Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[keras]

When Jesus was asked about the end times, the FIRST thing He said was NOT to be deceived.
The above post is 100% deception. The 6th seal comes 3 1/2 years before anything in Rev. 14.

Purely your opinion. Deception is the hallmark of the pre-trib rapture proponents.
The 'harvest' of the nations, as described by John in Matthew 3:12, is the next prophesied event. Jesus is the One seated on a cloud wearing a gold crown. Revelation 14:14
It will be the Isaiah 63:1-6 tramping of the nations, where Jesus gets Hs blood splashed garments, that He is wearing at His Return. Revelation 19:13

 

[keras]

Proving what something is NOT does not prove what it IS.

I have given proof that Jesus refutes any rapture. The rapture to heaven idea is simply impossible.

ANYONE can put scriptures together to make them SEEM to say something

So right!
This is exactly what all you pre trib rapturestists, do.
Because you cannot provide any scripture that clearly says God will take His people to heaven, you add to verses like John 14:1-5 and 1 Thess 4:15-16 to say that. BOTH scriptures state clearly that what happens then, is as Jesus DESCENDS from heaven.
Lamad, and all who grip onto being raptured outta here, you are Christian brothers, you will be saved, 'as only by passing thru fire: 1 Corinthians 3:15 But, You will have to bear the loss, caused by your teaching of false doctrines. James 3:1

 

[Douggg]

So right!
This is exactly what all you pre trib rapturestists, do.
Because you cannot provide any scripture that clearly says God will take His people to heaven, you add to verses like John 14:1-5 and 1 Thess 4:15-16 to say that. BOTH scriptures state clearly that what happens then, is as Jesus DESCENDS from heaven.
Lamad, and all who grip onto being raptured outta here, you are Christian brothers, you will be saved, 'as only by passing thru fire: 1 Corinthians 3:15 But, You will have to bear the loss, caused by your teaching of false doctrines. James 3:1

Where does the soul of a Christian go, when a Christian dies ? For example, Paul.

 

[keras]

Where does the soul of a Christian go, when a Christian dies ? For example, Paul.

The Bible is clear, all who die sleep in the grave. Hebrews 9:27
Paul and all the rest of the Christian martyrs will be resurrected at Jesus' Return, Revelation 20:4 But the rest of all the dead, Christian or ungodly, are not raised until the GWT judgement at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:5 & 11-14
Any theory or belief other than this is unscriptural.

 

[ScottA]

Where does the soul of a Christian go, when a Christian dies ? For example, Paul.

'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8

No waiting

 

[ivebeenshown]

The Bible is clear, all who die sleep in the grave. Hebrews 9:27
Paul and all the rest of the Christian martyrs will be resurrected at Jesus' Return, Revelation 20:4 But the rest of all the dead, Christian or ungodly, are not raised until the GWT judgement at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:5 & 11-14
Any theory or belief other than this is unscriptural.

Paul stated in Acts that he believed there shall be one resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

 

[Short Timer]

Jesus summarized the law of the Spirit, and it was to love God and neighbor. Would you also criticize the mentally handicapped or otherwise stricken individuals who for some reason fail to understand some technical component of the Scriptures, but have the sweetest heart? Can you not see that those who follow Christ follow him in the Spirit according to grace and not according to their academic understanding of Scriptures? You seem to place more importance on knowledge than on Truth, because Truth is not to be found in knowledge alone, but in how we treat each other. And if you will judge your fellow Christian so as to condemn them as a liar, that they do not truly believe, or that their disagreement with you is by way of necessity a purposeful distortion of the Truth, then it would seem to me that you do not have kind regard for your neighbor, and the Scriptures contain many an example of how Jesus feels about that.

Jesus knows how it feels to tell people the Truth only to have them reject it to.

Mt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
(doctrine of nobody goes to heaven)

Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
(Rejecting the teaching, or to be taught, of Jesus and the HG)

Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

We're dealing with the same kind of people Jesus dealt with, Religious to the core, but no Righteousness or Spirit of God about them.

Don't expect any more luck with them than Jesus had with Israel.

 

[keras]

'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8 No waiting

What we would 'rather' have happen and what God intends, aren't the same thing.
2 Corinthians 5:9-10 goes on to say we must remain acceptable to Him and it is only at the Judgement of Lord, that we receive what is due to us. Thinking the righteous dead go to heaven before the end of the Millennium conflicts with plain scripture.

Jesus knows how it feels to tell people the Truth only to have them reject it to.

Jesus also said: Many false prophets will come and will deceive many. Matthew 24:11

Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

Isaiah 29:9-10 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, if you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with wine, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor. He has closed the prophetic vision and sealed the means of discerning the future to you.

Jeremiah 14:11-16 The Lord said to me: Do not pray for the wellbeing of this people. Though they fast and worship Me, [but not in spirit and in truth] I shall not listen to their cry on the Day of My punishment. But Lord – their leaders and pastors say to them: you will not face the terrible sword of judgement and they preach prosperity and escape from tribulation.
The Lord answered me: These are lies that your leaders are misleading the people with. I have not sent them, I have not given them My commission, or spoken to them. They are giving out false teachings, useless advice and their own foolish daydreams.
Therefore, I say about those teachers and pastors who speak falsely in My Name, they will meet their end in My Day of wrath, I shall pour down upon them the disaster they deserve.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 The time will come when people will not stand sound teaching, but each will go after their own desires and will only listen to teachers who give pleasant and easy outcomes. People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching. They will only believe fables and fanciful notions.1 Timothy 1:7 Ref: REB.


‘Beasts of the field’, foreigners, non Israelites. Those who have ‘encroached onto the holy Land’. Jeremiah 12:14
‘Israel’s watchmen perceive nothing’, the veil that hides the true knowledge of God’s Word is upon them, because of false beliefs. Deuteronomy 29:4
‘If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused’, Even when the truth is presented to people who think they have it all sorted, they just cannot see it. Jeremiah 6:10
‘They preach prosperity, the prosperity theology that gives a sense of false security and escape from tribulation’. The very wrong and pretentious idea of a pre tribulation rapture, that lulls people into thinking they need do nothing.
‘People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching’, 2 Peter 2:1-3

Those who reject the truth are all who make the scriptures mean what they want it to mean. This is the case with a belief in a rapture removal to heaven.
But for those who make the effort to overcome the false teachings, the fictional books that proliferate on the book stalls and all the rubbish on the internet, there is hope: Psalms 78:1-8, Isaiah 55:1-3, Psalms 25:8-9, Psalms 27:11-12, Psalms 32:8, 2 Peter 1:19

 

[iamlamad]

Merry Christmas to you my brother.

Ha ha! Thanks and Merry Christmas to you too. If it weren't for Christmas, where would we all be?

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus summarized the law of the Spirit, and it was to love God and neighbor. Would you also criticize the mentally handicapped or otherwise stricken individuals who for some reason fail to understand some technical component of the Scriptures, but have the sweetest heart? Can you not see that those who follow Christ follow him in the Spirit according to grace and not according to their academic understanding of Scriptures? You seem to place more importance on knowledge than on Truth, because Truth is not to be found in knowledge alone, but in how we treat each other. And if you will judge your fellow Christian so as to condemn them as a liar, that they do not truly believe, or that their disagreement with you is by way of necessity a purposeful distortion of the Truth, then it would seem to me that you do not have kind regard for your neighbor, and the Scriptures contain many an example of how Jesus feels about that.

Was Paul kind to those who were distorting his gospel?

 

[Riberra]

Jesus knows how it feels to tell people the Truth only to have them reject it to.

Mt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
(doctrine of nobody goes to heaven)

Can you explain why John saw only the SOULS of DEAD believers in Heaven in His VISION ?Souls are not resurrected yet.
John saw no humans in their resurrected/changed bodies in Heaven ....but , only their SOULS .

There must be a reason that John saw only the resurrected bodies of the martyrs reunited with their souls to reign (the 12 apostles Matthew 19:28) and the other martyrs being priests with Jesus HERE on the EARTH (Revelation 20:4-5)....Think about it !!!

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[iamlamad]

Purely your opinion. Deception is the hallmark of the pre-trib rapture proponents.
The 'harvest' of the nations, as described by John in Matthew 3:12, is the next prophesied event. Jesus is the One seated on a cloud wearing a gold crown. Revelation 14:14
It will be the Isaiah 63:1-6 tramping of the nations, where Jesus gets Hs blood splashed garments, that He is wearing at His Return. Revelation 19:13

Again, only your opinion. I go by what is written without any rearranging. You rearrange and then declare it truth.

READERS: keep in mind I don't rearrange Revelation. John put 7 chapters between chapter 6 and chapter 14. I believe the Holy Spirit had a REASON for this: all these events in-between will HAPPEN in-between.

Revelation makes prefect sense in the order it is written. There is simply no need to rearrange.
Deception is the majority of posts here.

Do you really think Jesus will harvest PEOPLE with a sickle? We used to harvest corn that way! That part of Rev. 14 is SYMBOLIC and prophetic of future events. For example, do the wicked get harvested at the battle of Armaggedon? Are those seen in heaven who were beheaded (Rev 15:1-4) part of the righteous harvest?

"13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood" Sorry, but this is before He reaches earth. This is the way He left heaven.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Was Paul kind to those who were distorting his gospel?

Did Peter not order us to brotherly kindness and charity?

 

[Douggg]

The Bible is clear, all who die sleep in the grave. Hebrews 9:27
Paul and all the rest of the Christian martyrs will be resurrected at Jesus' Return, Revelation 20:4 But the rest of all the dead, Christian or ungodly, are not raised until the GWT judgement at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:5 & 11-14
Any theory or belief other than this is unscriptural.

That would be the body that sleeps in the grave. I was asking about a Christian's soul where it goes when when a Christian dies.

Moses and Elijah were there on the Mt. of Transfiguration, not in the grave.

Jesus in his resurrected body, the first fruits, ascended to heaven in Act 1:9 disappearing into a cloud.
We in our season, the resurrection/rapture in 1thessalonians4:15-18, them who are dead rise first, followed by the translation of them who are alive, to meet them in the clouds, and then meet Jesus in the air.... to go to heaven with the Lord, as Jesus did in Acts .... and to return to earth with Him, when the Lord returns at his Second Coming.

 

[Riberra]

We in our season, the resurrection/rapture in 1thessalonians4:15-18, them who are dead rise first, followed by the translation of them who are alive, to meet them in the clouds, and then meet Jesus in the air.... to go to heaven with the Lord, as Jesus did in Acts .... and to return to earth with Him, when the Lord returns at his Second Coming.

There is no going to Heaven after the reurrection/rapture and a return to the Earth 7 years later mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18.... you have "inconsciously" added it to the text....Think about it !

 

[Douggg]

Can you explain why John saw only the SOULS of DEAD believers in Heaven in His VISION ?Souls are not resurrected yet.
John saw no humans in their resurrected/changed bodies in Heaven ....but , only their SOULS .

There must be a reason that John saw only the resurrected bodies of the martyrs reunited with their souls to reign (the 12 apostles Matthew 19:28) and the other martyrs being priests with Jesus HERE on the EARTH (Revelation 20:4-5)....Think about it !!!

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

John saw souls, slain during the great tribulation. Which in the view that the rapture takes place before then, all of them slain during the great tribulation would not be in resurrected bodies.

Some say John's translation, into the spirit, taken to heaven in the first couple of verses in Revelation 4 is John experiencing what the rapture will be like. It seems very likely to me. In which case, John himself would represent the raptured saints. John ate the little scroll and it gave him an sour stomach, so he was there in some sort of body, yes ?

The 7 years issue is not what I am pushing. I am anytime rapture, to take place anytime before the persecution begins following the setting up of the AOD to be worshiped.

 

[iamlamad]

I have given proof that Jesus refutes any rapture. The rapture to heaven idea is simply impossible.

So right!
This is exactly what all you pre trib rapturestists, do.
Because you cannot provide any scripture that clearly says God will take His people to heaven, you add to verses like John 14:1-5 and 1 Thess 4:15-16 to say that. BOTH scriptures state clearly that what happens then, is as Jesus DESCENDS from heaven.
Lamad, and all who grip onto being raptured outta here, you are Christian brothers, you will be saved, 'as only by passing thru fire: 1 Corinthians 3:15 But, You will have to bear the loss, caused by your teaching of false doctrines. James 3:1

You are going to be SO SHOCKED when your "impossible" takes place. However, you will only get to see it, not participate.

You forgot the words of Jesus: "With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."

I have an idea: why not just believe John 14: that Jesus went to heaven to prepare HOMES in heaven. That is what a normal reading tells us. And that He will come back, get those watching for Him and take them to the places prepared. I have not done it, but my guess is, if we let 11 5th graders read this passage, they would all come to the same conclusion.

Do you believe Peter?
1 Peter 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Do you believe Hebrews?
Hebrews 12:22
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Hebrews 11:
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Do you believe Paul?
Colossians 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;


John 13:36
Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
WHERE did Simon Peter follow Jesus?

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
WHERE did they come from?

Jesus said our reward is in heaven. I guess you will not get to see yours.

 

[Riberra]

John saw souls, slain during the great tribulation. Which in the view that the rapture takes place before then, all of them slain during the great tribulation would not be in resurrected bodies.

Some say John's translation, into the spirit, taken to heaven in the first couple of verses in Revelation 4 is John experiencing what the rapture will be like. It seems very likely to me.

John saw the souls of those beheaded by the Antichrist only in Revelation 15 NOT in Revelation 6:9 at the opening of the 5 Th seal.

Revelation 15King (KJV)

15 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

 

[iamlamad]

'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8

No waiting

It is refreshing to hear TRUTH, amidst all this drivel.

 

[iamlamad]

Paul stated in Acts that he believed there shall be one resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

Right: one for the just and one for the unjust.

Why don't you just believe John in Rev. 20? Or do you just spiritualize it away?