Paul's limited understanding!

[Righttruth]

Luke recorded that Jesus appeared to Ananias saying, "Paul is my chosen vessel."

A chosen vessel is not an apostle.

 

[Righttruth]

Frankly, since you also weren't a witness to the last supper, I'd take St. Paul's word over yours, mate.

It is not my words; it is the witnessing of the apostles who were present that you should accept over in-absentia self-claim crafty Paul.

 

[Jack Terrence]

A chosen vessel is not an apostle.

"
"MY chosen vessel" is an apostle.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Delete duplicate

 

[civilwarbuff]

Kicks Against the Pricks
Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)

Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae]. Source:


A. N. Wilson, Paul:The Mind of the Apostle (W. W. Norton & Co., N.Y., 1997), pp. 75-76.

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recommendedreading/300-pagan-influences-in-writings-of-paul.html[/Q

Kicks Against the Pricks
Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)

Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae]. Source:


A. N. Wilson, Paul:The Mind of the Apostle (W. W. Norton & Co., N.Y., 1997), pp. 75-76.

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recommendedreading/300-pagan-influences-in-writings-of-paul.html

Understood...it was an idiom of that time....sort of like "don't go off half cocked" is today.....

 

[RDKirk]

"According to the flesh", i.e., "seed of a woman".

Your "i.e." is unfounded. Nothing in the context even implies denial of the virgin birth, and the writings of Paul's disciple certainly confirm it.

 

[Wgw]

A chosen vessel is not an apostle.

Oh, and what do you suppose was meant, in that case?

 

[RDKirk]

His purpose was to dominate the semi-literate apostles and mislead the Gentiles from the true meaning of the message of Jesus!

So what, precisely, is the doctrine that you are preaching that excludes everything Pauline and Johannan?

 

[RDKirk]

Ok, reality check:
To believe Paul you have to believe one of the following:
1) The Bible has been corrupted.
2) The Bible has been mistranslated.
3) Some of what Jesus said isn't true.
4) Paul is simply misunderstood.
Or:
You can be a dispensationalist then you can dismiss or accept anything by just applying it to the dispensation of your choice.

So what, precisely, is this doctrine you're advocating that eliminates everything Pauline from scripture?

 

[RDKirk]

He was prepared for anything to push his agenda. He couldn't turn back! Paul was the first heretic in Christianity!

And yet, the latter 1st and early 2nd century Christians--people who actually knew the apostles--accepted Paul's writings, copied them, shared them, and quoted them.

What do you know that they did not know?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

So what, precisely, is this doctrine you're advocating that eliminates everything Pauline from scripture?

No doctrine, I'm just saying the teachings of Jesus take precedence. When one realizes this, everything falls into place.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

And yet, the latter 1st and early 2nd century Christians--people who actually knew the apostles--accepted Paul's writings, copied them, shared them, and quoted them.

What do you know that they did not know?

That is actually incorrect, Paul's writings were hardly ever or never quoted by any church fathers before 200AD. Paul's writing became popular after the Council of Nicea when 50 Bibles were commissioned and sent all over the empire.

 

[RDKirk]

Kicks Against the Pricks
Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)

Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae]. Source:


A. N. Wilson, Paul:The Mind of the Apostle (W. W. Norton & Co., N.Y., 1997), pp. 75-76.

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recommendedreading/300-pagan-influences-in-writings-of-paul.html

Do you figure that the Greek-knowledgeable audience Luke wrote for did not know Euripides? Do you figure that nobody in the last 2000 years has known Euripides except you?

So you have to wonder how that phrase would have been taken by Luke's immediate audience (or for that matter, Paul's immediate audience when he first related the story). Do you really think nobody--except you--ever realized, "that sounds like a line from Euripides?"

 

[RDKirk]

No doctrine, I'm just saying the teachings of Jesus take precedence. When one realizes this, everything falls into place.

What, precisely, were the teachings of Jesus...that have any more early Church acceptance than the Pauline epistles?

 

[Wgw]

That is actually incorrect, Paul's writings were hardly ever or never quoted by any church fathers before 200AD. Paul's writing became popular after the Council of Nicea when 50 Bibles were commissioned and sent all over the empire.

That is entirely false. The writings of St. Paul were accepted by most Christians from the first century, and we have numerous writings, such as 1 Clement, Irenaeus and so on, that attest to that. Only a tiny minority of Ebionite heretics denied the validity of the Pauline corpus.

The Arians who were defeated at Nicea furthermore accepted St. Paul, as did the Orthodox.

 

[RDKirk]

That is actually incorrect, Paul's writings were hardly ever or never quoted by any church fathers before 200AD. Paul's writing became popular after the Council of Nicea when 50 Bibles were commissioned and sent all over the empire.

Clement of Rome.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

That is entirely false. The writings of St. Paul were accepted by most Christians from the first century, and we have numerous writings, such as 1 Clement, Irenaeus and so on, that attest to that. Only a tiny minority of Ebionite heretics denied the validity of the Pauline corpus.

The Arians who were defeated at Nicea furthermore accepted St. Paul, as did the Orthodox.

If memory serves correctly 1Clement was the first, and when did he write? I think 180AD? (Just a guess)
My post stands, Paul was hardly ever quoted before 200 AD

 

[Wgw]

If memory serves correctly 1Clement was the first, and when did he write?

Actually, Ss. Peter and Luke beat him to it by a few decades.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Actually, Ss. Peter and Luke beat him to it by a few decades.

Peter quotes Paul?
Where?
Luke wrote about Paul but where does Luke quote any of Paul's writings?

 

[St_Worm2]

If memory serves correctly 1Clement was the first, and when did he write? I think 180AD? (Just a guess)
My post stands, Paul was hardly ever quoted before 200 AD

Clement of Rome is considered to be the oldest or first ECF. He held the office of Pope from 88 AD until his death in 99 AD.