Is God a liar?

[brotherjerry]

Aman

post 407 by me:
"Every person created physically is part of that same creation mechanism that God put in place...biology. "

post 408 by you:
You quote what I said above and then post:
"Really? Chapter and verse please."

Of which I proved you the "be fruitful and multiply" verses that expressly indicate that God put the mechanisms in place for procreation and reproduction...biology and such.

So this statement by you in post 418: "False. I did NOT ask you to prove the mechanisms for procreation and biology"
Is incorrect, long term memory must be going because you did not follow the conversation back far enough to see what was being talked about here.

Funny that your scriptural facts ignore that Christians did not start until 2000 years ago....go figure. I guess before that was day 5?

Verse 5 IS in Gen 1.

Yes it is....it is where God called the light day and the darkness night and there was evening and there was morning, one day. God did not call the light Jesus as you wanted to claim...it was called "day".

ALSO, Jesus was NOT created,

Correct in that Christ was not created (bad term on my part)

Gen 2:4 that you mentioned...is alternate meaning from a 24 hour period...it is speaking of a time frame...it is directly linked to Gen 1:1 and is referencing the 6 days of creation.

ALSO Jesus is called the Day here:

So what. That day is not the same day referenced In Gen 1 or 2. Every mention of 'day' does not equate to Jesus and you cannot pick and choose, you have to look at the context...and in Gen 1 we see the context being a 24 hour period .... there was evening and morning....

False, since Gen 2:4-7 shows that man was made BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain. He was also made before the Trees which GREW on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:12 AND Gen 2:8-9 AFTER man was made "every living creature that moveth" was created from the water. Gen 1:21 That is TWO separate creations, one on the 3rd Day by the Lord God and one on the 5th Day by the Trinity.

Wrong. And a theology that you have to make the Bible do all sorts of gymnastics to fit. Just as you are doing...treating the days as "ages" and then not even getting them to fit correctly.
Day 3 God planted everything in the earth. "sprout vegetation" and the multitude of mentioning the seeds of those plants. Everything was planted but there was no rain and no man to cultivate and bring forth the plants. We then see that when man was created God caused a garden to grow, and we see specific mention in verse 9 "God caused to grow every tree that was pleasing to the sight and good for food". Plant then grow is the process God put in place....from seed to maturity.

False, since Gen 1:21 AND Science agree that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from the water on Day 5. The cells within ALL living creatures CANNOT live without liquid water.

There ya go with science again. Irrelevant at this point. The BIBLE says that fish and birds were created before land animals. PERIOD.

The creatures made from the ground on the 6th Day were made AND Adam named them. Gen 2:19 With your understanding, HOW did Adam name them since you post that he was made AFTER the animals, which were made at the beginning of the 6th Day.

You so like to butcher the Bible don't you?
Let's take a look at Gen 2 shall we...
Gen 2:7 God formed man and breathed into his nostrils
Gen 2:8-14 is the creation of the garden, the only thing we see created in the garden at this point is plants vs 9 "God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food"
Remember we are still in the garden here...man has not left the Garden and it is a special place God did a special creation for, separate from the rest of the world that was created in the first 5 days, we are on day 6 here in the creation process. Up until God puts man in the garden. Once we hit that point it could be days, it could be years, it could be millenia that man was in the garden. But no matter what God has completed this day, there was evening and morning, day 6 as mentioned in Gen 1:31.

But once man was in the garden we see verse 18 "It is not good for man to be alone, I will make him a helper suitable for him"
Vs 19 "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to man to see what he would call them"
This again is a limited creation, these animals were already roaming the world, but God created another of each to be brought to man to be named and to see if any would be a suitable helper for man. vs 20 "but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" So then God caused man to go into a sleep and ultimately woman was created.

It's because I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History. You try to convince us that there is ONE Truth for Scripture and another Truth for the factual discoveries of Science. It doesn't compute.

There is but one truth. John 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"
What I realize is that the Bible is the Word of God. God gave us science, it is a tool to be used by man. Not to prove man right, but ultimately it will prove God right, and it has so far, even as far as Biblically....and where it has lacked in proving, is not a shortfall of the Bible, but a misunderstanding of man and the results of science. I always trust the Bible first, man gets low on my list.

And yes I know exactly what Strongs says about 'yowm'. But as I told you context is very very important. We are given context in Genesis 1 "there was evening and morning" which indicates a day, a 24 hour passage. Because there is no alternative meaning to evening or morning, even in the Hebrew. A day in Genesis 1 cannot mean continually, it cannot mean a year, it cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour period of time. PERIOD.

The creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven continues today. It will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to Earth and changes EVERY living creature into vegetarians. Gen 1:30 and Isa 11:7
Amen?

Um. no... the third heaven is already created. That is where the seat of God currently is. Paul mentions being caught up to the third heaven. He was not speaking prophetically but in past tense as something that happened. First heaven is the sky, second heaven is the stars and space, third heaven is where the throne is.

 

[Aman777]

Aman

post 407 by me:
"Every person created physically is part of that same creation mechanism that God put in place...biology. "

post 408 by you:
You quote what I said above and then post:
"Really? Chapter and verse please."

Of which I proved you the "be fruitful and multiply" verses that expressly indicate that God put the mechanisms in place for procreation and reproduction...biology and such.

So this statement by you in post 418: "False. I did NOT ask you to prove the mechanisms for procreation and biology"
Is incorrect, long term memory must be going because you did not follow the conversation back far enough to see what was being talked about here.

You misunderstood. You claimed that Genesis 1:28 was speaking of a biological event when it is speaking of a Spiritual event which continues today.

*** Funny that your scriptural facts ignore that Christians did not start until 2000 years ago....go figure. I guess before that was day 5?

Not so, since Adam and Eve were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually long BEFORE Christ died on the Cross 2k years ago. Gen 5:1-2 You don't seem to know that Jesus was there on the 1st Day of Creation.

***John 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"
What I realize is that the Bible is the Word of God. God gave us science, it is a tool to be used by man. Not to prove man right, but ultimately it will prove God right, and it has so far, even as far as Biblically....and where it has lacked in proving, is not a shortfall of the Bible, but a misunderstanding of man and the results of science. I always trust the Bible first, man gets low on my list.

And yes I know exactly what Strongs says about 'yowm'. But as I told you context is very very important. We are given context in Genesis 1 "there was evening and morning" which indicates a day, a 24 hour passage. Because there is no alternative meaning to evening or morning, even in the Hebrew. A day in Genesis 1 cannot mean continually, it cannot mean a year, it cannot mean anything other than a 24 hour period of time. PERIOD.

False, since a 24 hour day could NOT be measured until the Sun, Moon and Stars were made the 4th Day, UNLESS you can show us that the first 3 Days were 24 hours in length.

Aman:>>The creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven continues today. It will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to Earth and changes EVERY living creature into vegetarians. Gen 1:30 and Isa 11:7 Amen?

*** Um. no... the third heaven is already created. That is where the seat of God currently is. Paul mentions being caught up to the third heaven. He was not speaking prophetically but in past tense as something that happened. First heaven is the sky, second heaven is the stars and space, third heaven is where the throne is.

Chapter and verse please since I know that you cannot show this Scripturally. Amen?

 

[mmksparbud]

What some people fail to realize is that what God says--is-----immediately unless He says otherwise. God said Let there be light--period. He did NOT say let there be sunlight in a million years--Let there be light--"and there was light"--right then and there. And He divided this light into evening and morning and it was the first day. He said it-His word is the creative force--what He says is---whatever that light was (and there is visible and invisible light, invisible to us, not God)--He created it right then and there as He spoke and He said it was the first day and that is what it is.

 

[BobRyan]

Sinai happens about 2600 years after creation week - and the 7 days of creation week were long done - long completed.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

What kind of days?

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,
...
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice that "God's Sabbath" is man's Sabbath -- the 7 days of man working and resting are the 7 days of God - man resting on "the Sabbath of the Lord" not "the Sabbath of man" --

the point is that it is legal code - the same unit of time --- days. And all 7 days completed in Genesis 1:2-2:4.

Plants created on day 3.
Man created on day 6

And the command in Ex 20 to work the same time period and rest the same time period.

the unit of time for God and man in this example is the same for the "the Sabbath of the Lord your God"


Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,
...
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

False, UNLESS you can show us HOW God rested from ALL of His work in the past. God will NOT rest (cease creating) until His creation is "finished" (brought to perfection) and filled with ALL of the host of Heaven which includes ALL Christians.

Your argument is "with the text"

 

[BobRyan]

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

What kind of days?

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,

Thanks for bringing that one up Bob....I had been thinking about it but just had not put it down yet.

Thanks Jerry -

In Ex 20 8-11 God points out in "legal code" that the events described in Gen 1:2-2:4 are both literal and are equal to man's 7 day week at Sinai. Legal code states that God did it all in 7 days (not parable, not myth, not allegory) and that same legal code demands that mankind observe that same cycle including the "Sabbath of the Lord your God" so no such thing as "sabbath of man - but not Sabbath of the Lord your God" when it comes to that section of legal code.

That is an iron-clad lock down of the unit of time in Gen 1:2-2:4 with the unit of time in Ex 20:8-11

If the text had said "for in 6 months the Lord MADE... and rested the 7th Month" along with "6 months you shall labor .. but the 7th month is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" it would be a 7 month cycle not a 7 day cycle.

If it had said "6 years the LORD MADE..and rested the 7th year" then the 7th year is the Sabbath of the ten commandment legal code.

Same for "6 decades..." or "6 million years... and the 7 millionth year..."

But the text says "six days" for both God's work and the period for man to work - along with the 7th day being the Sabbath also completed in that 7 day creation week.

 

[Aman777]

the unit of time for God and man in this example is the same for the "the Sabbath of the Lord your God"

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,
...
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Your argument is "with the text"

My argument is with the people who do NOT know what Day it is. Today remains the 6th Day because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image which is in Jesus Christ Spiritually. Gen 1:27

The Sabbath Day is the 7th Day which is AFTER Heaven is finished (brought to perfection) and filled with it's "host", Gen 2:1 which includes EVERY Christian who has been born again Spiritually. To commemorate this future Day is NOT the same as living Eternally on the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

This is obvious when you realize that God rests (Ceases) ALL of His work of creating then. So long as it remains the 6th Day, God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. This takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Gen 1:26 and John 14:16

People who teach that the 7th Day is in the past CANNOT explain WHY God rested for a day, then went back to work creating Christians Eternally, and hasn't rested since. In fact, when you ask them WHY God rested, they can never explain. They also CANNOT explain HOW to keep the 7th Day "holy" since no day is holy, when thousands of children starve to death daily.

The reason they believe that the 7th Day has already passed is that they believe the ancient Hebrew Theologians who later called for the crucifixion of Jesus. IF they would search Scripture, they would find that our rest from ALL of our work, and ALL of God's work of Creation, is FUTURE to 2015 as the following verse shows:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

1. They assume that Gen 1:27 is past even though God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. 2Co 5:17
2. They assume that mankind was given dominion over every living creature in the past, including Angels, 1Co 6:3 as Gen 1:28 clearly states
3. They assume that God the Son rested in the beginning even though He was crucified thousands of years later
4. They assume that God the Holy Spirit rested too, I suppose, since the Holy Spirit is also God and He is STILL working today to bring sinners to Christ
5. They cannot explain WHEN in the past EVERY living creature was a vegetarian as Gen 1:30 clearly states
6. They ignore Isaiah 11:1-7 which shows that every creatures change into a vegetarian is AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth
7. They assume that God has already rested (ceased) from ALL of His Creating as Gen 2:2-4 repeats

IOW, they believe by blind faith in ancient men's flawed Theology that God's rest was in the past. If you don't believe me, then please explain WHY the perfect God would rest while His Creation continues. Since God is perfect and sees the end from the beginning, He will NOT say it is very good, until it has been brought to perfection. Gen 1:31 For all these reasons, God's rest from ALL of His work of creating is FUTURE. Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

You misunderstood. You claimed that Genesis 1:28 was speaking of a biological event when it is speaking of a Spiritual event which continues today.

Back that up scripturally.

This is the same statement made of the birds and fish in verse 22.
I also do not find this to mean spirutal because in the same sentence we are talking about subduing the earth. Not just the animals but the earth. This is to populate the earth, we do not spirutally subdue the earth.

So on those basis alone I find your position silly and not scriptural at all. Once again you pick and choose what you want to mean something whenever you want.

Not so, since Adam and Eve were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually long BEFORE Christ died on the Cross 2k years ago. Gen 5:1-2 You don't seem to know that Jesus was there on the 1st Day of Creation.

But none of the old testament saints were created in God's image, nor do the ever say they were made into God's image until after Christ appeared 2000 years ago. All men after Adam and Eve were made in the image of Adam and Eve as Genesis 5 states.

False, since a 24 hour day could NOT be measured until the Sun, Moon and Stars were made the 4th Day, UNLESS you can show us that the first 3 Days were 24 hours in length.

False because unless you can prove that an evening and a morning were different on Day 1 than they were on day 4 the cycle remains the same. You are the one positing something that the Bible does not state. For EVERY DAY in Gen 1 it says there was evening and morning. From day 1 to day 6. Just because there was no sun or moon does not mean the cycle was different. So unless you have proof that evening and morning were different on the first 3 days, then you can only conclude that they were same as the last 3 days because the context used to indicate the passage of time remained the same.


Chapter and verse of heavens?

First heaven in reference to our atmosphere.
Terms birds of the sky, or birds of the heavens. The term used is Shamayim. Gen 2:19,7:3,23, Psalms 8:8.
Eagles of the heaven (Lamentation 4:19)
In reference to where clouds are and rain comes from. Psalm 28:23, Gen 7:11-12, Gen 8:2, Malachi 3:!0, Deuteronomy 11:17, 28:12

Second heaven is where the stars are at. It is the firmament of heaven, the term raqiya is used to help describe it and separate it from shamayim mentioned for the first heaven.
Psalms 19:1, Genesis 1:17, Isaiah 40:22,psalms 19:4-6

Third Heaven is called the heaven of heavens
Deuteronomy 10:14 "Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it."
We see reference to all three types here...the first heaven being the earth and the earths atmosphere, the first heaven mentioned in this verse is the second heaven, and then there is the highest heavens.
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dweel on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built.
Psalm 115:16 The heavens are the heavens of the Lord, but the earth He has given to the sons of men.
Psalm 148:4 Praise Him, highest heavens, and the waters that are above the heavens.

mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:2, 4
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not kinow, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-such a man was caught up to the third heaven....was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, whciha a man is not permitted to speak"

Hebrews 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
We see that Jesus has ascended passing through the heavens. And we see that he is in the highest of heavens and what are we told He has done?
Hebrews 8:1 ...we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.

Should I go on, or is that enough verses to tell you that there are more than one heaven mentioned in the Bible?

 

[brotherjerry]

My argument is with the people who do NOT know what Day it is. Today remains the 6th Day because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image which is in Jesus Christ Spiritually. Gen 1:27

The Sabbath Day is the 7th Day which is AFTER Heaven is finished (brought to perfection) and filled with it's "host", Gen 2:1 which includes EVERY Christian who has been born again Spiritually. To commemorate this future Day is NOT the same as living Eternally on the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

This is obvious when you realize that God rests (Ceases) ALL of His work of creating then. So long as it remains the 6th Day, God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. This takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Gen 1:26 and John 14:16

People who teach that the 7th Day is in the past CANNOT explain WHY God rested for a day, then went back to work creating Christians Eternally, and hasn't rested since. In fact, when you ask them WHY God rested, they can never explain. They also CANNOT explain HOW to keep the 7th Day "holy" since no day is holy, when thousands of children starve to death daily.

The reason they believe that the 7th Day has already passed is that they believe the ancient Hebrew Theologians who later called for the crucifixion of Jesus. IF they would search Scripture, they would find that our rest from ALL of our work, and ALL of God's work of Creation, is FUTURE to 2015 as the following verse shows:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

1. They assume that Gen 1:27 is past even though God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. 2Co 5:17
2. They assume that mankind was given dominion over every living creature in the past, including Angels, 1Co 6:3 as Gen 1:28 clearly states
3. They assume that God the Son rested in the beginning even though He was crucified thousands of years later
4. They assume that God the Holy Spirit rested too, I suppose, since the Holy Spirit is also God and He is STILL working today to bring sinners to Christ
5. They cannot explain WHEN in the past EVERY living creature was a vegetarian as Gen 1:30 clearly states
6. They ignore Isaiah 11:1-7 which shows that every creatures change into a vegetarian is AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth
7. They assume that God has already rested (ceased) from ALL of His Creating as Gen 2:2-4 repeats

IOW, they believe by blind faith in ancient men's flawed Theology that God's rest was in the past. If you don't believe me, then please explain WHY the perfect God would rest while His Creation continues. Since God is perfect and sees the end from the beginning, He will NOT say it is very good, until it has been brought to perfection. Gen 1:31 For all these reasons, God's rest from ALL of His work of creating is FUTURE. Amen?

You make a lot of false assumptions here which is part of your problem. First God ceased all of His universe creating. As I have stated. There was nothing left in the universe to create, even the path to salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus was established. That in no way indicates or means that God sat back kicked up His feet and let the world go off on it's own. That is not what the Bible indicates. So there is your first false assumption.

And you again make a fatal error in trying to claim that what God initially created was not perfect. God said it was good. Death and corruption entered this creation through man. Man brought in corruptible seed and death has been in this world ever since. This world is no longer perfect, it is tainted by sin. Just because man messed it up, does not mean it was not created perfect.

And God did not create Christians after the creation, not until 2000 years later when Christ was born a man. Even the old testament prophets were not made whole again, they were not indwelt with the spirit that man had lost at the fall. When the old testament saints died they went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise), or if they were bad they went to Sheol, also called Hades by the Greeks, which was a different part of the same area...kinda like the smoking and non-smoking section. The story of Lazarus and the rich man show us that the rich man was in Sheol and could see Lazarus and cried out for a drop of water.

Remember Jesus said that none have ascended to heaven except for He who has descended from heaven. So the OT saints have not had their sins paid for yet either, this does not happen until Christ pays that debt. And only then can they be called blameless and be before God.

Gen 1:27 IS past event. All context of the verse is past tense, the verbs are past tense...all of it is past tense. Because the creation of the universe is past tense. Creating new creatures in Christ is not part of the creation of the universe that was dealt with in Gen 1. By the end of Gen 1 everything was perfect, man still had a spirit indwelt with him, God walked with man in the garden...everything was roses. Until they ate of the forbidden fruit...which changed everything.

You seem to want to completely ignore all that changed with the fall, and that is probably mostly because you want to place us in the 6th day, which would be before man fell. So if man has not fallen because that happened after the 6th day, and if you think we are still in the 6th day...then there is no need to ever have crucified Christ because man had not fallen yet. How can you reconcile that with your 6th day age doctrine? If we are still in the 6th day, how can man be fallen since that happened after the 6th day.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Genesis 1:28 was speaking of a biological event when it is speaking of a Spiritual event which continues today.

*** Back that up scripturally.

This is the same statement made of the birds and fish in verse 22.
I also do not find this to mean spirutal because in the same sentence we are talking about subduing the earth. Not just the animals but the earth. This is to populate the earth, we do not spirutally subdue the earth.

Sure, since Gen 1:22 is speaking of "every living creature that moveth" which was created from the water on the FIFTH Day. That is biological. Since Adam was made the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7, that verse is NOT speaking of man's Spiritual Creation which takes place on the present SIXTH Day, and which continues today.

Notice also that Gen 1:28 is speaking of male and female being being given dominion. This is important since Eve was NOT made until the present 6th Day. Gen 2:22

*** So on those basis alone I find your position silly and not scriptural at all. Once again you pick and choose what you want to mean something whenever you want.

False accusation unless you can explain Gen 2:4-7 which shows that Adam was made the THIRD Day and "created in God's Image" on the present 6th Day.

*** Genesis 5states.

Genesis 5 is AFTER Adam fell, was cast from the Garden, and AFTER Cain killed Abel. This means that Adam had to be born again in order to inherit Heaven. Do you think Adam will be in Heaven?

*** Psalms 8:8.
Eagles of the heaven (Lamentation 4:19)
In reference to where clouds are and rain comes from. Psalm 28:23, Gen 7:11-12, Gen 8:2, Malachi 3:!0, Deuteronomy 11:17, 28:12

UnScriptural, UNLESS you can show us Scripturally that clouds and rain are in the 3rd Heaven, which you cannot.

*** Second heaven is where the stars are at. It is the firmament of heaven, the term raqiya is used to help describe it and separate it from shamayim mentioned for the first heaven.
Psalms 19:1, Genesis 1:17, Isaiah 40:22,psalms 19:4-6

Not so, since God called the firmament "Heaven" in Gen 1:8. Then Gen 2:4 shows that other HeavenS were made. That is the beginning of the present 2nd Heaven and the beginning of the 3rd Heaven. Don't you know that Adam's firmament/heaven was totally destroyed in the Flood? Read ll Peter 3:6 which identifies the Scoffers of the last days who will NOT believe that Adam's world/firmament was destroyed.

*** Third Heaven is called the heaven of heavens
Deuteronomy 10:14 "Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it."
We see reference to all three types here...the first heaven being the earth and the earths atmosphere, the first heaven mentioned in this verse is the second heaven, and then there is the highest heavens.
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dweel on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built.
Psalm 115:16 The heavens are the heavens of the Lord, but the earth He has given to the sons of men.
Psalm 148:4 Praise Him, highest heavens, and the waters that are above the heavens.

mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:2, 4
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not kinow, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-such a man was caught up to the third heaven....was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, whciha a man is not permitted to speak"

Do you believe that Paul was taken up into Space? Or was it the THIRD Heaven which is what is left AFTER Adam's Earth was dissolved in the Flood Isa 24:19 and the present 2nd Heaven was burned? ll Peter 3:10 Do you believe Christians will live forever in Space?

*** Hebrews 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
We see that Jesus has ascended passing through the heavens. And we see that he is in the highest of heavens and what are we told He has done?
Hebrews 8:1 ...we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.

Should I go on, or is that enough verses to tell you that there are more than one heaven mentioned in the Bible?

Your view is the SAME as the ancient view of Hebrew Theologians who called for the crucifixion of their own God. Jhn 19:15 Now, it's time for you to explain where Christians will go AFTER our world is BURNED? Amen?

 

[Aman777]

↑
Aman:>>My argument is with the people who do NOT know what Day it is. Today remains the 6th Day because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image which is in Jesus Christ Spiritually. Gen 1:27

The Sabbath Day is the 7th Day which is AFTER Heaven is finished (brought to perfection) and filled with it's "host", Gen 2:1 which includes EVERY Christian who has been born again Spiritually. To commemorate this future Day is NOT the same as living Eternally on the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

This is obvious when you realize that God rests (Ceases) ALL of His work of creating then. So long as it remains the 6th Day, God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. This takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit according to Gen 1:26 and John 14:16

People who teach that the 7th Day is in the past CANNOT explain WHY God rested for a day, then went back to work creating Christians Eternally, and hasn't rested since. In fact, when you ask them WHYGod rested, they can never explain. They also CANNOT explain HOW to keep the 7th Day "holy" since no day is holy, when thousands of children starve to death daily.

The reason they believe that the 7th Day has already passed is that they believe the ancient Hebrew Theologians who later called for the crucifixion of Jesus. IF they would search Scripture, they would find that our rest from ALL of our work, and ALL of God's work of Creation, is FUTURE to 2015 as the following verse shows:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

1. They assume that Gen 1:27 is past even though God is STILL creating New Creatures in Christ. 2Co 5:17
2. They assume that mankind was given dominion over every living creature in the past, including Angels, 1Co 6:3 as Gen 1:28 clearly states
3. They assume that God the Son rested in the beginning even though He was crucified thousands of years later
4. They assume that God the Holy Spirit rested too, I suppose, since the Holy Spirit is also God and He is STILL working today to bring sinners to Christ
5. They cannot explain WHEN in the past EVERY living creature was a vegetarian as Gen 1:30 clearly states
6. They ignore Isaiah 11:1-7 which shows that every creatures change into a vegetarian is AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth
7. They assume that God has already rested (ceased) from ALL of His Creating as Gen 2:2-4 repeats

IOW, they believe by blind faith in ancient men's flawed Theology that God's rest was in the past. If you don't believe me, then please explain WHY the perfect God would rest while His Creation continues. Since God is perfect and sees the end from the beginning, He will NOT say it is very good, until it has been brought to perfection. Gen 1:31 For all these reasons, God's rest from ALL of His work of creating is FUTURE. Amen?

*** You make a lot of false assumptions here which is part of your problem. First God ceased all of His universe creating. As I have stated.

I am STILL waiting for you to show us this Scripturally. Your personal opinion is nothing more than your belief. Unless you can back it up Scripturally, it means little.

*** There was nothing left in the universe to create, even the path to salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus was established. That in no way indicates or means that God sat back kicked up His feet and let the world go off on it's own. That is not what the Bible indicates. So there is your first false assumption.

Not so, since I see NO supporting Scripture for your view. As usual, there is NO Scriptural basis for believing your false accusation.

*** And you again make a fatal error in trying to claim that what God initially created was not perfect. God said it was good.

Correction, since Gen 1:28-31 is Prophecy of future events which will NOT take place until Jesus returns, your view is refuted.

*** Death and corruption entered this creation through man. Man brought in corruptible seed and death has been in this world ever since. This world is no longer perfect, it is tainted by sin. Just because man messed it up, does not mean it was not created perfect.

Then please explain the darkness/death which was upon EVERYthing God created in the beginning. Gen 1:2 I don't think you can. Fool me.

*** And God did not create Christians after the creation, not until 2000 years later when Christ was born a man. Even the old testament prophets were not made whole again, they were not indwelt with the spirit that man had lost at the fall. When the old testament saints died they went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise), or if they were bad they went to Sheol, also called Hades by the Greeks, which was a different part of the same area...kinda like the smoking and non-smoking section. The story of Lazarus and the rich man show us that the rich man was in Sheol and could see Lazarus and cried out for a drop of water.

Then please explain the following:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was NOT first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

According to you, Adam and Eve were made naturally and Spiritually when they were "formed". Should we ignore the above verse in favor of Ancient Hebrew Theologian's view?

*** Remember Jesus said that none have ascended to heaven except for He who has descended from heaven. So the OT saints have not had their sins paid for yet either, this does not happen until Christ pays that debt. And only then can they be called blameless and be before God.

Actually, no one will ascend to Heaven until the Rapture as the following shows:

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

*** Gen 1:27 IS past event. All context of the verse is past tense, the verbs are past tense...all of it is past tense. Because the creation of the universe is past tense.

Not in Hebrew, which is in Hebrew imperfect tense, which means that the event continues. You have confused English tense with Hebrew tense.

*** Creating new creatures in Christ is not part of the creation of the universe that was dealt with in Gen 1.

Since the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation continues, and will NOT be complete until the prophecy of Gen 1:28 is fulfilled, I cannot agree. Isa 11 shows that Gen 1:30 is FUTURE to the present time.

***By the end of Gen 1 everything was perfect, man still had a spirit indwelt with him, God walked with man in the garden...everything was roses. Until they ate of the forbidden fruit...which changed everything.

You seem to want to completely ignore all that changed with the fall, and that is probably mostly because you want to place us in the 6th day, which would be before man fell. So if man has not fallen because that happened after the 6th day, and if you think we are still in the 6th day...then there is no need to ever have crucified Christ because man had not fallen yet. How can you reconcile that with your 6th day age doctrine? If we are still in the 6th day, how can man be fallen since that happened after the 6th day.

The present 6th Day continues and will continue until Jesus returns, gives mankind dominion or rule over every living creature including Angels and changes all creatures into vegetarians as Gen 1:30 and Isa 11:7 shows.

I realize that this view is controversial, but it is impossible to refute Scripturally, but God Bless you for trying. Maybe it will help some to read Genesis for what it actually says instead of following the views of ancient men who did NOT understand the creation story. Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

Aman I am not going to waste any more time.

You called for Scripture to prove my points, I have done that time and time again.
When I do that you claim some other doctrine which you have yet to expand and provide Biblical evidence of. Instead you fall back on supporting your biblical claim by calling on the name of Einstien.

You have picked and choosen what verses you want to believe mean what you think they do and ignore all other verses that claim otherwise. Case in point your interpreation of a day...in one verse it means 24 hours, in the next verse it means an age. That is NOT how you interpret the Bible, I am sorry but that is the simple truth.

If you won't listen and continue to ignore what the Bible says then that is on you. I will pray for you and that God will open your eyes to the truth that is clearly expressed in the Bible. I am sure you will claim you already know it, and that is fine. I am sure when we stand before the Creator we will all hang our heads low on doctrines we thought we had right.

Until that time I bid you good day and God bless.

 

[mmksparbud]

You seem to want to completely ignore all that changed with the fall, and that is probably mostly because you want to place us in the 6th day, which would be before man fell. So if man has not fallen because that happened after the 6th day, and if you think we are still in the 6th day...then there is no need to ever have crucified Christ because man had not fallen yet. How can you reconcile that with your 6th day age doctrine? If we are still in the 6th day, how can man be fallen since that happened after the 6th day.

I haven't seen where you did your usual gymnastic, verse juggling to answer this one. Did I miss it??

 

[brotherjerry]

I haven't seen where you did your usual gymnastic, verse juggling to answer this one. Did I miss it??

Were you referring to me juggling verses? If so can you please elaborate on what juggling I did?

 

[mmksparbud]

Were you referring to me juggling verses? If so can you please elaborate on what juggling I did?

Oooooppss!! I meant that for Aman777---I forgot to address it to that poster---sorry---I meant for Aman to answer your post.

 

[brotherjerry]

Whew....I was like "WAAAAAT?!" LOL

 

[mmksparbud]

Whew....I was like "WAAAAAT?!" LOL

I asked the same question on the thread "Adam was formed on day 3" and asked Aman to answer it on either this thread or that one--waiting. If this is the garden of Eden and we have not fallen yet--can you imagine the horrors that await aftern our fall??

 

[Aman777]

brotherjerry said: ↑
You seem to want to completely ignore all that changed with the fall, and that is probably mostly because you want to place us in the 6th day, which would be before man fell. So if man has not fallen because that happened after the 6th day, and if you think we are still in the 6th day...then there is no need to ever have crucified Christ because man had not fallen yet. How can you reconcile that with your 6th day age doctrine? If we are still in the 6th day, how can man be fallen since that happened after the 6th day.

I haven't seen where you did your usual gymnastic, verse juggling to answer this one. Did I miss it??

I must have missed this one earlier. Since we live today on the present 6th Day, most people could have figured out that a Day (Heb-yowm) is more than 24 hours as some falsely teach. Each of God's Days/Ages is Billions of years long and the beginning of the present 6th Day was when Jesus made the creatures from the land and Adam named them. Gen 2:19 The end of the present 6th Day will be when DEATH is destroyed.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Since people still die every day, this event will NOT take place until AFTER Jesus returns at the end of the present 6th Age. Each of God's Days is Billions of years in length, in man's time, and AFTER death is destroyed, God's work will be finished or brought to perfection, as the following verse clearly shows.

Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and ALL the host of them.

Some people falsely teach that this event has already taken place BUT they cannot explain the end of the verse which clearly shows that ALL of the host of Heaven is present in Heaven at this time. This is important since the last sinner to be saved is among the host of Heaven. The next two verses show that God's rest from ALL of His creating will end at this time because ALL of God's work of creating is finally finished or brought to perfection.

God will NOT rest until His Creation is made perfect since He would NOT be God if He rested (Heb-Ceased) from ALL of His work of creating BEFORE it was brought to perfection. IF you don't agree then show us WHEN death was destroyed and ALL of the host of Heaven was safely in Heaven, in the past. I know you cannot but please try so that everyone will come to a better understanding of the first 34 verses of Scripture which shows the ENTIRE History of God's 7 Days. Amen?

 

[mmksparbud]

This thread has been completely derailed---one thread on this topic is plenty---this should be continued only on the "Adam was formed on the 3rd day" thread.

 

[Aman777]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

God did not lie but He did hide His Truth from ancient people in order that they could be saved ONLY by Faith in Him. Heb 11:6

 

[Meowzltov]

God did not lie but He did hide His Truth from ancient people in order that they could be saved ONLY by Faith in Him. Heb 11:6

My question of course is only hypothetical. God of course is not a liar. The point of the OP is that God would not create a world in which he deliberately placed evidence to fool us into thinking the world was ancient when in fact it was young or that life evolved when it did not. And the evidence IS there.