Is God a liar?

[Aman777]

My question of course is only hypothetical. God of course is not a liar. The point of the OP is that God would not create a world in which he deliberately placed evidence to fool us into thinking the world was ancient when in fact it was young or that life evolved when it did not. And the evidence IS there.

Amen. The problem is with ancient men's theology which is in error. What most people do not know is that Adam's firmament/heaven was made the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and other HeavenS (2nd and 3rd) were made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4, the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made. Gen 1:10 Ancient theologians didn't notice so they falsely assumed that the present world is the SAME as Adam's world. Amen?

 

[mark kennedy]

When dealing with proper interpretation of the text - spiritualizing all the details away to eisegete whatever the whim of the day dictates - is not compelling interpretation of any text.

When it comes to the Gen 1 context:

God is not "still creating the sun" on day 4.

God is not "still creating plants" on day 3 -- no matter how many new plants grow each year.

God is not "still creating air" on day 2 -- no matter how much O2 plants produce each year.

God is not "still creating man" on day 6 - no matter how many babies are born --

When it comes to proper Bible interpretation - that is compelling, context is everything, and "details matter".

God is not creating the sun on Day 4, I think God is making some adjustments that my the normative sequence of morning and night along with the relative movements of the stars are a lesser act of creation the the initial creation of the heavens and the earth.

 

[BobRyan]

Gen 1
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

God is not creating the sun on Day 4

Does anything in the text say that -- or do you choose to read that into the text no matter what it says??

I think God is making some adjustments that my the normative sequence of morning and night along with the relative movements of the stars are a lesser act of creation the the initial creation of the heavens and the earth.

Day 1 you have evening and morning - so then looking into our sky - a rotating planet and a single-sided light source (Earth is probably already in orbit around the Galactic center - in the Milkyway arm.)

Day two - atmosphere

Day 3 dry land and plants.

Day 4 - sun and moon. (Earth and moon are now in orbit around the sun. Sun is in orbit around our Galactic center.)

At least that is what is in the text.

 

[Meowzltov]

Day 1 you have evening and morning - so then looking into our sky - a rotating planet and a single-sided light source (Earth is probably already in orbit around the Galactic center - in the Milkyway arm.)

It is supposedly light without stars. He didn't create the stars until day four:
Genesis1:16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

Scientifically it's all messed up. You can't have light without a source for light aka the stars. Genesis 1 is simply not a history book.

 

[brotherjerry]

God was that light.

 

[Job8]

Scientifically it's all messed up. You can't have light without a source for light aka the stars. Genesis 1 is simply not a history book.

And your thinking is just humanistic thinking. If God is uncreated Light, He does not need the stars. That's why the stars are mentioned almost as an afterthought -- "He made the stars also". God does not need any of the heavenly bodies, and there will come a day when they all will be dismissed, and God Himself will be the Light of the universe. Study Revelation.

Genesis 1 is factual, historical, chronological, and absolutely reliable. In fact it is the only account in the universe that spells out the exact sequence of creation. People should b e thankful for that instead of complaining that the Bible is not a history book. It is that and much more.

 

[Aman777]

Gen 1
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

Does anything in the text say that -- or do you choose to read that into the text no matter what it says??

Day 1 you have evening and morning - so then looking into our sky - a rotating planet and a single-sided light source (Earth is probably already in orbit around the Galactic center - in the Milkyway arm.)

Day two - atmosphere

Day 3 dry land and plants.

Day 4 - sun and moon. (Earth and moon are now in orbit around the sun. Sun is in orbit around our Galactic center.)

At least that is what is in the text.

Here is the chronology, Scripturally:

Day 1...evening and morning or darkness/death and then Jesus/Light
Day 2...Adam's firmament or boundary of his world
Day 3...Adam's Earth, plants, herbs, Adam and then Trees
Day 4...the Heavenly bodies of our world
Day 5...ALL living creatures come forth from the Water on both worlds
Day 6...Today, Adam and Eve are born again, Jesus returns and gives Christians rule over Angels and changes animals into plant eaters
Day 7...Tomorrow, which has NO evening since death is destroyed, then God rests or ceases to create because Heaven is perfect and filled with Christians.

 

[Meowzltov]

God was that light.

God is part of the physical universe, part of Creation?

 

[Meowzltov]

And your thinking is just humanistic thinking. If God is uncreated Light, He does not need the stars. That's why the stars are mentioned almost as an afterthought -- "He made the stars also". God does not need any of the heavenly bodies, and there will come a day when they all will be dismissed, and God Himself will be the Light of the universe. Study Revelation.

Genesis 1 is factual, historical, chronological, and absolutely reliable. In fact it is the only account in the universe that spells out the exact sequence of creation. People should b e thankful for that instead of complaining that the Bible is not a history book. It is that and much more.

The New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in Revelation are a totally different universe that don't go by the same laws of physics we have. Who knows how things will work there?

But we know how things work here. And it is ridiculous to say that God is part of creation and that photons emanate from him.

 

[Aman777]

The New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in Revelation are a totally different universe that don't go by the same laws of physics we have. Who knows how things will work there?

But we know how things work here. And it is ridiculous to say that God is part of creation and that photons emanate from him.

Not really since Jesus in the OT is the Light. Here is what He looks like:

Eze 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of His loins even upward, and from the appearance of His loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. Eze 1:28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of One that spake.

Jesus IS the Light of the first Day and the Light of the 3rd Heaven. Rev 21:23

 

[Job8]

But we know how things work here. And it is ridiculous to say that God is part of creation and that photons emanate from him.

Please review. I said that God is UNCREATED LIGHT. Pantheism is for the those who do not believe.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

With all that you've said here I don't see God doing anything other than creating a situation that promoted faith and a more robust environment to discuss him and his virtues.

If he would have not done what he did he there would be no need to discuss him or the people who promote him

 

[Meowzltov]

Not really since Jesus in the OT is the Light. Here is what He looks like:

Eze 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of His loins even upward, and from the appearance of His loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. Eze 1:28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of One that spake.

Jesus IS the Light of the first Day and the Light of the 3rd Heaven. Rev 21:23

These are visions. You read them as symbols. Not literally.

 

[Meowzltov]

Please review. I said that God is UNCREATED LIGHT. Pantheism is for the those who do not believe.

Light is photons. You are saying that photons emanate from God. It's ridiculous.

 

[Aman777]

These are visions. You read them as symbols. Not literally.

Really? Is it okay to change anything you don't like into symbols? If so, I can understand WHY there are thousands of denominations. Do you think it's correct to change what the literal Spirit of Truth told us? Here is what it changes, Scripturally:

1. Gen 1:3 does NOT show that Jesus is the Light of the First Day
2. Dan 3:25 which shows that the 4th man in the Fire was NOT the Son of God
3. When Jesus was transfigured, His face did NOT shine like the Sun Mat 17:2
4. Saul was NOT blinded by Jesus on the road to Damascus Act 22:6
5. Jesus is NOT the Light of Heaven Rev 21:23

Please show us Scripture which say that Jesus is NOT what the Holy Spirit told us in Ezekiel. Changing God's Holy Word into "visions" also takes away the Scripture which shows that Jesus has preeminence or first place in everything as Col 1:18, Rev 1:8, Rev 1:11, Rev 21:6 and Rev 22:13 clearly states.

 

[Job8]

Light is photons. You are saying that photons emanate from God. It's ridiculous.

Since God's light is unique Divine light, there is no need to bring photons into the discussion. Nobody knows anything about the light that emanates from God. The simple truth is that God is UNCREATED LIGHT. If He spoke cosmic light into existence, then that is cosmic light. If He caused the sun to become a light source, then that is sunlight.

 

[BobRyan]

The New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in Revelation are a totally different universe

It is the same universe - planet earth is simply getting melted down at the surface - having its atmosphere burned off - and being "redone".

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

It is the same universe - planet earth is simply getting melted down at the surface - having its atmosphere burned off - and being "redone".

Isn't this above our pay grade. I fail to see the reasoning in discussing the future works of God.

 

[Aman777]

It is the same universe - planet earth is simply getting melted down at the surface - having its atmosphere burned off - and being "redone".

UnScriptural. It's a New Heaven and New Earth and NOT the same world which murdered Jesus. Rev 21:1 It will no more be "redone" than Adam's world was redone, since ll Peter 3:10 shows that the elements will melt in the fervent heat of it's total destruction, as it is burned up. 2Pe 3:10

The Scoffers of the last days will NOT believe the above. ll Peter 3:3-7

 

[BobRyan]

Isn't this above our pay grade. I fail to see the reasoning in discussing the future works of God.

Well 2 Peter 3 says the elements on earth melt with fervent heat - that pretty much ends our atmosphere and explained "old heavens , old earth " being ended in Rev 21