Question

[bhsmte]

That's what we are supposed to believe, but it's a defective thesis. There are a bunch of other factors that would have to be considered in addition to determining what constitutes being "well educated."

Lets look at physicians as an example.

I would claim, physicians have a better understanding of the realities of how disease works, in the human body and much better than, the average Joe that does not have this type of education.

Is this a bad thing, that physicians have this specific knowledge and they typically don't tell their patients with disease; lets forgo the medical treatment for your disease and why don't you just pray to be healed?

 

[Albion]

Lets look at physicians as an example.

I would claim, physicians have a better understanding of the realities of how disease works, in the human body and much better than, the average Joe that does not have this type of education.

Is this a bad thing, that physicians have this specific knowledge and they typically don't tell their patients with disease; lets forgo the medical treatment for your disease and why don't you just pray to be healed?

Are we talking about physicians and medical diagnoses all of a sudden? The story was about a presumed correlation between higher education and religious belief.

 

[bhsmte]

Are we talking about physicians and medical diagnoses all of a sudden? The story was about a presumed correlation between higher education and religious belief.

Physicians are a good example of higher education, are they not?

Is it a good thing physicians have a better understanding of the realities of their profession?

 

[Albion]

Physicians are a good example of higher education, are they not?

Is it a good thing physicians have a better understanding of the realities of their profession?

What does this have to do with believing in God??????? My doctor is a Christian and I think he's a competent physician as well.

 

[bhsmte]

What does this have to do with believing in God??????? My doctor is a Christian and I think he's a competent physician as well.

It has to do with the fact, people with understanding of specific fields that require higher education, don't forgo this understanding and instead reference some unseen and unobserved super natural force instead.

 

[Albion]

It has to do with the fact, people with understanding of specific fields that require higher education, don't forgo this understanding and instead reference some unseen and unobserved super natural force instead.

You made being a physician your argument, however. The question is not about whether physicians are more or less religious than someone else! The issue is supposed to be about "education."

What's more, you didn't even get to the part about being a physician and being religious (or not). For all we know, your hypothetical physician is devoutly religious.

 

[bhsmte]

You made being a physician your argument, however. The question is not about whether physicians are more or less religious than someone else! The issue is supposed to be about "education."

What's more, you didn't even get to the part about being a physician and being religious (or not). For all we know, your hypothetical physician is devoutly religious.

The person I was having the exchange with, appeared to imply, people with higher education, are somehow limited by this education to see and believe in things we can not observe and it puts them at a disadvantage.

I was simply making a point, that those who achieve higher education and understand the specifics of their field, actually have an advantage of understanding the natural world and this is a good thing.

This all started of course, with my statement; that folks who achieve higher levels of education, correlate with less belief in religions and Gods.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The person I was having the exchange with, appeared to imply, people with higher education, are somehow limited by this education to see and believe in things we can not observe and it puts them at a disadvantage.

I was simply making a point, that those who achieve higher education and understand the specifics of their field, actually have an advantage of understanding the natural world and this is a good thing.

This all started of course, with my statement; that folks who achieve higher levels of education, correlate with less belief in religions and Gods.

Knowledge of a particular field in no way correlates to general knowledge.

 

[bhsmte]

Knowledge of a particular field in no way correlates to general knowledge.

What do you think would be an adequate measure of general knowledge?

 

[popsthebuilder]

What do you think would be an adequate measure of general knowledge?

Iq test

 

[variant]

The reason for my faith in God lies n the multiple verifications of such on multiple levels. They are pertinent to me alone for the most part, but too have been verified by multiple core scriptures as well. I can copy and paste a very shortened version of my initial experience if it would help you in any way.
Peace

Well your question was why you weren't an atheist so it seems you already know the answer.

 

[variant]

It means that through the tunnel vision of the material one can only comprehend the material.

My experience with people is that they can comprehend a wide variety of things.

 

[bhsmte]

Iq test

And the same correlation would apply.

To summarise briefly, a recent review of 63 studies showed that there is a moderate negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity (Zuckerman, Silberman, & Hall, 2013). The review found that religious beliefs, such as belief in God, are somewhat more strongly related to lower intelligence than religious behavior, such as church attendance. The authors estimated that the average difference in IQ points between believers and nonbelievers ranged from 6.2 for non-college samples to 7.8 for college samples. This difference is roughly half a standard deviation in size, so this represents a reasonably substantial effect rather than something trivial.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...201401/more-knowledge-less-belief-in-religion

 

[popsthebuilder]

And the same correlation would apply.

To summarise briefly, a recent review of 63 studies showed that there is a moderate negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity (Zuckerman, Silberman, & Hall, 2013). The review found that religious beliefs, such as belief in God, are somewhat more strongly related to lower intelligence than religious behavior, such as church attendance. The authors estimated that the average difference in IQ points between believers and nonbelievers ranged from 6.2 for non-college samples to 7.8 for college samples. This difference is roughly half a standard deviation in size, so this represents a reasonably substantial effect rather than something trivial.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...201401/more-knowledge-less-belief-in-religion

Sounds like a load of craps. That doesn't pertain to me personally and doesn't correlate with your initial statement when you said people with a higher education are less religious. Or that those who are more learned tend not to believe in God. An iq test has little to do with book knowledge.

 

[bhsmte]

Sounds like a load of craps. That doesn't pertain to me personally and doesn't correlate with your initial statement when you said people with a higher education are less religious. Or that those who are more learned tend not to believe in God. An iq test has little to do with book knowledge.

It absolutely correlates.

I posted support for both correlations; higher education achieved correlates with less religious belief and higher IQ attained, correlates with less religious belief.

It is, what it is.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It absolutely correlates.

I posted support for both correlations; higher education achieved correlates with less religious belief and higher IQ attained, correlates with less religious belief.

It is, what it is.

I believe that to be a biased finding. Numbers can be skewed and to mean whatever one wants tum to. Regardless. I'm done. I'm not going to try to prove otherwise, it is a pointless argument without any benefit to either of us. You may be correct, but what you say doesn't line up with my observations or experiences in any way. I have found people of all walks with both high and lo intelligence, seemingly.

I give.

Peace

 

[variant]

I believe that to be a biased finding. Numbers can be skewed and to mean whatever one wants tum to.

If you're willing to disregard evidence when it doesn't line up with your preconceived conclusions you have no basis call other people biased.

Confirmation bias.

Regardless. I'm done. I'm not going to try to prove otherwise, it is a pointless argument without any benefit to either of us. You may be correct, but what you say doesn't line up with my observations or experiences in any way. I have found people of all walks with both high and lo intelligence, seemingly.

I give.

Peace

We already can't trust you as an observer because you are willing to disregard evidence.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

No.

The only differentiating factor I can see between theistic arguments is that some are unconvincing, while others are unconvincing and stupid.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If you're willing to disregard evidence when it doesn't line up with your preconceived conclusions you have no basis call other people biased.

Confirmation bias.



We already can't trust you as an observer because you are willing to disregard evidence.

I just stated that they could be correct, but that it doesn't align with what I know to be true based on personal observation and my own intellect that I myself have tested. I am not being dishonest in any way. Numbers can be skewed. And still he may be right. How do you know that the tests weren't done in states with generally more educated people to attest for atheism, and then use data from the less educated states for the data on the believers? Biases can be manipulative on many levels. Propaganda is a type of manipulative art pretty much.

I stated that that individual could be correct.

You say I am being dishonest.

That is assumption. Do you know who I know? Have you conversed with the same individuals that I have? Are you me, a believer? I would never make a claim that atheist are less intellectual. And really I can see how those study could easily observe those findings. I'm just saying that in my experience I have found varied intellectual levels on both sides of the field.

That isn't being dishonest.

I even stated way earlier that my motives were somewhat founded initially by resentment, yet to you, I am dishonest?

 

[variant]

I just stated that they could be correct, but that it doesn't align with what I know to be true based on personal observation and my own intellect that I myself have tested. I am not being dishonest in any way. Numbers can be skewed. And still he may be right. How do you know that the tests weren't done in states with generally more educated people to attest for atheism, and then use data from the less educated states for the data on the believers? Biases can be manipulative on many levels. Propaganda is a type of manipulative art pretty much.

I stated that that individual could be correct.

You say I am being dishonest.

That is assumption. Do you know who I know? Have you conversed with the same individuals that I have? Are you me, a believer? I would never make a claim that atheist are less intellectual. And really I can see how those study could easily observe those findings. I'm just saying that in my experience I have found varied intellectual levels on both sides of the field.

That isn't being dishonest.

I even stated way earlier that my motives were somewhat founded initially by resentment, yet to you, I am dishonest?

I didn't say you were being dishonest. Bias isn't necessarily about dishonesty but often instead it is a lack of awareness.

The lack of trust mentioned wouldn't be because of a lack of belief in your honesty but rather due to poor analysis.

You aren't necessarily aware of your bias, but when confronted with data your choice was to disregard it and focus instead on your "experience", which shows evidence of a confirmation bias in your experience in general.

Why would you doubt the detailed research and not your own much more limited experience? I'm betting that you can not show that your "experience" is a more through and less biased set of research you are criticizing ad hoc.