Where is a "6000 year old earth" found in scripture?

[ewq1938]

You did manage to find the one scripture where men thought they had seen God.

All of them show the Father as a visible, physical being.

But you failed to explain the many clear scriptures explaining that the Father is invisible.

He is not invisible since people have seen him.

Remember your misunderstanding?
ewq1938 said: ↑ "The Father is NEVER depicted as a body less spirit...not a single time." First, you need to separately refute each passage below.

Post the actual verses in tact and I will comment.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Those are all covered by metaphor and "visions of God."
The scriptures I quoted are not.

If you have two passages, one says "no one can see God and Live"
then a second passage "they saw God"

then we must assume the first to be correct because it cannot be
converted to "vision" or metaphor. The second can be reinterpreted.

That't what I was saying, about my list.

If it says "God is invisible" that passage cannot be converted to a metaphor.
Other "sightings of God" can be counted as "reveals" not actual sightings.

Exo 33:20

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Genesis 32: 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man[an Ish[ with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. 32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

[B}Jacob. wrestled with YHWH, in Genesis 32, and named the place "face of God". He did not wrestle with a metaphor. He did not wrestle with the Person of YHWH the Spirit, but the Person of YHWH the Word.]/B]

3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; 5 Even YHWH Elohim of hosts; YHWH is his memorial.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Exo 33:20

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Genesis 32: 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man[an Ish[ with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. 32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

[B}Jacob. wrestled with YHWH, in Genesis 32, and named the place "face of God". He did not wrestle with a metaphor. He did not wrestle with the Person of YHWH the Spirit, but the Person of YHWH the Word.]/B]

3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; 5 Even YHWH Elohim of hosts; YHWH is his memorial.

Ezekiel 1: 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies. 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of [an Adam] a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Chariots of the LORD are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands.
Psa 68:17

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord/YHWH is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
Psa 68:4

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name YAH, and rejoice before him.

They saw the God of Israel.
Exodus 24:1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off. 2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.
3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. 6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God. 14 And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them. 15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. 16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. 17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.[/B]

 

[joshua 1 9]

This forum is general Theo-logy =God's Word.
There is no such an entity named "science", anywhere, and the Word states that the sun itself was made on day 4 of creation week..
There are very blasphemous men who defy God, however, and try to pretend they know more than He, though they are just a vapor , and every breath they draw in and expel out has the manufacturer's name stamped on it, "YH -WH".
Silly men, deceiving and being deceived, pretending there is such a thing as an entity called "science" that has the power to judge God's Word!

The firmament of His powers was stretched out from this globe of waters on day 2 of creation week, between the divided in two waters of creation on this globe. Then, and only then, did the Creator name the firmament, "Two Waters" =Shamayim.
There are stories in His Firmament of Powers -the third one is where Paradise is, that Adam got cast down from when he fell, and was divorced from the Spirit of Glory and forbidden from ever entering again, in the irrevocably defiled Adam flesh.
That is what the Word of God teaches us.

The word Sun is not used anywhere in Genesis ch 1. There is a reference to "two great lights". Of course we know that the moon does not produce light, it reflects light from the Sun.

 

[Hoghead1]

Well, that is all very nice and interesting, Joshua19. However, the real question here is this: How do we know you are anything but one of these blasphemous men, false prophet yourself? Why should believe you on anything you have to say about the Bible?

 

[ThereisonlyoneGod]

Who do you think invented science? God did. The only reason science people and Gods way are so mixed up is because people are mixing it up.
Man is always changing what they called "proof". every few years they wrevise their findings and come up with new ideas. Like the atom, they said that was the smallest thing, now they are finding much smaller paricles. Its because scientists and regular people don't understand God and how He works.
for instance, think about this.
God caused eth ha adam to fall asleep and took the "curve" out of adam and made woman. Well, lets discuss that. Ist adam was anesthetized, or put to sleep and a curve was taken out of his body to make eve. Today we can understand that it was the "helix curve" from adams dna that was taken out to make EVE.

they had no way of understanding this until now. When man is doubting God, you can be sure it is man that is wrong.

humbly...allan

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The word Sun is not used anywhere in Genesis ch 1. There is a reference to "two great lights". Of course we know that the moon does not produce light, it reflects light from the Sun.

The word Sun is not used anywhere in Genesis ch 1. There is a reference to "two great lights". Of course we know that the moon does not produce light, it reflects light from the Sun.

God said "let there be Mennorahs in the expanse of the heavens =stars.
Two great Mennorahs =the sun and the moon.
The Mennorahs are not the "Light" that God called "to be" out of the darkness on day 1, which He then divided from the darkness and called "day"; but the Mennorahs govern the light.
The sun does not make light, but receives the light via the electric stars, which pour it into the sun like the oil into the Mennorah in the temple. The sun then refracts that light back out to the creation. The moon receives her light from the sun's refracted light, in definite measures, as the Geocentric calendar account in the Book of Enoch states.

 

[joshua 1 9]

God said "let there be Mennorahs in the expanse of the heavens =stars.
Two great Mennorahs =the sun and the moon.
The Mennorahs are not the "Light" that God called "to be" out of the darkness on day 1, which He then divided from the darkness and called "day"; but the Mennorahs govern the light.
The sun does not make light, but receives the light via the electric stars, which pour it into the sun like the oil into the Mennorah in the temple. The sun then refracts that light back out to the creation. The moon receives her light from the sun's refracted light, in definite measures, as the Geocentric calendar account in the Book of Enoch states.

Yes the ma'owr is plural feminine. Just like you have Adam and Eve and God. You have to have male and female. In Psalm 74:16 "The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun". Exo 35:14 The candlestick also for the light, H3974 and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light, H3974. So the olive produces oil for the light. God did not create the Sun on day four. He created the light from the Sun on day four. Actually in science we know that this was the great oxygen event. All the plants from day three had produced enough oxygen so that on day five we have the living creatures. Only this required a change in the atmosphere. We see this in Adam as the atom. Negitive, positive and neutral. Male, female and God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is always a trinity of three to create the right balance.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes the ma'owr is plural feminine. Just like you have Adam and Eve and God. You have to have male and female. In Psalm 74:16 "The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun". Exo 35:14 The candlestick also for the light, H3974 and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light, H3974. So the olive produces oil for the light. God did not create the Sun on day four. He created the light from the Sun on day four. Actually in science we know that this was the great oxygen event. All the plants from day three had produced enough oxygen so that on day five we have the living creatures. Only this required a change in the atmosphere. We see this in Adam as the atom. Negitive, positive and neutral. Male, female and God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is always a trinity of three to create the right balance.

Complete nonsense.
God knows what He created and when, and He tells us so in Genesis 1.
The light called into being on day 1 feeds the heavenly Menorrahs of His creation.
The heavenly menorrahs then govern the light.

It is an electric universe, and the "Firmament of His powers" is just that: expanse of His "powers". The forces that run the creation are His "powers", and the lights are called "menorrahs".
The sun itself is built of "cut [diamond] crystals and pillars of fire [angels]. Enoch told us what the temple was built of, in his book of the watchers, chapter 14,15.
John, in Revelation, sees the same thing in the crystal "sea", like glass, with fire.
Enoch saw the temple in heaven, which is created for God the Word to sit upon the throne therein, and from which He watches man on earth, and they are like "grasshoppers in His sight".
John's visit to the temple in heaven corroborates Enoch's.


In this creation, there are planets with oceans of diamonds and floating diamond icebergs, so says your beloved "science", but in the Word of God, He made His sun on day 4, with the other mennorahs, and in His created sun, He set His temple, as His Word states in the original, in what is now Psalm 19, but 18 in the Douay Rheims English; the Latin Vulgate; the original Greek Septuagint. All of those got that from the original Hebrew.

His sun is made of crystal that is cut [Enoch chapters 14,15], and the refracting powers of that huge light in the heavens governs/rules the light of His creation by day. It gives its refracted light to the moon in definite measures to rule by night.
In God's creation, we see a temple set in the sun, and that temple is where His throne is set, upon which He sits, "riding the heavens by His name YAH!", in the circle of the heavens.

Since the heavens were stretched out from the globe of waters on day 2 of creation week, the light was stretched out with them. Light of creation is governed by the created menorrahs, but is not the menorrahs.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Enoch went into the temple set in heaven, and so did John.
in Enoch 14, he states this about that temple:

http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm

"Come Up Here!

8And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 9And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. 10And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor made of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. 11Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was clear as water. 12A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. 13And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. 14And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face.
The Vision of the Great Glory

15And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. 16And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. 17And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 18And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. 19And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 20And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. 21None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. 22The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him, yet He needed no counsellor. 23And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

24And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: "Come hither, Enoch, and hear my word."

25And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards."

 

[SkyWriting]

Who do you think invented science? God did.

God doesn't have that problem. He already knows.

 

[SkyWriting]

They had no way of understanding this until now.

That's an ego thing. Every generation says this and each person born thinks they know more than the last.
Kids say this as they grow up and old people say it as they grow old.

 

[SkyWriting]

Exo 33:20
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Genesis 32: 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man[an Ish[ with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. 32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.
[B}Jacob. wrestled with YHWH, in Genesis 32, and named the place "face of God". He did not wrestle with a metaphor. He did not wrestle with the Person of YHWH the Spirit, but the Person of YHWH the Word.]/B]3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; 5 Even YHWH Elohim of hosts; YHWH is his memorial.

You must first rebuke each of these, before you can imagine God with a physical body.


Romans 1:20
Colossians 1:15
John 1:18
1 Timothy 1:17
Hebrews 11:27
Deuteronomy 4:12
John 5:37
John 4:24
Exodus 33:20
1 Timothy 6:16
Matthew 16:17
1 John 3:2
Hebrews 11:1-3
Romans 8:24-25
2 Corinthians 5:7

 

[SkyWriting]

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Yes that happened. He named a place. But that doesn't mean he did actually see God.
You can't trust everything men say as if they are perfect.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son,
who is himself God and is in closest relationship with
the Father, has made him known.

 

[ewq1938]

The word Sun is not used anywhere in Genesis ch 1.

Argument from silence fallacy.

There is a reference to "two great lights". Of course we know that the moon does not produce light, it reflects light from the Sun.

It is not required that the moon produce it's own light to be called a great light.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes that happened. He named a place. But that doesn't mean he did actually see God.
You can't trust everything men say as if they are perfect.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son,
who is himself God and is in closest relationship with
the Father, has made him known.

That is about fully comprehending God, not "seeing" God.

Many have seen God the Father.


Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".


"a spirit hath not flesh and bones" and they don't have a face, and a hand, and "back parts", but the Father does.


Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


"a spirit hath not flesh and bones" and they don't have a visible body with feet, but the Father does.

Gill:

and there was under his feet; which shows that there was a visible form

Clarke:

The seventy elders, who were representatives of the whole congregation, were chosen to witness the manifestation of God

Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Joh 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
Joh 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.


Jesus said to the Jews that they have never heard the voice of the Father. Does that mean the Father has no voice? No. The Jews simply had never heard the Father's voice.

Jesus said to the Jews that they have never seen the shape of the Father. Does that mean the Father has no shape? No. The Jews simply had never seen the Father's shape.

This proves that the Father does in fact have a voice and a shape which is testified in many scriptures as truth.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is about fully comprehending God, not "seeing" God.

Many have seen God the Father.


Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".


"a spirit hath not flesh and bones" and they don't have a face, and a hand, and "back parts", but the Father does.


Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


"a spirit hath not flesh and bones" and they don't have a visible body with feet, but the Father does.

Gill:



Clarke:



Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Joh 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
Joh 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.


Jesus said to the Jews that they have never heard the voice of the Father. Does that mean the Father has no voice? No. The Jews simply had never heard the Father's voice.

Jesus said to the Jews that they have never seen the shape of the Father. Does that mean the Father has no shape? No. The Jews simply had never seen the Father's shape.

This proves that the Father does in fact have a voice and a shape which is testified in many scriptures as truth.

I said, first you must rebuke each invisible reference
which you claim don't exist, before you get to use
any "visible" references, which today's blind people
use just the same as us sighted people use.

Blind people say "I see" or "I saw" just like anyone
else does.

That's why what Jesus says, takes precedence.
His words have no perception errors.

37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has borne witness of Me.
You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form” (John 5:37).

Because:

24 "God is Spirit..."

 

[ewq1938]

37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has borne witness of Me.
You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form” (John 5:37).

Because:

24 "God is Spirit..."

Nope, many have seen his form. See above.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Remember, also, that Ezekiel SAW him in chapter 1. He had the "appearance/likeness of "Adam", states the Hebrew, which corroborates with Genesis 1:26-28 that states God made Adam in His own "Image", which word in Hebrew is "tselem".

Also, Jesus said the Son of Man sits on the throne in heaven [the Father's throne], even while He, the Son of Man come in new creation flesh, is come down to earth in that flesh body..
John 3: 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven [to sit on the created throne], but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

He is come out from the Father who sits on the throne prepared in heaven, set in the sun, as His Word states in what is Psalm 19 in KJV, but 18 in Douay Rheims. The original states "He hath set His temple/dwelling place, in the sun", and this is corroborated by many other passages.
There is a throne in heaven. One sits on it in a form that has eyes, feet, hands, and so on. He is God the Word who is the Father who is manifest in heaven in that form/image, but since the great divorce from Adam, He is not available for entering into the presence of by any mortal flesh. He is the Great Glory, and in His image [form] Adam was made.
YHWH is Spirit, and in that LIFE/BREATH [which is what YHWH means] there are three Persons: the Spirit, the Word, and the Son.

The Son is come as the Word in flesh of human being creation. Before He was come in flesh, no man had seen Him, but He always existed in the Father in secret, in heaven, and always was to come, for our glory. Enoch saw Him and Paul read that in Enoch, and wrote, in the original, this -in 1 Cor 2:
1Co 2:7 literally
But we speak/preach wisdom God in mystery, hidden which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Jesus, God the Son, is come as our Kinsman to bring us to the Father, in Him. He is the Beloved Son and the Firstborn of all creation, who has ransomed all that Adam, former human being son of God [Luke 3:38], sold into death and corruption when he was cast down from Paradise in the third heaven as an irrevocably defiled, unclean thing.

John 3: 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven [to sit on the created throne], but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

There is One sitting on the throne in heaven and One walking the earth in flesh. They are both the Son of Man: One is the Living Spirit come out from the Father in heaven at the incarnation, when He put on the prepared garment of human being New Man flesh creation like a garment [Isaiah 59], to be our Kinsman, which garment the Son of God/God, in flesh, will wear for all eternity as our Firstborn and second Man and our Everlasting Father [Isaiah 9], which pertains to His being the Firstborn human being Son of God and the Father of all who call on His name for salvation.
He returns to do vengeance on earth in that garment that He is wearing, in which garment He was baptized in death in, for our Salvation, and rose again, without sin, and is coming to reign over His kingdom in.


This was what Enoch saw and heard in heaven, when He saw the God of Glory on the throne in heaven as "God the Word", in whom was the Hidden Son who was to come out of Him as the Holy One, when YHWH "prepared the body" for His donning in the womb of the virgin, to be clothed with that body built in the womb, brand new, and not of the Adam spirit or flesh, but "a New thing in the earth".
Jer 31:22
How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man/Gebor/Mighty One].


He is the Holy "Seed of the Woman" of Genesis 3:15. The Woman is Zion of the Spirit, above, personified from Genesis 3 to Revelation as a "Woman". She is the "Mother; Church; City, Sister; brother, "Wife", of all who are adopted into the One Living Spirit of the One New Man; and who then, as holy sons of God; "Build up Zion, for the Glory" -to indwell, as the Temple "not made with hands" and to "Plant the heavens". This is what Adam was created to do, as a son of God of the human being kind.
Haggai 2 shows the defilement of the first "building stone" of the temple not made with hands, and the reason for the "laying of the Foundation Stone" of the second "Man". The purpose for making the human being son of God is to "Plant the Heavens" by the "building stones built on the Foundation of the Firstborn Son", for the Glory to indwell.

Now the Foundation Stone of the Second Creation Human Being flesh man is "building up Zion" for the Glory, and building it up on Himself, as Firstborn Son and and Zion is no longer a "Barren Widow": She is "married to the Kinsman/Redeemer", which is what the Living Oracles teach us about, and HE is "building up Zion for the Glory" with the redeemed/ransomed, adopted, human being sons cleansed by His blood, and adopting them out of the Adam seed and clothes/garments them in New Man garments and gives them a New Name -"Israel".

Isaiah 49: the Son of God come in flesh is named Israel. Adam is dead. We are dead in Adam and need cleansing and adoption into the Living Spirit/Christ, who will cloth us brand new in the regeneration of our flesh, and "plant the heavens" by the building stones for glory.



Rev 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Isa 51:16
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.


Adam was created as a holy son of God with full access to the Father in heaven, in the Garden of Eden, which is in the third story of the outstretched heavens -stretched out from the globe of water, between the divided in two waters, on day 2. Adam fellowshipped daily with the Person of God the Word -The Father.
2Co 12:2-4
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven...
How that he was caught up into paradise.


Adam was created to be a living temple for the Glory of the "Unseen Spirit" to indwell, and be manifested in and to "Plant the heavens". Adam is dead, but the Redeemer is come and the plan of God does on.
Luke 3:38; Malachi 2:15: Adam was made male and female to bring forth holy sons/seed of God and by them to build the Temple in heaven, "not made with hands" for the Glory to indwell.

When Adam died, the "Woman" -Zion of the Spirit- became a "barren Widow", and no sons to "build up Zion were born unto Her, and the Father of Glory did not fellowship with Adam in his uncleanness, but divorced Him [the Hebrew word for "drove out", in Genesis 3 is "to divorce/cut off"]. But God the Spirit always worked below, on earth, to bring the lost souls back into relationship with the Father of Glory and establish them with free access in Paradise in the third heaven: but no redeemed soul could enter into paradise in heaven until the Atonement was finished, but at death of the corrupt flesh, they went to their place in Sheol below [as Enoch taught in the revelations of all things that he was shown, and as Jesus corroborated in Luke 16].

Jesus said no man ascended, but the context is to sit on the throne, but the Son of Man is on the throne in heaven and simultaneously, the Son of Man is in human being flesh: both Persons have forms. One is in human flesh. Both are YHWH, and the third Person is the Holy Spirit whom no one can see, but He is manifested in the Father of Glory, on the throne in heaven, and in the Son who is come in flesh and who was hidden in the Father until the incarnation. He always was to come.