Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[Fireinfolding]

Jesus is both the stone the builders reject and also the rock placed in the midst of them, the same binding and loosing verse is found later in Mat 18:18

Jesus speaking to his disciples (gathered together) at it shows that is who he speaking to Mat 18:1 all the way up to here...

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, ((( there am I)))
in the midst of them.

He is the rock (the one with living water) even the stone (The Father) laid in Sion, as he is rock, chief cornerstone and the Apostle of our profession, Hebrews doesnt name Peter as that but Jesus Christ. I think Paul said he thought Cephas seemed to be somewhat of a pillar with a couple of the others.

Christ (the rock) even the Son of God (the stone laid in Sion) even speaks to being in the midst of (when speaking to them plurally). And that was in the context of the binding on earth and the loosing even there.

He says right there AGAIN I SAY which follows that where TWO of them agreed ( and on earth more specifically) in case you missed that as touching a thing that it will be done for them of his Father in heaven. Shows right there he (the rock) being in the very midst of them even in that.

The Father was to lay the stone of stumbling (even the rock of offense, Jesus Christ) IN Sion. So, if Jesus (the Son of God) they reccognized as such (this was given of God of Christ) who is both the stone of stumbling and rock of offence (equally). That shows me God revealing his Son in them) even as Paul said when it pleased God in Gal 1: 15-16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood, even as Peter (where flesh and blood did not reveal Christ as the Son of God) as even he was as a tender root growing up in their understanding. The Father (by Christ) was beginning to reveal these things to them. Paul speaks to the same in respects to Peter in the next chapter Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same (his Son) was mighty in me toward the Gentiles Christ (the Son of God) even the rock in you. THE Apostle of our profession Heb 3:1 (Who is also the Son of God) adding that in parenthesis so no one comes back and says "nuh uh Jesus is not an apostle he just appointed them"

 

[bbbbbbb]

Indeed. And the term exists to distinguish veneration given to Our Lady from latria, which is worship, given to God alone.

Indeed

 

[Root of Jesse]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

• As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and historyof these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).

Typical Catholic confusion.

Which is different from Latria, which is the worship of God.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think the literal sense of the text is that the Church is built on Rock, the first Pope. I think that there can be an allegorical/mystical sense in which this applies to all Christians.

First you would have to prove that Peter did sit at the seat of leadership to the church of Rome (which is an impossible task) IF Peter believed himself to be the rock that had the keys to leadership he would not have referred to all believers as living stones also, which IS well documented.

I think that seems like a false dichotomy. I know that the Popes and other Catholic Bishops succeeded from Rock and the other Apostles as the leaders of the Church.

Well that seems like false dichotomy to me since. What is being passed on is the Holy Spirit and it is not to an exclusive group like popes and bishops

I'm not sure what Scripture you are referring to. I know that in the Bible, the early Christians went by the oral Word.

Did you not see post #2016 ? I don't know why you are responding to this post alone when the one next includes the scripture that your asking about.

 

[patricius79]

First you would have to prove that Peter did sit at the seat of leadership to the church of Rome (which is an impossible task)

Not really. As far as I know, it is not Catholic doctrine that the Popes have to live in Rome. I think that Rock did establish himself in Rome, but in any case the early Church believed that Rock had a Successor, and the early Church believed in Succession.

IF Peter believed himself to be the rock that had the keys to leadership he would not have referred to all believers as living stones also

Why?

Well that seems like false dichotomy to me since. What is being passed on is the Holy Spirit and it is not to an exclusive group like popes and bishops
Did you not see post #2016 ? I don't know why you are responding to this post alone when the one next includes the scripture that your asking about.

No I didn't see it. Have to go back and look. I don't see a Scripture there. What Scripture are you talking about?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Which is different from Latria, which is the worship of God.

What would you call this?

 

[patricius79]

What would you call this? View attachment 168507

Reminds me of Moses worshipping God in the Burning Bush, and taking off his shoes because the place where he was standing was "holy ground".

But can we get back to the oral tradition of Sola Scriptura?

 

[Root of Jesse]

What would you call this? View attachment 168507

I don't know. It need context.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Not really. As far as I know, it is not Catholic doctrine that the Popes have to live in Rome. I think that Rock did establish himself in Rome, but in any case the early Church believed that Rock had a Successor, and the early Church believed in Succession.



Why?



No I didn't see it. Have to go back and look. I don't see a Scripture there. What Scripture are you talking about?

sorry it was post 2316
why what?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Wow this is a long thread! Of course I just jumped in an have not read EVERYTHING that was mentioned thus far. All I will say is that I do agree that the Holy Spirit still has the capability to inspire men with His holy word. However, IT MUST LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE! I hope we can all agree that God is constant and never chainging. So with that said, his message never changes! There are over several dozen catholic traditions and doctrines that do not line up with the bible. Some flat out contradict it! So we have to ask ourselves, if both the bible and the pope are "infallibly true", how is it possible that there are contradictions?

 

[Goatee]

Wow this is a long thread! Of course I just jumped in an have not read EVERYTHING that was mentioned thus far. All I will say is that I do agree that the Holy Spirit still has the capability to inspire men with His holy word. However, IT MUST LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE! I hope we can all agree that God is constant and never chainging. So with that said, his message never changes! There are over several dozen catholic traditions and doctrines that do not line up with the bible. Some flat out contradict it! So we have to ask ourselves, if both the bible and the pope are "infallibly true", how is it possible that there are contradictions?

Its all about interpreting the Bible, which was assembled by Catholics. You choose to interpret how you see fit and especially if you dont like Catholics!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Its all about interpreting the Bible, which was assembled by Catholics. You choose to interpret how you see fit and especially if you dont like Catholics!

hail the victim mentality ... yet truth prevails

 

[Goatee]

hail the victim mentality ... yet truth prevails

If you look at the forums, there is a massive % of Catholic faith bashing!!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

If you look at the forums, there is a massive % of Catholic faith bashing!!

why milk it then? what does it get you..

 

[toLiJC]

Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

the message of the biblical scriptures is sufficient, but is it certain whether every believer understands every thing thereof?!, because the biblical words and expressions represent strictly spiritual concepts that almost can't be found in any hitherto existing dictionary or encyclopedia, but they are principally revealed through right (exercise of) faith in That Who really is the only true Lord God as a whole, however, i also don't believe/think there is another official/true holy scripture for this planet besides the biblical

2 Peter 3:15-16 "account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Blessings

 

[Root of Jesse]

Wow this is a long thread! Of course I just jumped in an have not read EVERYTHING that was mentioned thus far. All I will say is that I do agree that the Holy Spirit still has the capability to inspire men with His holy word. However, IT MUST LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE! I hope we can all agree that God is constant and never chainging. So with that said, his message never changes! There are over several dozen catholic traditions and doctrines that do not line up with the bible. Some flat out contradict it! So we have to ask ourselves, if both the bible and the pope are "infallibly true", how is it possible that there are contradictions?

Name one.

 

[Goatee]

why milk it then? what does it get you..

Milk it? I dont think so

 

[Root of Jesse]

the message of the biblical scriptures is sufficient, but is it certain whether every believer understands every thing thereof?!, because the biblical words and expressions represent strictly spiritual concepts that almost can't be found in any hitherto existing dictionary or encyclopedia, but they are principally revealed through right (exercise of) faith in That Who really is the only true Lord God as a whole, however, i also don't believe/think there is another official/true holy scripture for this planet besides the biblical

2 Peter 3:15-16 "account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Blessings

Do you believe that marriage is between one man and one woman? Is that a doctrine of your church?

 

[toLiJC]

Do you believe that marriage is between one man and one woman? Is that a doctrine of your church?

yes, i believe the marriage is between a man and a woman - this is the natural that God has made to be in this regard

Blessings

 

[Root of Jesse]

yes, i believe the marriage is between a man and a woman - this is the natural that God has made to be in this regard

Blessings

Where is that doctrine explicitly stated in the Bible? After all, David and Solomon had multiple wives and concubines. In other words, different minds could embrace polygamy or monogamy, because the doctrine is not explicit in the Bible. Therefore, sola scriptura is not right.