It should be Murder?

[jenny1972]

Parents are asked questions about the circumstances of the injury when they take their child to the ER for such a reason. That's an interrogation, by definition. It doesn't mean good cop/bad cop with a low-hanging lamp in a jail. I wasn't trying to sensationalize. And interrogations are a crucial part of nearly any investigation, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Anyhow, terminology is beside the point. Questioning, interrogation, investigation, whatever. I was simply referring to the investigative process that takes place in this situation. Whatever you would like to call that is what a woman would go through after a miscarriage in a truly pro-life nation, as she would be the parent of a child who is not only injured, but dead.

and what exactly do you have against investigations what you choose to call interrogations?

 

[Cearbhall]

do you believe that children to arrive in the ER with suspicious bruises and burns should be investigated ?

Yes, of course. I agree with the current policy of pursuing these cases, starting with questioning both the child and the parents.

 

[jenny1972]

Which is why I ask about the state monitoring women so as to ensure the safety of these very vulnerable citizens.

no the state would not be allowed to monitor women in case they become pregnant and monitor their pregnancies . If they are known to be pregnant and are suspected of having an abortion there should be an investigation to see if the suspicions are true and the prosecutor will choose if there is enough evidence to go forward with charges just like any other murder charge and just like any charge of any kind all are innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Cute Tink]

Yes there is definitely a much different connotation to the word interview and the word interrogate thought they can both be used to refer to the same thing.

Interrogation just sounds so harsh, doesn't it?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Hey everyone, I am just jumping into this thread. I would like everyone to look at what is going on in China. They are having similar issues with their "one child policy". Back alley abortions are running rampant as a result.

About my personal views of abortion. I used to be strictly against abortion in all situations. However, not so much anymore. I believe that there are very rare examples where abortion would not be in my opinion "murder". An example would be in a case where there was a complication during pregnancy where it would be impossible for the baby to survive and to allow the pregnancy to continue would greatly risk the life of the mother. I have a cousin who was in this situation. I am not a doctor and cant give specific details. All I know is that the egg did not make it into the womb and was stuck in the fallopian (I think that is how you spell it) tube. Doctors explained to her that in this specific situation, the child will not survive and will either die on its own or kill my cousin thus killing the baby too.

In this specific case, I would not consider it "murder" because I would see it as the baby had a death sentence to begin with. An abortion is only doing what was inevitably going to happen in order to save the mother. However, this is the ONLY example that I can come up with at the moment to justify an abortion. In any other situation, adoption would be the only answer.

Btw.... my cousin absolutely wanted to have the child. It was the hardest decision she ever had to make in her life. If there was any chance the baby would have survived she would not terminate the pregnancy. Even if it would have cost her own life.

 

[jenny1972]

Yes, of course. I agree with the current policy of pursuing these cases, starting with questioning both the child and the parents.

good so do i not all investigations are bad sometimes investigations are necessary considering the fact that crimes do happen .

 

[Desk trauma]

no the state would not be allowed to monitor women in case they become pregnant and monitor their pregnancies .

91% of abortions happen within the first 13 weeks of pregnancies. I doubt that those numbers would change were abortion to be criminalized. That's early enough that unless there is some kind of monitoring the majority of abortions would continue largely undetected. If you consider abortion to be murder and want it legally treated as such I would think that you would want effective enforcement.

 

[Cearbhall]

good so do i not all investigations are bad sometimes investigations are necessary considering the fact that crimes do happen .

Of course...is this what you thought we were debating?

 

[DaisyDay]

I would say no. No one should be forced to become pregnant.

To stay pregnant after becoming pregnant unintentionally.

 

[jenny1972]

91% of abortions happen within the first 13 weeks of pregnancies. I doubt that those numbers would change were abortion to be criminalized. That's early enough that unless there is some kind of monitoring the majority of abortions would continue largely undetected. If you consider abortion to be murder and want it legally treated as such I would think that you would want effective enforcement.

some crimes are easier to get away with than others i dont believe that each and every family should be monitored in case they kill their children even though some parents do kill their children many do not . Unless there is a reason to believe the parents might kill their children it should be assumed that they do not have an intent to murder their children instead of assuming that they do .

 

[jenny1972]

Of course...is this what you thought we were debating?

you appeared to have an issue with investigating possible crimes we are debating issues that would come up if killing unborn human beings was considered murder in our society and since suspected murder is investigated that would be an issue .

 

[Ed1wolf]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

Given that many of the women have been misinformed and propagandized by the usually more educated doctors and even their own public education system, most Christians I know would primarily prosecute the doctors not the women.

 

[SteveB28]

Given that many of the women have been misinformed and propagandized by the usually more educated doctors and even their own public education system, most Christians I know would primarily prosecute the doctors not the women.

Oh dear..

Have you forgotten? Under such a law, there would be no doctors performing abortions, because you've made it illegal!

Trust me, I well remember the era in which women largely had to go 'underground' to procure a termination, usually at the hands of unskilled people. It wasn't pretty. Such a stupid, stupid proposition would send us back to those days.

 

[SteveB28]

you appeared to have an issue with investigating possible crimes we are debating issues that would come up if killing unborn human beings was considered murder in our society and since suspected murder is investigated that would be an issue .

So you would have the ridiculous (not to mention immoral) situation of every woman who suffers a miscarriage being a potential 'murder' suspect! As is the case with genuine murder investigations, it would be the responsibility of those women, at a time when many are already emotionally burdened, to 'clear their names' of suspicion of murder.

In their manic zeal to find a way to control what women do with their own reproductive systems, the idiots who propose these measures simply don't care to examine the ramifications.

 

[SteveB28]

no the state would not be allowed to monitor women in case they become pregnant and monitor their pregnancies . If they are known to be pregnant and are suspected of having an abortion there should be an investigation to see if the suspicions are true and the prosecutor will choose if there is enough evidence to go forward with charges just like any other murder charge and just like any charge of any kind all are innocent until proven guilty.

Tell me this: (this is a question I asked in another discussion)

Would you make the wearing of a mechanical IUD an 'attempted murder' offence? An IUD works by preventing a fertilised egg from implanting in the wall of the uterus. Unable to implant, the egg perishes. Now, your stupid proposal is that the destruction of the product of conception would be viewed as murder. So, just as I can be charged with attempted murder if I, say, lace your glass of water with strychnine, would you have IUD-wearing women brought up on similar charges?

 

[SteveB28]

you appeared to have an issue with investigating possible crimes we are debating issues that would come up if killing unborn human beings was considered murder in our society and since suspected murder is investigated that would be an issue .

How many additional police officers, medical examiners, nursing staff, forensic specialists, etc do you think would need to be employed to administer this idiotic scheme? Given that an estimated 20-50% of all pregnancies spontaneously abort and that, under this plan, they would have to be cleared of any skullduggery, what do you imagine would be the increase in government budgets?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

How many additional police officers, medical examiners, nursing staff, forensic specialists, etc do you think would need to be employed to administer this idiotic scheme? Given that an estimated 20-50% of all pregnancies spontaneously abort and that, under this plan, they would have to be cleared of any skullduggery, what do you imagine would be the increase in government budgets?

How many more police would it take to enforce stricter gun laws?

 

[Armoured]

If killing a fetus was legally considered murder then the answer would be yes. They would be investigated. If an abortion was found to be spontaneous no charges would be filed. I do not see how any of this speculation in any way invalidates the argument that abortion is murder. I personally do not make the argument but if one truly believes that a fetus is as much a human being as an adult person then how one prosecutes the crime of murder is rather irrelevant as a way of going about showing that a fetus is not a human being in the same regard as an adult person.

Well at least it's an honest response. Now go look up how many pregnancies naturally terminate and tell us how practical it would be to launch a murder investigation for every one of them?

 

[Armoured]

How many more police would it take to enforce stricter gun laws?

...Because THAT'S a valid comparison!

 

[Blondepudding]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

Doubt you'll find legitimate consideration for that question.
The sector of society that believes abortion is murder have in their number those who murder abortion providers in the name of pro-life.
It should be no one's business but the woman who has to make the choice. But that's not the society we live in today.
Meanwhile, there are 423,773 children in the U.S. foster care system; 114,556 of these children are available for adoption.

Maybe those who think abortion is murder should start adopting one of the 114, 556 born children looking for a family after their mothers demonstrated they were pro-choice. Having chosen to have the child but not choosing to raise the child.

It's easy to command others to obey one's opinion. It's harder to walk the talk about being proactively in favor of life and then giving a life to a child in the foster care system.