Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

[ihavefoundgod951]

It says also in the acts of the apostles that they broke bread on the first day, which may indicate they where making the switch as early as then.

I don't understand the switch to the first day tho? The 7th is a number of completion, the 1st day is the beginning, the day God made light, Jesus is light, maybe this is why?
Jesus died on Friday, kept the sabbath Saturday, raised back to life on Sunday, then he sat down at the right hand of God (completion)

I still don't understand it.

Thing that bothers me is Jesus said how terrible it will be for pregnant women in the last days, pray it will not be on a sabbath day.

What is he saying here did he expect us to be still keeping the sabbath.

Confusing, but the early christians definitely moved away from the 7th day sabbath.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It says also in the acts of the apostles that they broke bread on the first day, which may indicate they where making the switch as early as then.

I don't understand the switch to the first day tho? The 7th is a number of completion, the 1st day is the beginning, the God made light, Jesus is light, maybe this is why?
Jesus died on Friday, kept the sabbath Saturday, raised back to life of Sunday, then he sat down at the right hand of God (completion)

I still don't understand it.

Thing that bothers me is Jesus said how terrible it will be for pregnant women in the last days, pray it will not be on a sabbath day.

What is he saying here did he expect us to be still keeping the sabbath.

Confusing, but the early christians definitely moved away from the 7th day sabbath.

It wasn't really about "switching" to begin with. The Lord's Day is but a day chosen by Christians to gather together in worship and also to educate, encourage, and instruct one another. At that time there wasn't any bible put together so they either had letters (epistles) from the apostles that were copied or people who studied with the Apostles to learn about Christianity there.
The reason that they chose Sunday I believe was that at the time people worked 5 days and had 2 days off like many do today and that the early church was composed mainly of Jewish converts until Paul became an Apostle there wasn't much outreach at all to non Jews. Jews were required to observe the Sabbath so Christian Jews couldn't properly get together on that day and many Jews still felt that they had to attend the synagog on that day so in order to get together as Christians they had to choose another time, place, and that is why Sunday was chosen. Sunday wasn't a replacement for the Sabbath for Christians because the Jewish converts were STILL keeping Saturday as they could be punished for NOT doing so as long as the Jewish Priesthood was in power over them according to the rules of the OT one could be stoned to death for breaking the Sabbath. I'm not totally sure that it happened often but I'm sure with what we see of the treatment of the earliest Christians which includes the deaths of most of the apostles and Jesus that Jews who converted could be under a microscope for ANY infraction of the Jewish law so as to silence their witness and the mandatory Sabbath observance could be such a tool to rid them of their Christian beliefs.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

That's interesting

I found the very moment in time the sabbath was out lawed, it was AD 326 at the council of laodicea, canon 29

This is the reason they gave for canon 29

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Catholic origin for Sunday keeping -

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

Catholic origin for Sunday keeping -

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic

There was only one church back then, the Catholic Church

Definition of Catholic= universal

The universal church AKA the body of Christ AKA Christendom

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

Catholic origin for Sunday keeping -

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/denominational-statements-on-the-sabbath/id/982/catholic

Another problem with this is also there was no bible back then, they just had bits and pieces of it, or they where in the process of writing it.

God bless you, may the Lord lead us all to wisdom and truth on these subjects .

 

[Bob S]

Another problem with this is also there was no bible back then, they just had bits and pieces of it, or they where in the process of writing it.

God bless you, may the Lord lead us all to wisdom and truth on these subjects .

When was the Eastern church organized? Eastern Orthodox. For some reason I thought the Greeks did not conform to the Papacy.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

Officially around the 10th century I believe, but it was off and on for many centuries before that.

Was very fragile relationship between East and west, many things where obstacles IE culture and the fact the east didn't like the Roman Empire putting it's stamp of christianity (enforcing rules and doctrines ect)

 

[BobRyan]

There was only one church back then, the Catholic Church

Definition of Catholic= universal

The universal church AKA the body of Christ AKA Christendom

When is it that you imagine that the only denomination was the Catholic church???

 

[BobRyan]

When was the Eastern church organized? Eastern Orthodox. For some reason I thought the Greeks did not conform to the Papacy.

Or do the Orthodox consider the Roman Pope to be infallible? Their "leader" - - their "holy father"??

 

[BobRyan]

I don't understand why the christians would move the sabbath to the Lords day.

But look at this I found
Colossians 2:16

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Col 2 is not abolishing eating, or drinking, or religion, or the Sabbath.

Rather Col 2 is a specific attack on the traditions of man.

Col 2
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.


You may think "well yes - a Sabbath keeper would say that" - but here you miss the point -- that even the majority of the Sunday scholars agree that the SABBATH of the TEN Commandments - REMAINS for Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

No amount of ranting will substitute for Bible fact.

I just read from http://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

The history of the early Christian's activity proves that the church started using the first day.

So that is your "substitute" for a Bible text supporting your speculation?

I just read from Malachi 3" "I the LORD your God do not change"
and from Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

And from Eph 6:2 that the unit of Ten - in which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- is still binding on all mankind. A Bible detail so obvious that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship agree -- such as Spurgeon, Moody, R.C. Sproul, Stanley, the "Westminster Confession of Faith", the "Baptist Confession of Faith", Matthew Henry... et al "get that point".

Constantine, as I previously wrote put his redundant stamp...

And then I read from Mark 7:6-13 -- showing how "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - HAMMERS the traditions of man that seek to edit/alter/change the LAW of God.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

======================

Of course a few Catholics in the General theology section of this board object to the "Sola Scriptura" doctrine as I have quoted it from Mark 7:6-13, and Acts 17:11 testing all tradition and doctrine... but there we simply "agree to differ" -- you may choose tradition over the Bible in that case. But I do not.

hence your "speculative" web site said "The 10 commandment law including the requirement to keep the Sabbath day were abolished at the cross" http://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

-- and by contrast the Word of God said "Do we then abolish the LAW of God by our Faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

Yet "another" opportunity to hammer the flaws traditions and doctrines of men via the WORD of God - "sola scriptura".

Thus even the Catholic Church is not entirely wrong when it says "nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

You have quoted from the Bible that God does not change. What do you mean by that? What was your reason for quoting that verse?

you appealed to the traditions of man - as your "proof" your evidence for deleting one of God's Commandments.

So I said --

I just read from http://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

The history of the early Christian's activity proves that the church started using the first day.

So that is your "substitute" for a Bible text supporting your speculation?

I just read from Malachi 3" "I the LORD your God do not change"
and from Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

And from Eph 6:2 that the unit of Ten - in which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- is still binding on all mankind. A Bible detail so obvious that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship agree -- such as Spurgeon, Moody, R.C. Sproul, Stanley, the "Westminster Confession of Faith", the "Baptist Confession of Faith", Matthew Henry... et al "get that point".


then I read from Mark 7:6-13 -- showing how "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - HAMMERS the traditions of man that seek to edit/alter/change the LAW of God.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Meowzltov]

Catholic answers - address this question


Catholic Answers sets the record straight?


(that quote was also from the same link as posted above)

So the basic argument is that while there is no actual Bible text calling week-day-1 Sabbath, or the Lord's Day - or stating that Sabbath was abolished and weekly week-day-1 worship services took it's place -- still there is some hope of finding a hint that maybe weekly week-day-1 worship services happened at all even if nothing to say they replace Sabbath. The search is on at that site to find such evidence!

The fact that they did claim to make such a change is not only supported by the "Catholic Answers" article - but also discussed on this thread starting here --
Apr 8, 2015 #1

With proof posted many places on that other thread -- including
Oct 3, 2015 #387

Bob, did you bother to look up their verses an follow their reasoning?

 

[Bob Crowley]

The change of Christian emphasis from the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) to the Lord's Day (Sunday) took place very early on. It was already mentioned in Scripture itself - in Acts, and two of Paul's letters - 1 Corinthians and Colossians.

Here's a link here referring to the change of the day of worship to the Lord's Day.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

There were several reasons for the change.

First we're under a new covenant, and the old has passed away.

Second, as the rift grew between Rome and the Jews, culminating in the destruction of the Temple and Judea circa 70AD, the Christians had extra reason not to be seen as just another Jewish sect. So it suited them to make Sunday the day of worship, and not the Jewish Sabbath. The Christians had enough problems of their own without being seen as just one more set of Jewish troublemakers with the Roman authorities.

Third, and probably the most important, Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. On the Sabbath He was cold stone dead in the tomb. Which makes more sense to celebrate the Eucharist - the day He rose from the dead, or the day He spent lying on a stone slab?

As this lady put it -

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/did-the-early-church-move-the-sabbath-from-saturday-to-sunday

The early Church did not move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Instead "The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday, which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ" (CCC 2190). Sunday is the day Catholics are bound to keep, not Saturday.


We see evidence of this in Scripture:

• On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7).
• On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2).
• Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16).

PS - Personal Request - How do you put "quote" marks around text you want to highlight, or want to emphasise is from another source. I've been using italic and underlined text to make it clear, but I thought there might be some way to make it more obvious. I also post on Catholic Answers Forums, and they have a tool you can use to do so, which is quite helpful. Christian Forums probably does too, but I haven't been able to find it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

PS - Personal Request - How do you put "quote" marks around text you want to highlight, or want to emphasise is from another source. I've been using italic and underlined text to make it clear, but I thought there might be some way to make it more obvious. I also post on Catholic Answers Forums, and they have a tool you can use to do so, which is quite helpful. Christian Forums probably does too, but I haven't been able to find it.

Highlight text you want to be quoted and click the + button (5th from the right) and choose "Quote"

You can also type in quote with brackets around it [] in front of a section to be quoted and /quote with [] around it to end the quoted section.

BTW I contend one reason that Sunday was chosen by early Christians is because most of the earliest believers were Jews who still felt they had to participate in Temple worship on Saturday and still were keeping the Sabbath and the synagogs were not always accommodating to Christians so choosing Sunday was the logical thing to do as there would not be seen as it directly competing with Judaism. As the church grew and grew I contend the Jews went from a majority to a minority and Gentiles just figured Sunday was their day that Saturday wasn't important to them.

 

[Bob Crowley]

BTW I contend one reason that Sunday was chosen by early Christians is because most of the earliest believers were Jews who still felt they had to participate in Temple worship on Saturday and still were keeping the Sabbath and the synagogs were not always accommodating to Christians so choosing Sunday was the logical thing to do as there would not be seen as it directly competing with Judaism. As the church grew and grew I contend the Jews went from a majority to a minority and Gentiles just figured Sunday was their day that Saturday wasn't important to them.

This would tie in with disassociating themselves from being perceived by the Romans as a Jewish sect. As you pointed out, the earliest Christians were Jews to a man, but this situation changed rapidly with Paul's missionary journeys.

Thanks for the advice regarding the quotes. I had no idea what the "+" sign was for, and didn't realise it had a drop-down menu.

I already knew about the HTML coding

etc. but I was looking for an easy way out.

So I decided to use your paragraph for my first trial!

 

[BobRyan]

The change of Christian emphasis from the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) to the Lord's Day (Sunday) took place very early on. It was already mentioned in Scripture itself - in Acts, and two of Paul's letters - 1 Corinthians and Colossians.

Here's a link here referring to the change of the day of worship to the Lord's Day.

1. Not one text in the NT saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"
2. Every reference to sunday in the NT is of the form "week day 1" not Sabbath and not the Lord's Day.
3. There are NO "week day 1 after week-day-1" worship gatherings - sequences in the NT.
4. There ARE Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath gospel teaching and worship services for both Jews and Gentiles given in the NT - in Acts 17 and Acts 18.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

There were several reasons for the change.

First we're under a new covenant, and the old has passed away.

The New Covenant is given in Jer 31:31-33 and is in the exact same form in Heb 8:6-10

In both cases "I will write my LAW on their heart and on their mind"

hence not one NT reference to week-day-1 as a weekly cycle day of worship.

 

[Sophrosyne]

This would tie in with disassociating themselves from being perceived by the Romans as a Jewish sect. As you pointed out, the earliest Christians were Jews to a man, but this situation changed rapidly with Paul's missionary journeys.

Thanks for the advice regarding the quotes. I had no idea what the "+" sign was for, and didn't realise it had a drop-down menu.

I already knew about the HTML coding

I think from what I've read here and there that the Romans actually had some respect for Judaism and little if none for Christianity so I don't think Christians would profit from disassociating themselves from Judaism. I do think however that they chose Sunday because their beliefs were frowned upon or worse they were persecuted perhaps even to the point of fearing for their lives. It is quite possible many of the early Jewish believers could only truly worship God in a Christian fashion on Sunday which flies in the face of those who proclaim they were indeed worshiping as Christians on the Sabbath Day and perhaps even at the synagogues.

 

[Erose]

To start off with the Catholic Church has not changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It hasn't. The Jewish Sabbath day is still on Saturday. As far as I know every practicing Jew still honors the Sabbath on Saturday.

The Sabbath is part of the Old Covenant made between God and the Jewish people. The gentile members of the Catholic Church are not under that Covenant. That Covenant was not made with us, thus we as gentiles are not held to that Covenant. Thus we do not have to honor the Sabbath. It is as simple as that.

Third, Sunday is not the Sabbath. It has never been considered the Sabbath in the Catholic Church, in an official sense. Rather it is spoken of as the Lord's Day. The Lord's Day is the day that Jesus Christ rose from the dead; and thus for Christians this day, the first day of the week, became a major day of worship for the early community, and has continued on to the present time. It has in a sense become a Christian version of the Jewish Sabbath over the centuries, as it became a day that work was restrained from so that people can go to worship with the community at Church. If I would have to guess the call to restrain from labor on that day by Church authority was to make sure that the landowners allowed their people time to gather for worship. Anyhow Sunday is only referred to as the Sabbath in a sense, as it is a day recommended by the Church to restrain from labor and give to God: but it is not the Sabbath.

 

[Bob S]

you appealed to the traditions of man - as your "proof" your evidence for deleting one of God's Commandments.

So I said --



So that is your "substitute" for a Bible text supporting your speculation?

Hey my friend, You are the pot calling the kettle black. You quote
Babylon, as you call all other parts of the Christian world, and when I have historical proof that early Christians came together on the first day you can only say "you appealed to the traditions of man - as your "proof" your evidence for deleting one of God's Commandments." Sorry, but I cannot take that seriously. I have pointed out from scripture that Christians are not under the 10 commandments and all you have done is ignore or twist the scripture provided

I just read from Malachi 3" "I the LORD your God do not change"
and from Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

That is nice, but what does that have to do with God's plan for mankind. It was made before the foundation of the Earth and it was/is His plan to give mankind a way to escape the penalty of the law given to the Israelites at Sinai. God did this. The first covenant did not work as He knew it wouldn't. He has not changed the plan. It is working out just as He planned. No one has argued that God changes. Please do not put words in my mouth. What you have done is ignore the fact that God's plan was to, through Jesus, give us a better covenant not like the first one. You can try to hide this fact all you want, but it is the real truth. I know it blasts your Sabbath out of the water, but you are going to have to deal with that if you are honest.

And from Eph 6:2 that the unit of Ten - in which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- is still binding on all mankind. A Bible detail so obvious that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship agree -- such as Spurgeon, Moody, R.C. Sproul, Stanley, the "Westminster Confession of Faith", the "Baptist Confession of Faith", Matthew Henry... et al "get that point".

And there you go doing what you tried to belittle me with, appealing to Babylon. Your church hates the remainder of Christendom yet you are so quick to quote what they say. OY!
As I have stated many times since posting here "morality is forever". Honoring our parents is our moral duty and if we are Christians it is our privilege and we do it out of love. Just because the 10 commandments were only temporary commands as noted in 2Cor3 does not mean Christians are free from morality. Israel proved that the 10 were never attainable that is why He planned from the beginning to send His Son to save us in different manner. This time not by the guidance of the 10 commandments, This time by the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Please study 2Cor 3 without your SDA glasses.

then I read from Mark 7:6-13 -- showing how "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition - HAMMERS the traditions of man that seek to edit/alter/change the LAW of God.

Boy, I sure wish I could edit your life. I am sure it would read don't do as I do, do as I say. No one has altered the law. That is a misnomer. If there is not any law there is not any sin. There is no Sabbath law for Christians, but if you continue to keep telling us that we are the ones that changed the law then baby you have a lot to answer for. The law was 613 laws in one book that God gave to Israel. You have altered those laws by picking and choosing how to observe Sabbath and ignoring all the other ritual laws that made up the 613 laws, changing the tithing system and ignoring thou shalt not kill by supporting abortions just to name a couple. Yes, your church supports abortions. They are done daily in Adventist hospitals. Don't pin Mark7:6-13 on Babylon and go around with noses in the air. Take your mask off friend. You are again the pot calling the kettle black.