Correct. And separated by at least 1,000+ years.Right: one for the just and one for the unjust.
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Correct. And separated by at least 1,000+ years.Right: one for the just and one for the unjust.
Primarily because that would be too "simple". Complexity is supposed to be profound, and the more confusion you can create, the more learned you are.That is EXACTLY what the text says. So why to so many not believe it as written?
That is EXACTLY what the text says. So why to so many not believe it as written?
If they are absent from the body ....what "part" of the believers in Christ goes to Heaven ?Hint ...their SOULS. Think about it !'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8
No waiting![]()
On the contrary, Paul said "a resurrection (singular) there shall be of both just and unjust." He does not say "of each," but "of both."Right: one for the just and one for the unjust.
Why don't you just believe John in Rev. 20? Or do you just spiritualize it away?
iamlamad said in post 4738:
First, only those IN CHRIST put on immortality. Later the Old Testament saints.
iamlamad said in post 4738:
After the 1000 years, the sinners get raised.
iamlamad said in post 4741:
He is coming first FOR His saints. Since you don't believe that, you will not be ready or watching, and WILL be left behind.
iamlamad said in post 4756:
Do you really think Jesus will harvest PEOPLE with a sickle? We used to harvest corn that way! That part of Rev. 14 is SYMBOLIC and prophetic of future events.
iamlamad said in post 4761:
I have not done it, but my guess is, if we let 11 5th graders read this passage, they would all come to the same conclusion.
ivebeenshown said in post 4750:
Paul stated in Acts that he believed there shall be one resurrection of both the just and the unjust.
It doesn't say beheaded in Revelation 15.. It does indicate that they were martyred.John saw the souls of those beheaded by the Antichrist only in Revelation 15 NOT in Revelation 6:9 at the opening of the 5 Th seal.
Revelation 15King (KJV)
15 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
BABerean2 said in post 4768:
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
BABerean2 said in post 4768:
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Revelation 15:2 clearly indicate that they -had gotten the victory over the BEAST/Antichrist because they refused to worship the AC and refused the mark .. .We know that this mean being beheaded.It doesn't say beheaded in Revelation 15.. It does indicate that they were martyred.
The martyred saints in Revelation 6:9-11 are the EARLY church martyrs (the Apostles and the Christians martyred by the Romans) ...but they are not those that will be slain /ie beheaded by the Antichrist mentioned in Revelation 15:2.All of the horses of the apocalypse precede the fifth seal - so those are martyred saints in Revelation 6:9 as well.
Paul also says that each is raised up "in his own order", rather than in some future group event.What we would 'rather' have happen and what God intends, aren't the same thing.
2 Corinthians 5:9-10 goes on to say we must remain acceptable to Him and it is only at the Judgement of Lord, that we receive what is due to us. Thinking the righteous dead go to heaven before the end of the Millennium conflicts with plain scripture.
Ah! You THINK "false prophet" because what was written does not agree with your false theories. I get that. Everything in that post is backed up by scripture, rightly divided. He is coming first FOR His saints. Since you don't believe that, you will not be ready or watching, and WILL be left behind. Have you counted up how many times Jesus told us to WATCH? Just what are you watching for?
Proving what something is NOT does not prove what it IS.
ANYONE can put scriptures together to make them SEEM to say something. If you could find your theories in the New Testament, someone might believe them.
By the way, we do agree on n2thelight.
You are going to be SO SHOCKED when your "impossible" takes place. However, you will only get to see it, not participate.
You forgot the words of Jesus: "With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."
I have an idea: why not just believe John 14: that Jesus went to heaven to prepare HOMES in heaven. That is what a normal reading tells us. And that He will come back, get those watching for Him and take them to the places prepared. I have not done it, but my guess is, if we let 11 5th graders read this passage, they would all come to the same conclusion.
Do you believe Peter?
1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Do you believe Hebrews?
Hebrews 12:22
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 11:
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Do you believe Paul?
Colossians 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
John 13:36
Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
WHERE did Simon Peter follow Jesus?
Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
WHERE did they come from?
Jesus said our reward is in heaven. I guess you will not get to see yours.
Can you explain why John saw only the SOULS of DEAD believers in Heaven in His VISION ?Souls are not resurrected yet.
John saw no humans in their resurrected/changed bodies in Heaven ....but , only their SOULS .
There must be a reason that John saw only the resurrected bodies of the martyrs reunited with their souls to reign (the 12 apostles Matthew 19:28) and the other martyrs being priests with Jesus HERE on the EARTH (Revelation 20:4-5)....Think about it !!!
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Well, that is the way YOU read these verses. Please allow me to give you some advice: when a theory does not fit ALL scripture, instead of relegating those that a theory won't fit to symbolism or non-literal writing, it would be a great time to alter the theory instead of changing the meaning of scripture. ASk yourself: does a verse make good sense in a literal sense (such as the scriptures about the 1000 years)? If so, LEAVE IT ALONE! It was meant to be taken literally.Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Because all of the other passages say otherwise...
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Where then did their spirit man go? When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, did they think they saw a soul? The bible said SPIRIT. What part of a man's WILL (part of the soul) is visible? What part of THOUGHTS are visible? What part of EMOTIONS are visible? I am speaking of visible in the realm of the spirit. Of course NONE of these things are visible. But SPIRITS are visible. That is why those in the boat thought they saw a SPIRIT.If they are absent from the body ....what "part" of the believers in Christ goes to Heaven ?Hint ...their SOULS. Think about it !
Yet Revelation 20 makes it VERY clear there will be 2 resurrections; one for the just and one for the sinner. Why then do you choose to believe one and IGNORE the other? Of course one man will be fit BOTH resurrections, so Paul would chose a singular word.On the contrary, Paul said "a resurrection (singular) there shall be of both just and unjust." He does not say "of each," but "of both."