Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[iamlamad]

It's described in Haggai 2:20-23. That's not angelic. That's just the power of God unloosing demons to instigate havoc. But, it was God who released them. So, in essence it's The judgement of God. And why not? You've lived on earth for the last 20 years, as we continue reject God.

Then you have picked the WRONG WAR in Revelation. Perhaps you should pick the battle of Armageddon?

 

[Fusion77]

That would NOT be rearranging. The order he wrote it is the right order. We have no business rearranging it to make it fit our theories.

Where does it say it's in chronological order? The ancient and wise book of Lamad?

Then you have picked the WRONG WAR in Revelation. Perhaps you should pick the battle of Armageddon?

Haggai 2:20-23 is Not Armageddon

 

[Fusion77]

I disagree: how would then even KNOW to call it the Day of His wrath if they did not know the Old Testament? Of course they had to know. John WROTE IT. If you knew what the Old Testament had to say about the DAY, you would instantly recognize that the trumpets are JUDGEMENTS inside the Day of the Lord and very much a part of it.

I hear the unsaved today say the same. A big tornado and they attribute it to the wrath of God. They have no concept, nor did these foolish unrepentant sinners.

 

[iamlamad]

Where does it say it's in chronological order? The ancient and wise book of Lamad?

Haggai 2:20-23 is Not Armageddon

Exactly! The fact is IT IS WRITTEN in an order exactly as the Holy Spirit wanted it written. It is written as a REVEALING, not a hiding. We have no authority to rearrange what God has chosen for order.

Anyway, it makes PERFECT SENSE in the order it is written, giving NO REASON to attempt to rearrange. Next, everyone's idea of HOW it should be rearranged would be different for everyone! Best to just leave it alone and believe it as written.

 

[iamlamad]

I hear the unsaved today say the same. A big tornado and they attribute it to the wrath of God. They have no concept, nor did these foolish unrepentant sinners.

Yes, but these people recognized Isaiah 2 and Joel 2.

 

[iamlamad]

Where does it say it's in chronological order? The ancient and wise book of Lamad?

Haggai 2:20-23 is Not Armageddon

Then choose Psalm 83 is it? Or Ezekiel 38 & 39 (although I believe THEY are Armegeddon).

 

[Fusion77]

Then choose Psalm 83 is it? Or Ezekiel 38 & 39 (although I believe THEY are Armegeddon).

After the 6th trumpet the witnesses are given authority to witness like a signet denotes authority. Hello! Haggai 2:23 a signet. The witnesses start their ministry of witnessing after the war in Haggai 2:20-23. Just like they do, after the 6th trumpet, they're the same war!

You'd be wise to listen to the prophets!

 

[Fusion77]

Yes, but these people recognized Isaiah 2 and Joel 2.

Yeah, it's the wrath of God for them on a personal level. But, not THE wrath of God.

 

[Fusion77]

Yes, but these people recognized Isaiah 2 and Joel 2.

If you're going to take the word of a bunch of fools who had been deceived throughout their lives, which is obvious. That's your choice I guess. But, they had no concept what the wrath of God was. An erroneously attributed this event to the wrath of God.

 

[Fusion77]

Let's put it this way

You should know better. God's wrath covers the entire 70th week and beyond, which will run concurrently with Satan's wrath from the midpoint to the end.

lets put it this way, you'll see a big war and then, sometime after that, a temple will be built. Sometime between the war and the construction of the temple you'll see the truth. I just don't think you'll see it before then though.

 

[Postvieww]

 

[Postvieww]

 

[Riberra]

What if the new dispensation does not include a Rapture of the Church to Heaven before the Tribulation ?I believe that it is normal that nobody wish to be there during the Tribulation ....including me.But there is difference betwen a wish and what Revelation describe. There is no rapture of the Church to Heaven before the Tribulation mentioned in the whole Book of Revelation.

The new dispensation based on the lecture of the Book of Revelation seem to be that all Christians at some point during the Tribulation will need to make a choice betwen the AC/Beast or Jesus and lose their head.Do you believe that you are a Saint?....it seem that Revelation tells -you-and all of us what it will need to become one...

Sorry, but MILLIONS have ALREADY chosen Christ.

Based on the book of Revelation -the dispensation- will be for all Christians living during the Tribulation to give their live to prove their faith in Jesus ...not just words of faith.If you believe that you are a Saint just because you have accepted Jesus ,the Book of revelation tell us that something more will be needed to be a real Saint.

That will be the time of the great Apostasy in the Church that Paul said will happen sometime before the coming of Jesus.

You pre-trib rapturist have turned the great apostasy that will happen in the Church before the Coming of Jesus into a great escape of the Church to Heaven before the coming of Jesus.

 

[iamlamad]

Based on the book of Revelation -the dispensation- will be for all Christians living during the Tribulation to give their live to prove their faith in Jesus ...not just words of faith.

That will be the time of the great Apostasy in the Church that Paul said will happen sometime before the coming of Jesus.

You pre-trib rapturist have turned the great apostasy that will happen in the Church before the Coming of Jesus into a great escape of the Church to Heaven before the coming of Jesus.

There is no "great apostasy." It is really saying "great departure" of the church to heaven.

 

[iamlamad]

Let's put it this way
lets put it this way, you'll see a big war and then, sometime after that, a temple will be built. Sometime between the war and the construction of the temple you'll see the truth. I just don't think you'll see it before then though.

Look: it seems God has taught you things concerning Zechariah. I tend to agree with what He has taught you. I asked you to tell us HOW he taught you, but you chose not to answer that.

Well, God has taught me much about Revelation, much of it in WORDS where I heard His voice and His words. Just as you are sure of what God taught you, I am sure of what God taught me. Perhaps we should see how what God has taught you and what God has taught me agrees. Indeed, of both came from God they MUST agree. Agreed?

I BELIEVE a temple will be built, and I believe a war is coming, sooner than most people think. I am expecting it to start any day now.

 

[Riberra]

There is no "great apostasy." It is really saying "great departure" of the church to heaven.

All the Biblical Scholars say that this refers to a great falling away/departure from the faith for those in the Church that will happen before the Coming of Jesus.

 

[iamlamad]

If you're going to take the word of a bunch of fools who had been deceived throughout their lives, which is obvious. That's your choice I guess. But, they had no concept what the wrath of God was. An erroneously attributed this event to the wrath of God.

What you have to realize is that the 7 trumpets and 7 vials PROVE what they said was true. You many not see it yet, but you will, for it is truth.

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

HCSB
Look, the day of the Lord is coming—cruel, with rage and burning anger—to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the sinners on it.


You tell me, how can the trumpets and vials NOT be fulfilling this verse? Does 1/3 of the seas turning to blood sound like desolation? How about ALL the seas? How about earthquakes that move all mountains or earthquakes so great the mountains disappear? How about all the fresh water turning to blood? EVERY trumpet judgment and every vial is fulling this verse in Isaiah 13.

By the way, how long after a SIGN would God bring the reality?

 

[iamlamad]

All the Biblical Scholars say that this refers to a great falling away/departure from the faith for those in the Church that will happen before the Coming of Jesus.

"All Biblical Scholars" are wrong. And that is not true anyway. Many are coming to believe it is THE departure.

 

[iamlamad]

Yeah, it's the wrath of God for them on a personal level. But, not THE wrath of God.

You are IGNORING what happens next.

 

[Fusion77]

Look: it seems God has taught you things concerning Zechariah. I tend to agree with what He has taught you. I asked you to tell us HOW he taught you, but you chose not to answer that.

Well, God has taught me much about Revelation, much of it in WORDS where I heard His voice and His words. Just as you are sure of what God taught you, I am sure of what God taught me. Perhaps we should see how what God has taught you and what God has taught me agrees. Indeed, of both came from God they MUST agree. Agreed?

I BELIEVE a temple will be built, and I believe a war is coming, sooner than most people think. I am expecting it to start any day now.

This forum doesn't permit the

Look: it seems God has taught you things concerning Zechariah. I tend to agree with what He has taught you. I asked you to tell us HOW he taught you, but you chose not to answer that.

Well, God has taught me much about Revelation, much of it in WORDS where I heard His voice and His words. Just as you are sure of what God taught you, I am sure of what God taught me. Perhaps we should see how what God has taught you and what God has taught me agrees. Indeed, of both came from God they MUST agree. Agreed?

I BELIEVE a temple will be built, and I believe a war is coming, sooner than most people think. I am expecting it to start any day now.

you know I can't answer that. 1 reason is the forum doesn't permit "personal revelation". But, scripture backs what the Lord showed, and that is more than enough.