Historical Church Leaders Call Pope Antichrist

[Erose]

Yes, he was the Patriarch of Alexandria. St. Athanasius was in full communion with the Catholic Church and the Successor of St. Rock, and laid his case before him during the Arian crisis.

When Pope St. Julius wrote that Athanasius never should have been ousted without the approval of the Papacy, Athanasius preserved Julius's writing without objection.

No Bishop except the Vicar of Christ had the authority to define the N.T. Canon.

I think one should be careful here, because quite honestly no evidence from that time shows any pope mandating a Biblical canon over the whole Church. Pope Damacus and the Latin bishops at the Synod of Rome established canon that was binding for the Patriarchate of Rome in the 4th century; but the synod did not mandate the canon for all of Christianity. I think that it is helpful here to remember the primary reason for the establishment of a canon, which was what writings could be read in the Liturgy.

It should also be pointed out that they probably weren't proclaiming anything that wasn't already happening in Rome anyway.

Anyway after this synod, the setting the canon for liturgical usage started spreading through various synods, and eventually just became accepted across the board.

 

[patricius79]

I think one should be careful here, because quite honestly no evidence from that time shows any pope mandating a Biblical canon over the whole Church. Pope Damacus and the Latin bishops at the Synod of Rome established canon that was binding for the Patriarchate of Rome in the 4th century; but the synod did not mandate the canon for all of Christianity. I think that it is helpful here to remember the primary reason for the establishment of a canon, which was what writings could be read in the Liturgy.

It should also be pointed out that they probably weren't proclaiming anything that wasn't already happening in Rome anyway.

Anyway after this synod, the setting the canon for liturgical usage started spreading through various synods, and eventually just became accepted across the board.

I'm no historian, but I think the Popes have always been the Vicars of Christ. So if the Decree of Pope Damasus gave a N.T. Canon, that would naturally have had authority with reference to the whole Church.

 

[Erose]

I'm no historian, but I think the Popes have always been the Vicars of Christ. So if the Decree of Pope Damasus gave a N.T. Canon, that would naturally have had authority with reference to the whole Church.

Not necessarily. Matters that were specifically for his specific Patriarchate, are not binding to the whole Church. If that was so, then all particular Churches and Patriarchates would be using the same liturgy and canon law that we have in the Latin Church. In all reality at that time the discussion when it came to canon, was not necessarily what was and was not inspired writings; but rather what was and was not allowed to be read during the Mass/Divine Liturgy. Now one can argue that these questions were one and the same sure; but that information has come down to us. Anyway this is a matter for the local and not universal Church.

 

[patricius79]

Not necessarily. Matters that were specifically for his specific Patriarchate, are not binding to the whole Church. If that was so, then all particular Churches and Patriarchates would be using the same liturgy and canon law that we have in the Latin Church. In all reality at that time the discussion when it came to canon, was not necessarily what was and was not inspired writings; but rather what was and was not allowed to be read during the Mass/Divine Liturgy. Now one can argue that these questions were one and the same sure; but that information has come down to us. Anyway this is a matter for the local and not universal Church.

Well sure, what would be allowed to be read during the Mass would be obviously connected to the issue of Divine Inspiration.

 

[Meowzltov]

bump

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Knowledge of the language.

No offense to your knowledge but I'll stick with recognized concordances... I'm sure they know Greek and Hebrew too.

 

[Meowzltov]

No offense to your knowledge but I'll stick with recognized concordances... I'm sure they know Greek and Hebrew too.

Concordances are good; I use them too. But I've caught Strong's in an error or two. And my knowledge of Hebrew is pretty basic so it makes me wonder how many errors someone who actually is fluent in Hebrew might find.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Concordances are good; I use them too. But I've caught Strong's in an error or two. And my knowledge of Hebrew is pretty basic so it makes me wonder how many errors someone who actually is fluent in Hebrew might find.

Could you elaborate? I am interested in knowing any and all errors present in all things used for understanding God's Word.
Thanx...

 

[stage five]

No offense to your knowledge but I'll stick with recognized concordances... I'm sure they know Greek and Hebrew too.

The concordance has nothing to do with it and does not disagree with me.
Petros is a masculine noun.
Petra is feminine.

Unfortunately you do not seem to understand the basics of how Greek works. It's not like in English where words have one spelling. The masculine form is used because Peter is masculine. Calling him Petra would be like calling him Michelle.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Isnt the wisdom of God feminine too?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Isnt the wisdom of God feminine too?

Like wouldnt this be similar to calling Christ the Sophia of God (rather then the Michelle)? lol

 

[patricius79]

No offense to your knowledge but I'll stick with recognized concordances... I'm sure they know Greek and Hebrew too.

I don't know Greek or Hebrew, but I know that the name Peter means "Rock", and that Christ built the Church on Rock (Peter), thus founding the Papacy.

 

[fhansen]

Here are some quotes that show that all the protestants and even some catholics considered the papacy to be the antichrist:

Eberhard II, archbishop of Salzburg (Roman Catholic)
"stated at a synod of bishops held at Regensburg in 1240 (some scholars say 1241) that the people of his day were "accustomed" to calling the pope antichrist." -LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, 4 vols. (Wash DC: Review and Herald publishing assc, 1950-1954)

John Wycliffe
"When the western church was divided for about 40 years between two rival popes, one in Rome and the other in Avigon, France, each pope called the other pope antichrist - and John Wycliffe is reputed to have regarded them as both being right: "two halves of Antichrist, making up the perfect Man of Sin between them." -Ibid

Martin Luther (Lutheran)
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom. (In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9.

Cotton Mather (Congregational Theologian)
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.

John Wesley (Methodist)
Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.

Ellen G. White (Seven Day Adventists)
"This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. That gigantic system of false religion is a masterpiece of Satan's power--a monument of his efforts to seat himself upon the throne to rule the earth according to his will.

Thomas Cranmer (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.

Roger Williams (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.

1689 London Baptist Confession
Chapter 26: Of the Church. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. ( Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11, 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9 )

John Knox (Scotch Presbyterian)
Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from The Zurich Letters, pg. 199 by John Knox.
John Calvin (Presbyterian)
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from Institutes by John Calvin.

Yes, some of popes were pretty bad. But while behaving badly they at least didn't manage to mangle the gospel the way many of their accusers did later on, or prophesy falsely the way Ellen White did.

 

[farout]

Seeing how you included EG White in your list, please quote for me something she wrote that is heretical, that opposes the righteousness of Christ. Did she ever state that she was equal to or above God as many Popes have claimed? Has she taught people that traditions carry more weight than scripture? has she blasphemed God by claiming to be able to forgive sins?

I believe She said that the atonement was not complete in Christ death and resurrection. That would need to be explained better to me. I believe she make some perdictions that never happened.

 

[stage five]

Like wouldnt this be similar to calling Christ the Sophia of God (rather then the Michelle)? lol

Christ would be Logos (Word) for the Greeks and Sophia (Wisdom) is often considered to refer to the Holy Spirit.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I don't know Greek or Hebrew, but I know that the name Peter means "Rock", and that Christ built the Church on Rock (Peter), thus founding the Papacy.

How do you 'know' this? I made a post showing that Peter was not the head of the early church, he had a wife and was not the key figure in it's beginnings... he denied Christ three times... does that sound like a rock to you?

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Why did Paul refer to Jesus as the Rock and not Peter? If the torch was passed to Peter as Christ's representative on earth as the Papacy claims, wouldn't Paul have confirmed this? Of course, he didn't because Peter was an apostle like he was.

The premise of Matt 16:18 is that Peter's faith, in declaring Jesus to be the Son of God, was what Christ was going to use to build His church upon... the faith given to man only from the Father through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Christ would be Logos (Word) for the Greeks and Sophia (Wisdom) is often considered to refer to the Holy Spirit.

Says both Jews and Greeks and of God made unto us the same

1 Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom G4678 (Sophia) of God.

1 Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom G4678 (Sophia) , and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I believe She said that the atonement was not complete in Christ death and resurrection. That would need to be explained better to me.

Here are some quotes from her..

Jesus is our atoning sacrifice; we can make no atonement for ourselves, but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God." "Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, . . . but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot." "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." It is by virtue of this precious blood that the sin-stricken soul can be restored to soundness. While you are putting up your petition to God, the Holy Spirit applies the faithful promises of God to your heart. In moments of perplexity, when Satan suggests doubt and discouragement, the Spirit of the Lord will lift up as a standard against him the faithful sayings of Christ, and the bright beams of the Sun of Righteousness will flash into your mind and soul. When Satan would overwhelm you with despair, the Holy Spirit will point you to the intercession made for you by a living Saviour. Christ is the fragrance, the holy incense, which makes your petitions acceptable to the Father. When the light of Christ's righteousness is fully understood and accepted, love, joy, peace, and inexpressible gratitude will pervade the soul, and the language of him who is blessed will be, "Thy gentleness hath made me great." {ST, August 22, 1892 par. 5}

Let us study God's law in connection with the work of Christ. Man broke the law. Christ came to this earth to make an atonement for transgression. His atonement was complete in every part. As He hung on the cross, He could say, "It is finished." The demands of justice were satisfied. The way to the throne of grace was opened for every sinner. {ST, July 31, 1901 par. 8}

Below is what we believe in regard to the atonement of Christ and it's ministration...

In the parable of Matthew 22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investigative Judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, [Matthew 22:11.]—to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. [Revelation 7:14.] He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who upon examination are seen to have the wedding garment on, are accepted of God, and accounted worthy of a share in his kingdom and a seat upon his throne. This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigative Judgment, the closing work in the sanctuary above. {GC88 428.1}

When the work of investigation shall be ended, when the cases of those who in all ages have professed to be followers of Christ have been examined and decided, then, and not till then, probation will close, and the door of mercy will be shut. Thus in the one short sentence, “They that were ready went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut,” we are carried down through the Saviour's final ministration, to the time when the great work for man's salvation shall be completed. {GC88 428.2}

In the service of the earthly sanctuary, which, as we have seen, is a figure of the service in the heavenly, when the high priest on the day of atonement entered the most holy place, the ministration in the first apartment ceased. God commanded, “There shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out.” [Leviticus 16:17.] So when Christ entered the holy of holies to perform the closing work of the atonement, he ceased his ministration in the first apartment. But when the ministration in the first apartment ended, the ministration in the second apartment began. When in the typical service the high priest left the holy on the day of atonement, he went in before God to present the blood of the sin-offering in behalf of all Israel who truly repented of their sins. So Christ had only completed one part of his work as our intercessor, to enter upon another portion of the work, and he still pleaded his blood before the Father in behalf of sinners. {GC88 428.3}

[/quote]

 

[Fireinfolding]

Wisdom of man or of God is of the same

 

[patricius79]

How do you 'know' this? I made a post showing that Peter was not the head of the early church, he had a wife and was not the key figure in it's beginnings... he denied Christ three times... does that sound like a rock to you?

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Why did Paul refer to Jesus as the Rock and not Peter? If the torch was passed to Peter as Christ's representative on earth as the Papacy claims, wouldn't Paul have confirmed this? Of course, he didn't because Peter was an apostle like he was.

The premise of Matt 16:18 is that Peter's faith, in declaring Jesus to be the Son of God, was what Christ was going to use to build His church upon... the faith given to man only from the Father through the Holy Spirit.

I agree that in a sense the Church is built on Rock's faith. But even many Protestant scholars, including DA Carson acknowledge that the plain meaning of the verse is that Christ is promising to build the Church on Simon Rock. That's why he gave him that name. Was Rock weak before Pentecost (and even after)? Sure. But Christ's power is perfected in weakness. There have been good Popes and bad Popes, but through Christ's grace the Church has remained united in the Papacy. You say that Christ is the Rock. Of course he is. That is why it is so remarkable that Christ gave Simon the name "Rock", thus investing him with his authority in a unique way. In fact, Christ specifically prayed for Rock that his faith would not fail, and that after he turned again he would strengthen the brethren.

It's simple: the unity of the Church, in Christ, must be reflected in a single, authoritative teaching office.