called holy books" to try and prove he's the messiah. He will do this by deception. Of course, picking and choosing and saying he has fulfilled them. Yes, he will come with a "new false covenant" picking and choosing prophecies from religious books trying to prove himself to be the messiah to many. All the while, not regarding Christ as the messiah, but rather a false messiah. He will do this through deception.

First he will solve all of the world's problems and also bring peace to the entire planet. Then, when he is assassinated, halfway through the Tribulation, and then returns to life after being "dead" for 3 days, he will then "prove" to the world that he is God.

 

[Fusion77]

First he will solve all of the world's problems and also bring peace to the entire planet. Then, when he is assassinated, halfway through the Tribulation, and then returns to life after being "dead" for 3 days, he will then "prove" to the world that he is God.

Daniel 11:21 tells us he will come up in a time of peace/ tranquility. It will be the calm after the storm. Sometime after a big war. The world will be ready for "change" after this war. He will talk a good game and gain power through deception. Daniel 11:23

 

[John S]

Daniel 11:21 tells us he will come up in a time of peace/ tranquility. It will be the calm after the storm. Sometime after a big war. The world will be ready for "change" after this war. He will talk a good game and gain power through deception. Daniel 11:23

Revelation is about the rise of a dictator and the Day of the Lord (WWIII). In a strange twist, the antichrist (Satan) will bring about peace and God will bring war by putting it into the heads of a few leaders (Russia?, China?) to break those peace treaties.
The ONLY way that this war will end, will be the return of Jesus Christ, which will prevent the complete annihilation of the human race. Otherwise, "No flesh will be saved".
This war and His return will bring about a worldwide peace that will last 1000 years.

There is not going to be a major war before the AC arrives, even though at times it looks like there will be one.

 

[Fusion77]

Revelation is about the rise of a dictator and the Day of the Lord (WWIII). In a strange twist, the antichrist (Satan) will bring about peace and God will bring war by putting it into the heads of a few leaders (Russia?, China?) to break those peace treaties.
The ONLY way that this war will end, will be the return of Jesus Christ, which will prevent the complete annihilation of the human race. Otherwise, "No flesh will be saved".
This war and His return will bring about a worldwide peace that will last 1000 years.

There is not going to be a major war before the AC arrives, even though at times it looks like there will be one.

There's going to be a major war soon. Could be next month could be next year. Revelation 13:2 is talking about the dragon (satan) giving the AC and the one world government power, his power.

 

[John S]

There's going to be a major war soon. Could be next month could be next year. Revelation 13:2 is talking about the dragon (satan) giving the AC and the one world government power, his power.

There isn't going to be a major war and there isn't going to be a one world government.

 

[Riberra]

Riberra, if there is no trip to heaven, and 1 Thess 4:15-17 is the same as Matthew 24:29-31, than how did the elects get to heaven in Matthew 24:31?
Matthew 24:31 NKJV
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.

The -heaven- mentioned ,is the blue sky with the clouds and the wind right above your head that you can see everyday.

 

[Fusion77]

There isn't going to be a major war and there isn't going to be a one world government.

Haggai 2:20-23 describes a war. Not just a war, but a war that shakes both the heavens and the earth. That'll be here sooner than we realize. Could be next month, could be next year...I seriously doubt it will be 5 years.

 

[keras]

Haggai 2:20-23 describes a war. Not just a war, but a war that shakes both the heavens and the earth. That'll be here sooner than we realize. Could be next month, could be next year...I seriously doubt it will be 5 years.

There won't be any conventional war in the future. All the prophesied attackers are destroyed by the Lord. Ezekiel 7:14
1/ the next attack - Iran and her proxies against Israel, Micah 4:11-12, Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17
2/ The Gog/Magog attack onto new Israel, Ezekiel 38-39
3/ the attack on Jesus at His Return, Armageddon, Revelation 19:21
4/ the final attack at the end of the Millennium, Revelation 20:7-9

And there will be a One World Govt. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:8

 

[Fusion77]

There won't be any conventional war in the future. All the prophesied attackers are destroyed by the Lord. Ezekiel 7:14
1/ the next attack - Iran and her proxies against Israel, Micah 4:11-12, Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17
2/ The Gog/Magog attack onto new Israel, Ezekiel 38-39
3/ the attack on Jesus at His Return, Armageddon, Revelation 19:21
4/ the final attack at the end of the Millennium, Revelation 20:7-9

And there will be a One World Govt. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:8

Yes, there will be a one world government, no doubt there.

Haggai 2:20-23 describes a war. Haggai 2:22. "Everyone by the sword of another" indicates a war, a war that shakes both the heavens and the earth. The Lord has spoken this message 1 month and 10 days ago. you can read that like it was spoken by the Lord today, (well last month), because it was.