Logical Problems with Calvinism

[nobdysfool]

I am not saying that the OT Scriptures did not provide truth for it's time or that they cannot be used to illuminate the truth of those Scriptures in the New Testament. However, the Old Testament did not remain after Jesus died upon the cross, though. God's entire plan of salvation was not revealed in the Old but it was revealed by the New. The Temple veil has been torn and we are now under a New Covenant. Ultimate Truth came by Jesus Christ.
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The Old Covenant was superseded by the New Covenant, but we still refer to the OT because it has relevance. Otherwise, cut the OT out of your bible, and it will be much thinner, much like your false theology.

 

[nobdysfool]

Not true. God told Cain that he had the capacity to do either good or evil. God told the Israelites that He set before them life and death and He desired for them to choose life. Jesus says, "Come to me." The Bride and the Spirit in Revelation tell us to, "Come drink of the water of life freely." This does not sound like the words of a God who places people into some kind of forced regeneration so as to believe.
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STOP DIGGING, Jason!

Just stop!

.

 

[sdowney717]

Not true. God told Cain that he had the capacity to do either good or evil. God told the Israelites that He set before them life and death and He desired for them to choose life. Jesus says, "Come to me." The Bride and the Spirit in Revelation tell us to, "Come drink of the water of life freely." This does not sound like the words of a God who places people into some kind of forced regeneration so as to believe.


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Matthew 18
2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said,“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Unless you turn around (repent) you can not enter the kingdom.

Repentance is a gift that must be granted by God that they repent. And if God grants repentance to an person, then they will know the truth and be saved.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
2 Timothy 2:25
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

Acts 5:30-31
"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

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Did it ever occur to you that someone claiming to know God doesn't mean they DO know Him? And that such are not truly saved? If they aren't truly saved, they cannot lose something they never had, and trying to lump them in with true believers is perversion of the text, and drawing a false conclusion. You claim to be preaching the Good news, but under the surface, you secretly believe that most people are liars, and not truly saved (except for you, of course). When you attempt to explain yourself, that Good news becomes worthless, because in your mind, most people aren't saved unless they meet your definition, and do the actions you deem necessary to become and remain saved.

How many times have you hinted that me, or Marvin, or FG2, or Gill, or any one of a a number of us posting here, are not truly saved, because we don't agree with you?

You continually refer to people who believe they can sin and get away with it. Praytell, who are these people, because it certainly isn't anyone I see posting here. You insult us with your straw man, and keep trying to set it on fire, but you can't, because it is a straw man, and not reality. You're trying to justify your false doctrines with a false picture of those who disagree with your faulty interpretation of scripture, and then resist any attempt to by others point out the inconsistencies, and the outright false interpretations.

Given your poor handling of the scriptures, and their meaning, you have no place trying to teach anyone anything.

​

This is not first rodeo discussion on this topic. I have been discussng it for several years. So yes, I am aware that not all those who claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ are not actually genuine. However, that does not negate the truth of the Scriptures that talk about how believers can fall away from the faith after having been saved.

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18).

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19-20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


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[Bible Highlighter]

STOP DIGGING, Jason!

Just stop!

.

I will not stop proclaiming the truth of God's Word. I would rather die than stop.

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[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 18
2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said,“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Unless you turn around (repent) you can not enter the kingdom.

Repentance is a gift that must be granted by God that they repent. And if God grants repentance to an person, then they will know the truth and be saved.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
2 Timothy 2:25
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

Acts 5:30-31
"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

Why tell them to about conversion if it is something that is out of their control? That doesn't make any sense.


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[nobdysfool]

I will not stop proclaiming the truth of God's Word. I would rather die than stop.

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the problem here is that you are not proclaiming the Truth, but a false doctrine. You're digging yourself a hole, and it keeps getting deeper.

 

[nobdysfool]

This is not first rodeo discussion on this topic. I have been discussng it for several years. So yes, I am aware that not all those who claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ are not actually genuine. However, that does not negate the truth of the Scriptures that talk about how believers can fall away from the faith after having been saved.

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18).

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19-20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).
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Some of those aren't even real people, but examples in parables. Others, are spoken of as examples, and you do not know the end of their lives, whether they later got right with God. You're reaching, stretching trying to find anything you can to bolster you false doctrines, because you are so convinced that retaining and maintaining salvation is totally up to us. You don't recognize God as Sovereign over your salvation. You argue against His ways, and His right to do as seems good to HIM, without any input from you.

Case in point: King Saul. You claim he is in hell, but Samuel himself said Saul would be with him, in paradise. Samuel certainly wasn't in the place of torment.

You don't seem to understand that God sometimes take people out of this life in order to preserve them from loss of salvation.

 

[sdowney717]

Why tell them to about conversion if it is something that is out of their control? That doesn't make any sense.


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It is more in their control after they are regenerated - born again.
John 6
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

To be granted to come is an enabling to come to Christ in belief and that gift comes from God, whatever you want to call this, re-generation, born-again, renewed in your mind by the Holy Spirit, made alive, repentance, these are all gifts. All those who have been granted to come to Christ, do come to Christ. BECAUSE those granted to know them are taught by the LORD spiritual truths. and then they make the 'free will' choice to believe. God primes the pump, he frees them from the blindness of their minds placed there by Satan. Those who are perishing, their minds are blinded by Satan. You are not a free agent, unless Christ makes you free.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’
Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

 

[Marvin Knox]

But again, the Bible talks about how seals can be broken elsewhere. So this does not prove your case. Nowhere does the verse say that it is an unbreakable seal. That is something you are adding to the text, my friend. The Bible is very clear on the topic of believers falling away....

Circumcision is a seal done by man. Men can break their word. Therefore the seal of circumcision can be undone by man.

Not all who had the mark of circumcision were saved in Israel.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is done by God. God cannot break His Word. He has given us who believe His Word on the matter. He has placed His seal in us in the form of the Holy Spirit. It cannot and will not be broken by any mere man.

All with the mark of the Holy Spirit are saved and possess eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

That's the whole point of the passage concerning the sealing by the Holy Spirit. (Duhh!)

Your views concerning salvation are all from an earthly perspective.

My view of salvation is from the lofty viewpoint of the throne of God where I am seated and ruling in the Kingdom of God with Christ.

From where you are - it doesn't surprise me one bit that you would see salvation as only a temporary condition.

Narrow is the way that leads to life and few there are who find it.

You need to place your trust in Jesus Christ and His work on the behalf of men for your only hope of salvation. Until you do you are under a curse.

Cursed is everyone who depends on keeping the law for their salvation.

It's never too late for any person, including you, to receive Christ and place their hope in Him.

Our hoping that you will perhaps do so is the only reason that people are spending so much time with you here.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Suicide is a sin that leads to hell.

#1. "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Corinthians 3:17).

#2. John says, no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). Suicide is self murder.

#3. Scripture says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." (1 John 1:9). How can you confess of your sins if you are dead? Does not 1 John 1:9 say we are forgiven of sin if we confess our sin? In fact, Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

So we can conclude that Saul was not saved because he committed suicide and stayed dead. ...

As regrettable as the emotional condition of a man who commits suicide may be ---no where does it say that suicide is a sin that leads inevitably to Hell.

Don't bother re-posting the scriptures you have been using. They don't hold up.

 

[GillDouglas]

As regrettable as the emotional condition of a man who commits suicide may be ---no where does it say that suicide is a sin that leads inevitably to Hell.

Don't bother re-posting the scriptures you have been using. They don't hold up.

Because no one can say for certain the condition of a man's heart and his relationship with Christ, we cannot determine for sure his destination upon death regardless of how he dies.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I don't believe in regeneration before faith and salvation either.

I know that.

But my post was directed to a man who said that holding such a belief was the same as denying that salvation comes through faith.

It was simply him saying that Calvinists deny justification through faith.

No Calvinist denies justification through faith.

He was making up something and saying that it was what Calvinists believe.

It was him creating a doctrine out of thin air - saying that Calvinists believe that doctrine - and then refuting what he himself had made up.

I called him on it.

My post was not to teach that regeneration before faith is the truth - although it may very well be.

That's been debated here prior to this as I remember.

 

[Marvin Knox]

.................. God does not condone evil and that He is a good God who is incapable of allowing any kind of injustice to take place (No matter who commits it - For God is not a respecter of persons). ....

You do know, don't you, that God allowed the crucifixion of His own righteous, holy and innocent Son - at the hands of evil men?

Perhaps your missing the fact that God allowed that "kind of injustice to take place" is the root of your not understanding the gospel correctly.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Wow Marvin, surely you realize you refer quite often to the words of Jesus for your doctrines. It doesn't seem to matter they were under the old covenant; maybe one picks and chooses which words of Jesus they want to believe.

How many times have you gone to the old covenant and pulled out passages for your doctrines?

As I mentioned above, you most definitely go back to the old covenant for your doctrines, including the words of Jesus. Does this mean you have denied the Lord?

It is as you say. I refer to the O.T. all the time. I refer to the Words of Jesus all the time as well.

The difference between the two of us both referring to the O.T. is that you take the things you find in the O.T. and then add them to the work of Christ as a means of salvation in the basic sense.

You have fallen from grace - you who are trying to be justified through the law.

Was the law, under the old covenant abolished with Jesus, or, was it written upon our hearts?

The latter.

Do you not believe we inherit eternal life the way Jesus says? I do!

Yes I do.

Do you believe that the entire N.T. are the Words of Jesus? If you did you would not hold to salvation by keeping the law.

If you have been taught that a man should love God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength, what keeps you from doing it?

Sin - living in me - the same as it was for Paul.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you see 'in a different' light. The word of God is THE Light, which is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our paths. The word of God includes any, and all words which proceeded from Jesus, Who is the Light Itself.

So, I ask, with what different light do see things?

I see the light coming from all of the writings of the Spirit of Christ that we have in the N.T.

You pick and choose.

Therein lies the difference between your gospel and mine.

But you admitted in an earlier post, that you didn't obey Jesus' words, for example, you have never loved God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and you have never loved your neighbor as yourself. What are the implications for that? By the way, these truthful words of Jesus were under the old covenant.

The difference between is that I admit my sin and you do not.

You say that you keep the whole law (summed up in those two commandments). On that you place your hope of salvation.

The difference between the two ways we see those truthful Words of Jesus are staggering.

Mine leads me to place all of my hope in the work of Christ for my salvation.

Yours leads you to believe that your keeping of God's law will be your way to salvation.

You are in for a rude awakening when you meet Him face to face IMO.

Hey, if it looks like a Calvinist, sounds like a Calvinists, and believes like a Calvinist, then...

You may be a reformed Calvinist, but a Calvinist nonetheless.

Besides, I have yet to see any Calvinist on this forum who disagrees with you.

Any similarities between my beliefs and those of full blown Calvinists lie in the areas where we hold to the same proper interpretation of scripture. There are many such areas.

If you have never seen areas where full on Calvinists and I differ - you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As regrettable as the emotional condition of a man who commits suicide may be ---no where does it say that suicide is a sin that leads inevitably to Hell.

Don't bother re-posting the scriptures you have been using. They don't hold up.

Well, a person shouldn't need a Bible to tell them that sucidie is a sin that will lead them straight to hell. But never the less the Bible does confirm such a truth whether you like it or not. But the verses I posted are unmistakable. Only if a person choosees not to see it, I imagine that such a truth will allude them.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You do know, don't you, that God allowed the crucifixion of His own righteous, holy and innocent Son - at the hands of evil men?

Perhaps your missing the fact that God allowed that "kind of injustice to take place" is the root of your not understanding the gospel correctly.

If that is what you see when you look at what Christ has done for us, then I feel sorry for you. Jesus Christ willingly laid down His own life for the sheep. For God so LOVED the world. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." (John 15:13).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Because no one can say for certain the condition of a man's heart and his relationship with Christ, we cannot determine for sure his destination upon death regardless of how he dies.

The Bible is clear. God will destroy that person who destroys the temple. No murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Suicide is self murder. Judas and Saul both committed suicide and were clearly not saved according to the Scriptures.


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[EmSw]

It is as you say. I refer to the O.T. all the time. I refer to the Words of Jesus all the time as well.

The difference between the two of us both referring to the O.T. is that you take the things you find in the O.T. and then add them to the work of Christ as a means of salvation in the basic sense.

Every word of the OT is Jesus Himself.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The OT and the NT are one; they are the same Word. You are wanting to separate them.

You have fallen from grace - you who are trying to be justified through the law.

I've not fallen from grace; even you don't believe one saved can fall from grace. Come on Marvin, you are slipping from your doctrines.

Do you believe that the entire N.T. are the Words of Jesus? If you did you would not hold to salvation by keeping the law.

If you believe the NT, you would believe the words of Jesus, which tells us how to inherit eternal life. I have already given this to you.

Sin - living in me - the same as it was for Paul.

So, living in sin keeps you from keeping His commandments. John says some pretty harsh things about not keeping His commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I see you have two choices, keeping His commandments and have the truth in you, or as John says, not keep His commandments and present yourself a liar.

Here what Paul says about living in sin -

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

What excuse do you have for living in sin when God forbids it? Why continue in sin if you are freed from sin? Why are you letting sin reign in your mortal body to obey its lusts?

I see the light coming from all of the writings of the Spirit of Christ that we have in the N.T.

But the OT says this -

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalm 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Is there not light in the OT writings?

You say that you keep the whole law (summed up in those two commandments). On that you place your hope of salvation.

The difference between the two ways we see those truthful Words of Jesus are staggering.

What's a better place to have your hope than in the very words of Jesus?

Mine leads me to place all of my hope in the work of Christ for my salvation.

Yours leads you to believe that your keeping of God's law will be your way to salvation.

I will repeat John's words again for you -

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If you don't keep His commandments (the law), why should I believe 'your' truth?

You are in for a rude awakening when you meet Him face to face IMO.

Any similarities between my beliefs and those of full blown Calvinists lie in the areas where we hold to the same proper interpretation of scripture. There are many such areas.

If you have never seen areas where full on Calvinists and I differ - you haven't been paying attention.

I am well prepared to meet Him face to face! That logic won't get very far with me, Marvin.

Do Calvinists get their beliefs from different Spirits? Why would the Spirit teach different things to different Calvinists?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Circumcision is a seal done by man. Men can break their word. Therefore the seal of circumcision can be undone by man.

Not all who had the mark of circumcision were saved in Israel.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is done by God. God cannot break His Word. He has given us who believe His Word on the matter. He has placed His seal in us in the form of the Holy Spirit. It cannot and will not be broken by any mere man.

All with the mark of the Holy Spirit are saved and possess eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

That's the whole point of the passage concerning the sealing by the Holy Spirit. (Duhh!)

Your views concerning salvation are all from an earthly perspective.

My view of salvation is from the lofty viewpoint of the throne of God where I am seated and ruling in the Kingdom of God with Christ.

From where you are - it doesn't surprise me one bit that you would see salvation as only a temporary condition.

Narrow is the way that leads to life and few there are who find it.

You need to place your trust in Jesus Christ and His work on the behalf of men for your only hope of salvation. Until you do you are under a curse.

Cursed is everyone who depends on keeping the law for their salvation.

It's never too late for any person, including you, to receive Christ and place their hope in Him.

Our hoping that you will perhaps do so is the only reason that people are spending so much time with you here.

No. Circumcision was not of men but it was of God under the Old Covenant. Circumcision was initially commanded by God during the Old Testament. Also, Scripture says,

"And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith" (Romans 4:11).

This was for the Old Covenant and if a person broke the Law under the Old Covenant, they made their circumcision as uncircumsion (Which the undoing of such an act is spiritual and not physical).

"but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision." (Romans 2:25).

Also, when Paul references the word "Law" in the book of Galatians and Romans, etc. he is usually referring to the Old Testament Law of Moses and not all law whatsoever. How so? Well, do a keyword search at blueletterbible.org for the word "circumcision" and or "circumcise" and you will see that he was addressing those who were trying to go back to the Old Law thru circumcision, etc. Furtheremore, we know Paul is not referring to all Laws or Commands whatsoever because Paul said himself that what he has written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul also says that if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). So your whole concept of speaking against the doctrine of Godliness by saying that we can sin and still be saved is refuted by Paul himself. So no. A person cannot commit the sin of self murder (i.e. suicide) and still be saved. It doesn't work like that.


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