Philosophical arguments against the existence of God

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well maybe I should ask this.

Are all the atheists who affirm that Tacitus and Josephus are reliable extra biblical sources for the historicity of Jesus, intellectually dishonest?

Is that what you want to tell me?

Or are there some, unlike Ehrman who you now claim is intellectually dishonest, who you think are intellectually honest?

I actually created a thread sometime back concerning Josephus if you and others are interested:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/is-josephus-considered-a-reliable-historian.7033640/
Is Josephus considered a reliable Historian?

Is Josephus considered a reliable historian and could YAHWEH have used him to record the Last Days events upon the OC Jewish Nation and Temple as described in the Olivet Discourse?
Below is some of the rather "bizarre" things that is recorded in his writings

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,​

if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."​

(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)​

Our Lord proceeded, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [6]- Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.............*snip*

Such are the prodigies related by Josephus, and which, excepting the first, he places in the Year immediately preceding the Jewish war.
Several of them are recorded also by Tacitus.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7593926/
Josephus's sights and signs 1st century...did these really occur?





.

 

[anonymous person]

If Davian insisted that you believe he was married, but his wife was only "present" in this way, what would you say?

I would say "I believe you Davian."

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I would say "I believe you Davian."

And if information came to light that cast doubt on Davian's claim - information showing that he had never been married - and yet he continued to insist that you believe him?

 

[anonymous person]

And if information came to light that cast doubt on Davian's claim - information showing that he had never been married - and yet he continued to insist that you believe him?

Then I guess I would seek clarification from him.

 

[bhsmte]

Personal, immediate, spiritual.

Can the above experiences be fallible?

 

[bhsmte]

Then I guess I would seek clarification from him.

And if he keeps telling you the same thing, but you have outside information that you verified that goes against what he said, would you still believe him?

 

[anonymous person]

Can the above experiences be fallible?

I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

 

[anonymous person]

And if he keeps telling you the same thing, but you have outside information that you verified that goes against what he said, would you still believe him?

No.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

fal·li·ble
ˈfaləb(ə)l/
adjective

1. capable of making mistakes or being erroneous.
   "experts can be fallible"
   synonyms: error-prone, errant, liable to err, open to error; More
   

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

fal·li·ble
ˈfaləb(ə)l/
adjective

1. capable of making mistakes or being erroneous.
   "experts can be fallible"
   synonyms: error-prone, errant, liable to err, open to error; More

To err is human........

Jer 23:32
Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness;
yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

But there is a remedy:

Jas 5:
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover over a multitude of sins.


.

 

[anonymous person]

fal·li·ble
ˈfaləb(ə)l/
adjective

1. capable of making mistakes or being erroneous.
   "experts can be fallible"
   synonyms: error-prone, errant, liable to err, open to error; More

Sure.

It is possible that my experiences are fallible.

 

[HitchSlap]

You know your wife exists because you have at times been in her immediate and personal presence and communicated with her either audibly or inaudibly.

Notice, I was asked how I "know" something exists, not how I "show" something exists.

I asked how you know your interpretation of your experiences were correct. I'm essentially asking you to offer objective evidence for a relationship with a ghost.
You are commiting false equivalency fallacy. If asked to introduce you to my wife, who I claim exists, I could do so. Could you introduce us to this ghost, or just expect us to take it on face value?

 

[anonymous person]

I asked how you know your interpretation of your experiences were correct. I'm essentially asking you to offer objective evidence for a relationship with a ghost.
You are commiting false equivalency fallacy. If asked to introduce you to my wife, who I claim exists, I could do so. Could you introduce us to this ghost, or just expect us to take it on face value?

The fruit of the Spirit is produced in my life. The experiences I have cause certain things to be produced in me. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, meekness, humility, selflessness and self control among others.

Before Christ was my Lord, I did not produce these things. Now, the more I spend in God's awesome presence and in His word, the more I become like Him.

Ask and you shall receive.

And yes I can introduce you to Christ. He is a person. Your willingness to meet Him on His terms is of course a prerequisite.

 

[HitchSlap]

The fruit of the Spirit is produced in my life. The experiences I have cause certain things to be produced in me. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, meekness, humility, selflessness and self control among others.

Before Christ was my Lord, I did not produce these things. Now, the more I spend in God's awesome presence and in His word, the more I become like Him.

Ask and you shall receive.

And yes I can introduce you to Christ. He is a person. Your willingness to meet Him on His terms is of course a prerequisite.

Yet, I display all of those attributes in my life, yet I don't claim it's the influence of a ghost. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[Loudmouth]

The fruit of the Spirit is produced in my life. The experiences I have cause certain things to be produced in me. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, meekness, humility, selflessness and self control among others.

Where is the evidence that a ghost caused any of those things?

Before Christ was my Lord, I did not produce these things. Now, the more I spend in God's awesome presence and in His word, the more I become like Him.

A belief in a non-existent deity would produce the same results, as shown by other religions.

 

[anonymous person]

Yet, I display all of those attributes in my life, yet I don't claim it's the influence of a ghost. Don't sell yourself short.

Calvin wrote of the "common grace of God". Essentially, it is the idea that the unregenerate, though dead in trespasses and sin, still benefit in some measure from God's grace in that they have a functioning conscience albeit subject to the noetic effects of sin, and are able to exhibit those virtues such as have been aforementioned, to some degree.

IOW, I disagree with the notion that atheists can't live moral lives.

Nor should you compare yourself with me. I am not you. Before the love of God was shed abroad in my heart, I was quite the loveless bloke, hard-hearted and without hope in the world.

 

[anonymous person]

Where is the evidence that a ghost caused any of those things?

The Holy Spirit is a person. The Holy Spirit is God. I am not familiar with this ghost you speak ok.

A belief in a non-existent deity would produce the same results, as shown by other religions.

Reference my remarks on "common grace".

Note also, a tree is known by the fruit it bears. A man does not gather figs from thistles.

 

[Loudmouth]

The Holy Spirit is a person. The Holy Spirit is God. I am not familiar with this ghost you speak ok.

Where is your evidence that a deity caused any of the things that you are claiming?

Reference my remarks on "common grace".

Note also, a tree is known by the fruit it bears. A man does not gather figs from thistles.

Those are just claims. Have any evidence?

 

[anonymous person]

Where is your evidence that a deity caused any of the things that you are claiming?

Wherever I am and wherever those people are who have been impacted by the life and love of Christ that has been manifest in me and through me for all them that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[Loudmouth]

Wherever I am and wherever those people are who have been impacted by the life and love of Christ that has been manifest in me and through me for all them that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Please present evidence that they were impacted by a deity.