Paul's limited understanding!

[St_Worm2]

Peter quotes Paul?

St. Peter speaks of St. Paul and of his Epistles in 2 Peter 3:15-18.

 

[civilwarbuff]

That is actually incorrect, Paul's writings were hardly ever or never quoted by any church fathers before 200AD. Paul's writing became popular after the Council of Nicea when 50 Bibles were commissioned and sent all over the empire.

You need to read Clement....if you are not willing to do that politely shut up

 

[HebrewVaquero]

St. Peter speaks of St. Paul and of his Epistles in 2 Peter 3:15-18.

Yes, but he doesn't quote him.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

You need to read Clement....if you are not willing to do that politely shut up

You're right, I do need to read Clement again as the particulars are a little fuzzy.

You're wrong, I don't need to shut up, you need to open up and share what you know.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You're right, I do need to read Clement again as the particulars are a little fuzzy.

You're wrong, I don't need to shut up, you need to open up and share what you know.

If you re-read Clement....you will shut up...because you will realize how wrong you are....

 

[HebrewVaquero]

If you re-read Clement....you will shut up...because you will realize how wrong you are....

Why? Because Clement was the first to quote Paul?
Or is there another reason?

 

[St_Worm2]

That is actually incorrect, Paul's writings were hardly ever or never quoted by any church fathers before 200AD. Paul's writing became popular after the Council of Nicea when 50 Bibles were commissioned and sent all over the empire.

Following Clement of Rome we have:

Saint Polycarp, (~70 AD to 155 AD*), Greek bishop of Smyrna who was the leading 2nd-century Christian. Historically, he formed a link between the apostolic and patristic ages. By his major writing, The Letter to the Philippians, and by his widespread moral authority, Polycarp combated various heretical sects, including certain Gnostic groups that claimed religious salvation exclusively through their arcane spiritual knowledge.

More important, however, is the way in which Polycarp referred to the apostle Paul in The Letter to the Philippians. Not only does he repeatedly quote from Paul’s writings but he also stresses the personal importance of Paul as a primary authority of the Christian church. Excerpts from: Encyclopedia Britannica​

The importance of St. Paul and his Epistles to the church seem to be well established within the First and Second Centuries AD.

Yours and His,
David

*I had incorrect dates for his birth/death

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Following Clement of Rome we have:

Saint Polycarp, (101 AD to 200 AD), Greek bishop of Smyrna who was the leading 2nd-century Christian. Historically, he formed a link between the apostolic and patristic ages. By his major writing, The Letter to the Philippians, and by his widespread moral authority, Polycarp combated various heretical sects, including certain Gnostic groups that claimed religious salvation exclusively through their arcane spiritual knowledge.

More important, however, is the way in which Polycarp referred to the apostle Paul in The Letter to the Philippians. Not only does he repeatedly quote from Paul’s writings but he also stresses the personal importance of Paul as a primary authority of the Christian church. Excerpts from: Encyclopedia Britannica​

The importance of St. Paul and his Epistles to the church seem to be well established within the First and Second Centuries AD.

Yours and His,
David

I believe Poly Carp quoted all 27 books of the New Testament.

However you notice when Paul is quoted by Poly Carp or Clement, it is when they are writing the same people Paul wrote.

 

[St_Worm2]

...when Paul is quoted by Poly Carp or Clement, it is when they are writing the same people Paul wrote.

Your point is?

I forgot to mention Ignatius, who also wrote in the 2nd Century and also quoted St. Paul's NT epistles (among others). Here is a record of the NT quotations* found in some of his writings:

Letter of Ignatius to the Ephesians

• 2 – John 8:29

• 3 – John 17:11-12

• 5 – James 4:6

• 6 – names Onesimus, as in Philemon

• 6 – John 1:14

• 7 - 1 Tim 4:10

• 8 – 1 Pet 2:9

• 9 – Matt 5:2, 2 Tim 2:24-25, Luke 23:34

• 11 – Rom 2:4

• 12 – Matt 23:35, Acts of the Apostles 9:15

• 13 – Eph 6:16, 6:12

• 14 – Luke 10:27, Matt 12:33

• 15 – 1 Cor 4:20, Rom 10:10, 2 Cor 8:18

• 16 – 2 Cor 6:14-16

• 18 – 1 Cor 1:20
  

Letter of Ignatius to the Magnesians

• 3 – 1 Tim 4:12

• 4 – Luke 6:46

• 8 – 2 Cor 5:17, mentions Judaizers

• 9 – 2 Thess 3:10, Phil 3:18-19, 2 Tim 3:4

• 10 – Acts 11:26
  

Letter of Ignatius to the Romans

• 2 – 2 Cor 4:18

• 7 – Gal 2:20

Letter of Ignatius to the Philadelphians

• 2 – 2 Tim 3:6

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - also, Polycarp’s letter, The Letter to the Philippians, includes quotes from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 1 and 2 Peter, 1 John, and Jude.

*this is not an exhaustive list

 

[Wgw]

I believe Poly Carp quoted all 27 books of the New Testament.

However you notice when Paul is quoted by Poly Carp or Clement, it is when they are writing the same people Paul wrote.

Polycarp, not Poly Carp.

 

[St_Worm2]

Yes, but he doesn't quote him.

Far more importantly, St. Peter speaks of St. Paul in glowing terms as a "beloved brother", and of the high importance of his Epistles, referring to them as "Scripture" (2 Peter 3:15-18).

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Polycarp, not Poly Carp.

Thats better than the predictive text wanted to put swapping the a and r, lol!

 

[Righttruth]

"
"MY chosen vessel" is an apostle.

You have the freedom to chose according to your fancy, but doesn't carry any weight spiritually! It may be misleading too!

 

[Righttruth]

Oh, and what do you suppose was meant, in that case?

Just as it states. Jesus had number of disciples, chosen vessels, followers, saints et al but only 12 chosen apostles.

 

[Righttruth]

So what, precisely, is the doctrine that you are preaching that excludes everything Pauline and Johannan?

I am not excluding Pauline in total. I filter his epistles. I only accept portions and verses that complement the preaching of Jesus.

 

[Righttruth]

And yet, the latter 1st and early 2nd century Christians--people who actually knew the apostles--accepted Paul's writings, copied them, shared them, and quoted them.

What do you know that they did not know?

There was already a group in Jerusalem that totally rejected Paul's writings. It is the Gentile world that played havoc in the understanding of the Gospel.

 

[St_Worm2]

There was already a group in Jerusalem that totally rejected Paul's writings. It is the Gentile world that played havoc in the understanding of the Gospel.

Please elaborate. Which 1st Century "group in Jerusalem" rejected St. Paul's Epistles? Also, how did the Gentiles wreak havoc on the understanding of the Gospel?

Thanks!

--David

 

[Jack Terrence]

You have the freedom to chose according to your fancy, but doesn't carry any weight spiritually! It may be misleading too!

The context supports me. Jesus told Ananias that Paul would proclaim his name to the Gentiles, kings and the children of Israel. This CLEARLY indicates the scope and superiority of Paul's authority. The apostle John didn't have that scope of authority. He was an apostle to Jews alone.

So you are the one with the fancy my friend.

 

[Strong in Him]

Fundamentally you are a believer in Christ. These divisions are the worst of legacy of Paul who started the first division in Jerusalem Church.

He didn't. He told the Corinthians that there shouldn't be divisions among them; that Paul and Silas were nothing, or of no importance because they only planted seeds. It was, and is, God who makes those seeds grow.

Setting his own terms and conditions to preach is not obedience to Christ!

He didn't.
Just because Paul introduced himself as an apostle and we have no verse which describes how he was given that title, you seem to be assuming that he took it for himself; that he woke up one day and said, "I am an apostle, from now on you all have to call me an apostle." I doubt very much that the other apostles would have allowed him to use, and claim, the title of apostle for himself. There must have been some reason, or some grounds, for allowing him to have this title or for bestowing it upon him.

 

[Strong in Him]

To usurp the authority and dominate the chosen apostles!

How do you know? Where are we told that Paul's agenda and ambition was to usurp the apostles' authority and dominate them?

Peter called Paul a dear brother and said that people who distorted his writings were ignorant and unstable, and it would end in their destruction, 2 Peter 3:16.