Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[Bryan G]

Are you open enough to believe Luther and Calvin were wrong? Today it would appear that Arab terrorism is the group that is the power that would cause the final conflict.

Your key word, "appear". Is everything always as it appears? Your letting yourself be fooled by the games of the papacy.

This is from a recent article:
In extraordinary scenes just before the pope's arrival, two pickup trucks pulled up in the middle of the crowd and a group of Muslims from PK5 leapt out, all wearing T-shirts bearing the pope's image.

As they pushed through the crowd in an area where Muslims usually do not dare to venture, people cheered and applauded, shouting: "It's over" in reference to the intercommunal hatred that has blighted the country since a 2013 coup.
Full article here:
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2015/12/01/Pope-Christians-and-Muslims-are-brothers

The families like the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers with their hundreds of billions of dollars would not let the muslims take over the world, this is all a smoke screen, to invoke fear. This is too big of a topic to go into here, but this fear that the the muslims create is just to help them push more laws that take away our rights, leading us deeper into slavery, working for the rich.
When the Holy Spirit is close with someone, they are not easily fooled, just say'n, think about that .

the 4th commandment explains about God leading the Israelites out of Egypt and He told them to honor it because of their escape Deut 5:15. Now lets get real when debating.

Your logic is extremely flawed, or you have none. If I remind you of your birth, when you came out of the womb, you had to take that first breath, but now your not coming out of the womb, so you don't have to breath anymore. Your logic is foolish.

Now lets get real when debating. You tell me then, why did Jesus keep the Sabbath if it was no longer valid? Tell me why his disciples keep the Sabbath even after Jesus died?

Yea, let's not only get real when debating, lets use some common sense, sheesh.

The 10 didn't even contain the law of love.

I'll break down the 10 commandments for you:
1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
--------------------------
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Commandments 1 through 4 are about loving and obeying God.
Commandments 5 through 10 are about loving your neighbor.

This is parallel to what Jesus said:
Matthew 22
37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [o]foremost commandment. [1 through 4] 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [5 through 10] 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

So, how do we know what we must do to follow those 2 commandments? By going back to the original 10.

Now lets get real when debating. This is logic, this is common sense. This is getting real.

By the way,maybe you are not aware but the Sabbath law was a ritual law as were all special Sabbaths. Morality has to do with God and our fellow man.

Sabbath was established in the garden of Eden, and was kept all through the Bible, even after Jesus died. Here is a verse from before the 10 commandments:
Exodus 16:22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD.

Then, these are from after Jesus died:
Acts 13:42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.
Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Acts 18:2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, 3 and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

There are ceremonial laws (Mosaic Law), and God’s written laws. The ceremonial laws were written by Moses, but the 10 commandments were written by God’s own finger and permanent.

Exodus 31:18 When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

And Jesus tells us they are to be kept as long as the earth exists, and being such pure laws, I know that they are eternal, forever…

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished.

Has all been accomplished? Heaven and earth did not pass away, we’re still here. This is what Jesus said, to deny it is to deny Christ.

The 7th day Sabbath was and is still the true Sabbath.

 

[Bryan G]

To try to say that just because Paul quotes one of the 10 to make his point is making the temporary 10 the Christians rule of guidance is pure ludicrous. If I were an old covenant law thumper I could quote Jesus in Matt 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth........ and tell everyone that because He quoted a verse from the book of the law we are all now under all of the book of the law. Again, it appears that you will go to any length to uphold your false prophets writings.

Lets make it clear Christians are not under Torah law. I know you didn't say we are, but you approved Buckirobs post.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Has all been accomplished? Heaven and earth did not pass away, we’re still here. This is what Jesus said, to deny it is to deny Christ.

But then again, you know more than Jesus, who as an example, who followed all the commandments. He repeated 9 of them, and kept the 4th, as did the disciples even after he died.

You made the choice to rebel against what God wrote, that's between you and God, but now you're here trying to convince others to do the same, that is going to come back to bite you hard. I wouldn't want to answer for that when Jesus returns...
You have a limited understanding of the Bible and the love of God, yet you come here and defame God's laws with confidence. You really should rethink what you're doing.

 

[Bryan G]

Paul, makes it clear... THOSE WHO RELY on the law.... people repeatedly try and FORCE Torah observance with an attempt to "earn" salvation and NOTHING could be further from the truth.

If by people, you mean Seventh-day Adventists, then you are clueless because they do not force anything and they know that you can't "earn" salvation. I know many SDA's, and they keep the commandments out of love, well, most do, there are extremists in all religions.
No one is "forcing" you, I think you just feel that way out of guilt, so you lash out, lash back.
Me, I walked away from organized religion when I was 14.
I keep the 10 commandments because the Holy Spirit convinced me of it when I was 13 yrs old, that is when I started thinking of leaving the Reformed Church of America, a good protestant church, but they would read the 10 commandments every service, even though that service was on Sunday, I saw hypocrisy in that.
Have I kept the commandments every day of my life, no, we are all sinners. But I do not dismiss them, with all my heart, I try to keep them, and want to, this is what will mater in the end. Because I love God, and I am so thankful for all he's done for me, I want to do what he asks of me, not because I'm scared I'll go to hell forever (there is another false teaching, read this), but because I love him and I see his laws as just.
Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns, and he's not going to check to see if you kept his commandments, he's going to look into your heart, and see if you tried to keep his commandment, among other things.
I started attending church again at the age of 40, and it's mostly the SDA church, because I see a people who love God and try to do his will, keep his commandments, out of love.
I've learned many things from many churches, but I've learned more about the Bible in the SDA church. Are they perfect? No, I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership, but I can't find a better church.
I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet, but as the people in the church say, you don't have to believe that. I don't believe in the "investigative judgment", again, they say I don't have to. I see no one in the church "forcing" anything on anyone.

If by "people" you did not mean SDA's, then I just did a whole lot of rambling for nothing and I apologize...

 

[Bob S]

If by people, you mean Seventh-day Adventists, then you are clueless because they do not force anything and they know that you can't "earn" salvation. I know many SDA's, and they keep the commandments out of love, well, most do, there are extremists in all religions.

It is true that most Adventists do not try to proselytize let alone "force" people. What is also true is that the church teaches that if we do not observe the Sabbath and pay tithe we will loose our eternal inheritance as per their revered prophet.

I keep the 10 commandments because the Holy Spirit convinced me of it when I was 13 yrs old, that is when I started thinking of leaving the Reformed Church of America, a good protestant church, but they would read the 10 commandments every service, even though that service was on Sunday, I saw hypocrisy in that.

You "keep" the 10? really, except for Jesus you should be hailed as the first. Seriously, I understand what you are trying to tell us. Why do you observe the 10 instead of the law of love?

Have I kept the commandments every day of my life, no, we are all sinners. But I do not dismiss them, with all my heart, I try to keep them, and want to, this is what will mater in the end. Because I love God, and I am so thankful for all he's done for me, I want to do what he asks of me, not because I'm scared I'll go to hell forever (there is another false teaching, read this), but because I love him and I see his laws as just.

I wonder why the Holy Spirit has guided you to observe the covenant given only to the Israelites, even thought they failed at most every point, all the while He has guided me to keep the law of love, part of the New Covenant given to Christians by Jesus and starting at the Cross when Jesus completed (finished) the old covenant.

Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns, and he's not going to check to see if you kept his commandments, he's going to look into your heart, and see if you tried to keep his commandment, among other things.

"Tried"? That surely smacks of works of the law. Have you ever studied the writings of Paul. Our "trying" is nothing but filthy rags. We are saved by Grace alone without the works of the law. Read John 5:24 and John 3:16. Jesus told the parable of the workers who all received the same pay. One guy came the last hour of the work day. What truth do you think he was giving?

I started attending church again at the age of 40, and it's mostly the SDA church, because I see a people who love God and try to do his will, keep his commandments, out of love.

And I spent 40 years in the SDA church. During the last 5 years I started seeing cracks in the foundation. The doctrines are not sound. I have many wonderful SDA friends that as you say are very loving and "try'' to do right. They are great people, but like so many other churches like the LDS and JWs have unsound doctrines. Unsound to the extent that I could not support their cause. I go to church with people who love God and understand that they are sinners saved by the Grace of Jesus. We live by the principle of loving our fellow man as Jesus loves us,. the greatest of all commands.

I've learned many things from many churches, but I've learned more about the Bible in the SDA church. Are they perfect? No, I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership, but I can't find a better church.

I am happy for you. Have you studied any of the writings of the revered prophet? Many doctrines are because of her and not the Bible.

I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet, but as the people in the church say, you don't have to believe that. I don't believe in the "investigative judgment", again, they say I don't have to. I see no one in the church "forcing" anything on anyone.

Do you support the church? If you do then you are spreading Ellen White to unsuspecting people. I would say that hardly anyone knows what she wrote. Hardly any SDA lives by her council yet the church holds her writings equal to the Bible. It would behoove you to visit the former SDA web sites. Yes, the SDAs will tell you they are all false and from Babylon. If you were LDS or JWs they would tell you the same thing. The church does not want any of the flock to see the other side. If they truly have the real truth they wouldn't try to keep you from reading thoughts of others. Could it be they are afraid you might just find God's real plan for your life?

If by "people" you did not mean SDA's, then I just did a whole lot of rambling for nothing and I apologize...

 

[BukiRob]

Sure, you keep the sabbath and break the rest of the nine. Is that how it works?

No actually the 4th commandment is to keep the Sabbath holy... its those who do not observe it who are breaking it

 

[BukiRob]

If by people, you mean Seventh-day Adventists, then you are clueless because they do not force anything and they know that you can't "earn" salvation. I know many SDA's, and they keep the commandments out of love, well, most do, there are extremists in all religions.
No one is "forcing" you, I think you just feel that way out of guilt, so you lash out, lash back.
Me, I walked away from organized religion when I was 14.
I keep the 10 commandments because the Holy Spirit convinced me of it when I was 13 yrs old, that is when I started thinking of leaving the Reformed Church of America, a good protestant church, but they would read the 10 commandments every service, even though that service was on Sunday, I saw hypocrisy in that.
Have I kept the commandments every day of my life, no, we are all sinners. But I do not dismiss them, with all my heart, I try to keep them, and want to, this is what will mater in the end. Because I love God, and I am so thankful for all he's done for me, I want to do what he asks of me, not because I'm scared I'll go to hell forever (there is another false teaching, read this), but because I love him and I see his laws as just.
Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns, and he's not going to check to see if you kept his commandments, he's going to look into your heart, and see if you tried to keep his commandment, among other things.
I started attending church again at the age of 40, and it's mostly the SDA church, because I see a people who love God and try to do his will, keep his commandments, out of love.
I've learned many things from many churches, but I've learned more about the Bible in the SDA church. Are they perfect? No, I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership, but I can't find a better church.
I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet, but as the people in the church say, you don't have to believe that. I don't believe in the "investigative judgment", again, they say I don't have to. I see no one in the church "forcing" anything on anyone.

If by "people" you did not mean SDA's, then I just did a whole lot of rambling for nothing and I apologize...

Your last sentence is applicable

 

[tulipbee]

No actually the 4th commandment is to keep the Sabbath holy... its those who do not observe it who are breaking it

And they have the seal of the devil on thier forheads according to the fringe SDA. Way off the mark

 

[Bryan G]

It is true that most Adventists do not try to proselytize let alone "force" people. What is also true is that the church teaches that if we do not observe the Sabbath and pay tithe we will loose our eternal inheritance as per their revered prophet.

That is a total lie, you just lost all credibility with me and shown everyone how misguided and hateful you are.

You "keep" the 10? really, except for Jesus you should be hailed as the first. Seriously, I understand what you are trying to tell us. Why do you observe the 10 instead of the law of love?

It's 10 little easy rules. I understand why you would think it's impossible, I can see from your posts you are full of hate, you are mean and arrogant, at least you come off that way to people reading your posts. The 10 commandments is the law of love.
I already showed this to you once, I'll do it again.

Commandments 1 through 4 are about loving and obeying God.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. (I have no other Gods, this one is easy)
   
2. You shall not make idols. (I do not worship any idols, another easy one)
   
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. (I did not take his name in vain, at least today, and what's in the past is forgiven)
   
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (I keep the Sabbath, another easy one)

————————–
Commandments 5 through 10 are about loving your neighbor.

1. Honor your father and your mother. (When I was young I didn't always keep this, but I do now)
   
2. You shall not murder. (I've never killed anyone, or wished anyone dead, easy)
   
3. You shall not commit adultery. (I've never even looked at another women since I've been married)
   
4. You shall not steal. (I conquered this one when I became an adult)
   
5. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (this one I have not done as far back as I can remember, harder though)
   
6. You shall not covet. (This one is easy, I'm happy with what the lord has given me, and when I see others with things I like, I'm happy for them)

This is parallel to what Jesus said:

Matthew 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. [1 through 4] 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [5 through 10] 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
So, how do we know what we must do to follow those 2 commandments? By going back to the original 10.

I pity you, you act as though it's impossible, but Jesus says to keep his commandments, so you think Jesus is a liar, you are truly lost...

I wonder why the Holy Spirit has guided you to observe the covenant given only to the Israelites, even thought they failed at most every point, all the while He has guided me to keep the law of love, part of the New Covenant given to Christians by Jesus and starting at the Cross when Jesus completed (finished) the old covenant.

This has nothing to do with the new covenant, tell how that matters? Do you think now that Jesus died on the cross it's okay to steal? Lie? Commit adultery? Murder? Wow, you are one lost person, thinking that it's okay now to do all these horrible things just because Jesus died for your sins.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished.
So tell me, where does your Bible say that we can now break the commandments of God, seriously, tell me, because Jesus repeated 9 of the commandments, then showed by example that the Sabbath is still to be kept.

"Tried"? That surely smacks of works of the law. Have you ever studied the writings of Paul. Our "trying" is nothing but filthy rags. We are saved by Grace alone without the works of the law. Read John 5:24 and John 3:16. Jesus told the parable of the workers who all received the same pay. One guy came the last hour of the work day. What truth do you think he was giving?

I'll ask this, do you think that you shouldn't at least try? So you think it's okay to just give up and sin? You are foolish to think you should just do as you want, murder, steal, commit adultery, lie, cheat, dishonor your parents, and so on... Only a fool would think like this.

And I spent 40 years in the SDA church. During the last 5 years I started seeing cracks in the foundation. The doctrines are not sound. I have many wonderful SDA friends that as you say are very loving and "try'' to do right. They are great people, but like so many other churches like the LDS and JWs have unsound doctrines. Unsound to the extent that I could not support their cause. I go to church with people who love God and understand that they are sinners saved by the Grace of Jesus. We live by the principle of loving our fellow man as Jesus loves us,. the greatest of all commands.

I don't care about any church, as I said before, when Jesus returns he's not going to ask for my membership papers. I am a Christian first, I follow Christ, a protestant second, and it stops there.

I am happy for you. Have you studied any of the writings of the revered prophet? Many doctrines are because of her and not the Bible.

No, there is no need to study her writings, the Bible is all I need. I have heard of many of her writings from others, and have not heard anything wrong, but also, I haven't heard anything from her that makes any difference in my relationship with God. It does bother me how many SDA's put her writings before the Bible, but the ones in my local church don't. I'm not going to judge her as I don't know enough, and I never will, because I feel no need to read anything from her.

Do you support the church? If you do then you are spreading Ellen White to unsuspecting people. I would say that hardly anyone knows what she wrote. Hardly any SDA lives by her council yet the church holds her writings equal to the Bible. It would behoove you to visit the former SDA web sites. Yes, the SDAs will tell you they are all false and from Babylon. If you were LDS or JWs they would tell you the same thing. The church does not want any of the flock to see the other side. If they truly have the real truth they wouldn't try to keep you from reading thoughts of others. Could it be they are afraid you might just find God's real plan for your life?

Where did I ever say I was a SDA???
You spent all this time replying to my post, but I don't think you even read it all, if you did you would have read "I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet,........ I don't believe in the "investigative judgment"..........."
I never quote Ellen White, I've never read her writings, and never plan to, but as far as reading others books like you seem to think you need, I do NOT read any books on the Bible or religion, I don't need more than the Bible, if you were close to God, you'd know this. The Bible is all you need, there is no need to look for answers elsewhere. I do discuss the Bible with others, and learn with them, but through discussion, not reading someone elses thoughts.
I even said this "I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership", it amazes me how hard you work to attack me, when you didn't even read what I said. All I said is they follow the Bible closer than any other church I've found. I don't know what goes on in all SDA churches, but the local one I go to often is full of good loving people who put the Bible first, and that is what I focus on, my local church. The General conference said that they will not make a change in ordination of women, but the North American Division made a statement in effect than they will not follow that and will keep the ordained women they have, and ordain more. This alone shows me they are in apostasy, it's not right, and as a whole, I think the church is lost, so I look for the good people to associate with, and speak out against the bad, in all churches, like Joel Osteen, Kenneth Koplan and so many more evil false leaders.
I even made it a point to say that I don't care about any church, I said "Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns"
I know these are the end times, set aside all the evil going on today, all I have to do is look at how life was for the past 5,900 years, then look at the past 100. We've lived the same for all that time, the biggest inventions were the sword and the wheel, then all of the sudden, boom, from that to what we have today. When it talked about an increase of knowledge in Danial, people had no idea what that really meant, and now that we're here, no one pays attention...
The Bible has proven itself to be true in so many ways.

I will finish with this. When I was about 17 I realized that people can't go to heaven when they die, you have to be judged worthy, and that day of judgment has not come. I also refused to believe that a God of love would send anyone into suffering for eternity. I have recently found scripture to back this up, and the only church I know that understands these things to be true, is the SDA church, that is why I attend their church, because they have more truth than any other church I know. Other churches want you to believe in eternity in hell to scare you, this helps them brainwash you.

 

[Bob S]

That is a total lie, you just lost all credibility with me and shown everyone how misguided and hateful you are.

Wow! Total lie when you admitted you have never read Ellen Whites' writings? You have no idea what the church really believes. They revere Ellen and her writings. They hold her writings as being equal to scripture and indeed she did state that we will lose our eternal inheritance if we do not pay a faithful tithe and do not "keep" the Sabbath. The church believes this. You may have not heard it yet, but you said you are not a member, so how could you know everything? Sorry to get you so infuriated that you would say that I am hateful and misguided and furthermore have no credibility. Even more sorry for you that you would come unglued when you have never studied the facts about the "Spirit of Prophesy" and yet would try to defend those who should never be defended.

Read your own post again and then critique my post once more. I am only pointing out many things you have already observed about the church. For that I am hateful. You should be grateful that someone has the interest in helping good people see the real light. I know I am not perfect and I have not nor will I ever judge a person, that is not my MOS. I am allowed by scripture to judge the fruits of a church that teaches falsehood.

 

[Bob S]

Wow! Total lie when you admitted you have never read Ellen Whites' writings? You have no idea what the church really believes. They revere Ellen and her writings. They hold her writings as being equal to scripture and indeed she did state that we will lose our eternal inheritance if we do not pay a faithful tithe and do not "keep" the Sabbath. The church believes this. You may have not heard it yet, but you said you are not a member, so how could you know everything? Sorry to get you so infuriated that you would say that I am hateful and misguided and furthermore have no credibility. Even more sorry for you that you would come unglued when you have never studied the facts about the "Spirit of Prophesy" and yet would try to defend those who should never be defended.

Read your own post again and then critique my post once more. I am only pointing out many things you have already observed about the church. For that I am hateful. You should be grateful that someone has the interest in helping good people see the real light. I know I am not perfect and I have not nor will I ever judge a person, that is not my MOS. I am allowed by scripture to judge the fruits of a church that teaches falsehood.

I would like to address Matt 5:17 and what it really means. I see it has been quoted many times in the discussions and is used to try to make it clear that we are still under the law, especially the Sabbath law. Most all who have used this verse fail to highlight the last for words "until all is finished". The verse says not one jot or one tittle will pass from the LAW (Torah) until ALL is finished or completed. Not one jot means that the follower of the law is subject to all of the old covenant law (Torah). All means 613 laws as counted by some Israelite scholars. Yet you certainly have not advocated that all the law be kept. SDAs pick and choose a few of the 613. Others only use lip service, but never actually have studied the verse as to its meaning. Either it is all binding on us or it has all been fulfilled. The verse leaves no other choice.

 

[bugkiller]

Your key word, "appear". Is everything always as it appears? Your letting yourself be fooled by the games of the papacy.

This is from a recent article:
In extraordinary scenes just before the pope's arrival, two pickup trucks pulled up in the middle of the crowd and a group of Muslims from PK5 leapt out, all wearing T-shirts bearing the pope's image.

As they pushed through the crowd in an area where Muslims usually do not dare to venture, people cheered and applauded, shouting: "It's over" in reference to the intercommunal hatred that has blighted the country since a 2013 coup.
Full article here:
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2015/12/01/Pope-Christians-and-Muslims-are-brothers

The families like the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers with their hundreds of billions of dollars would not let the muslims take over the world, this is all a smoke screen, to invoke fear. This is too big of a topic to go into here, but this fear that the the muslims create is just to help them push more laws that take away our rights, leading us deeper into slavery, working for the rich.
When the Holy Spirit is close with someone, they are not easily fooled, just say'n, think about that .


Your logic is extremely flawed, or you have none. If I remind you of your birth, when you came out of the womb, you had to take that first breath, but now your not coming out of the womb, so you don't have to breath anymore. Your logic is foolish.

Now lets get real when debating. You tell me then, why did Jesus keep the Sabbath if it was no longer valid? Tell me why his disciples keep the Sabbath even after Jesus died?

Yea, let's not only get real when debating, lets use some common sense, sheesh.

I'll break down the 10 commandments for you:
1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
--------------------------
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Commandments 1 through 4 are about loving and obeying God.
Commandments 5 through 10 are about loving your neighbor.

This is parallel to what Jesus said:
Matthew 22
37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [o]foremost commandment. [1 through 4] 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [5 through 10] 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

So, how do we know what we must do to follow those 2 commandments? By going back to the original 10.

Now lets get real when debating. This is logic, this is common sense. This is getting real.


Sabbath was established in the garden of Eden, and was kept all through the Bible, even after Jesus died. Here is a verse from before the 10 commandments:
Exodus 16:22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD.

Your proof text please. The Sabbath isn't even mentioned until Ex 16.

Then, these are from after Jesus died:
Acts 13:42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.
Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Acts 18:2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, 3 and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

This isn't proof Paul kept the Sabbath. Please quote the passage stating Priscilla and Aquila went to the synagogue.

There are ceremonial laws (Mosaic Law), and God’s written laws. The ceremonial laws were written by Moses, but the 10 commandments were written by God’s own finger and permanent.

So what. Read Jer 31:31-33. The 10 Cs are called the law as in the Mosaic law.

Exodus 31:18 When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

And Jesus tells us they are to be kept as long as the earth exists, and being such pure laws, I know that they are eternal, forever…

Nope!!!!

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished.

Has all been accomplished? Heaven and earth did not pass away, we’re still here. This is what Jesus said, to deny it is to deny Christ.

Please read Lk 24:44 where Jesus gives a more full explanation.

The 7th day Sabbath was and is still the true Sabbath.

Yeppers!!!

Your key word, "appear". Is everything always as it appears? Your letting yourself be fooled by the games of the papacy.

Fooled by the papacy, EGW or just plain read the Bible?

This is from a recent article:
In extraordinary scenes just before the pope's arrival, two pickup trucks pulled up in the middle of the crowd and a group of Muslims from PK5 leapt out, all wearing T-shirts bearing the pope's image.

As they pushed through the crowd in an area where Muslims usually do not dare to venture, people cheered and applauded, shouting: "It's over" in reference to the intercommunal hatred that has blighted the country since a 2013 coup.
Full article here:
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2015/12/01/Pope-Christians-and-Muslims-are-brothers

The families like the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers with their hundreds of billions of dollars would not let the muslims take over the world, this is all a smoke screen, to invoke fear. This is too big of a topic to go into here, but this fear that the the muslims create is just to help them push more laws that take away our rights, leading us deeper into slavery, working for the rich.

Now you're onto something.

When the Holy Spirit is close with someone, they are not easily fooled, just say'n, think about that .

Yeppers, you're right on there. I'm not fooled by your SDA view point.

Your logic is extremely flawed, or you have none. If I remind you of your birth, when you came out of the womb, you had to take that first breath, but now your not coming out of the womb, so you don't have to breath anymore. Your logic is foolish.

Why would you do that. One already knows they were born. However it would be another story if you were told to remember my birthday of which you know nothing about. Telling you to celebrate my birthday would make it important to you only after being informed. Moses said very clearly no one prior to leaving Egypt was told about or required to keep the Sabbath.

Now lets get real when debating. You tell me then, why did Jesus keep the Sabbath if it was no longer valid? Tell me why his disciples keep the Sabbath even after Jesus died?

That's easy. Jesus was a Jew and required to keep the Sabbath. No gentile was so required.

Yea, let's not only get real when debating, lets use some common sense, sheesh.

I'll break down the 10 commandments for you:
1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
--------------------------
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Commandments 1 through 4 are about loving and obeying God.
Commandments 5 through 10 are about loving your neighbor.

This is parallel to what Jesus said:
Matthew 22
37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [o]foremost commandment. [1 through 4] 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [5 through 10] 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

So, how do we know what we must do to follow those 2 commandments? By going back to the original 10.

Now lets get real when debating. This is logic, this is common sense. This is getting real.


Sabbath was established in the garden of Eden, and was kept all through the Bible, even after Jesus died. Here is a verse from before the 10 commandments:
Exodus 16:22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD.

The personal statement made here is SDA unsubstantiated rhetoric. There's nothing in the Bible showing the Sabbath was created in Eden.

Then, these are from after Jesus died:
Acts 13:42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.
Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Acts 18:2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, 3 and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Please see prior post.]
There are ceremonial laws (Mosaic Law), and God’s written laws. The ceremonial laws were written by Moses, but the 10 commandments were written by God’s own finger and permanent.

The 7th day Sabbath is purely a ceremonial event. All celebrations are ceremonial.

Exodus 31:18 When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

And Jesus tells us they are to be kept as long as the earth exists, and being such pure laws, I know that they are eternal, forever…

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished.

Has all been accomplished? Heaven and earth did not pass away, we’re still here. This is what Jesus said, to deny it is to deny Christ.

Please read Lk 24:44.]

The 7th day Sabbath was and is still the true Sabbath.

Yeppers!!!!!! and it has no bearing on the Christian for salvation or requirement.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So are you now worried about your position in heaven?

Has all been accomplished?

Yeppers!!!!!!

Heaven and earth did not pass away, we’re still here.

So what. The verse is being misued because the rest of the even the Gospels aren't believed as true.

This is what Jesus said, to deny it is to deny Christ.

Nope!! you're trying to manipulate and enforce an out of date law per Gal 3.

But then again, you know more than Jesus, who as an example, who followed all the commandments. He repeated 9 of them, and kept the 4th, as did the disciples even after he died.

Nope!!! Read about Paul's dressing down Peter for living like a gentile in Galatians.

You made the choice to rebel against what God wrote, that's between you and God, but now you're here trying to convince others to do the same, that is going to come back to bite you hard. I wouldn't want to answer for that when Jesus returns...

Nope!!! I made the choice to accept God's free gift you want others to earn. My Bible says your earnings are death. No one can obligate God.

You have a limited understanding of the Bible and the love of God, yet you come here and defame God's laws with confidence. You really should rethink what you're doing.

Maybe you should consider actually reading what the Bible says instead of what your religion teaches about the Bible.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If by people, you mean Seventh-day Adventists, then you are clueless because they do not force anything and they know that you can't "earn" salvation. I know many SDA's, and they keep the commandments out of love, well, most do, there are extremists in all religions.
No one is "forcing" you, I think you just feel that way out of guilt, so you lash out, lash back.

This is clear bull.

SDA try to force the issue with John 14:15 while completely disregarding 15:10.

Then SDA usually quote Rev 22:14:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

On using this verse they claim if one doesn't keep the 7th day Sabbath they can't eat from the tree of life (read have no salvation as they believe0.
Me, I walked away from organized religion when I was 14.
I keep the 10 commandments because the Holy Spirit convinced me of it when I was 13 yrs old, that is when I started thinking of leaving the Reformed Church of America, a good protestant church, but they would read the 10 commandments every service, even though that service was on Sunday, I saw hypocrisy in that.
Have I kept the commandments every day of my life, no, we are all sinners. But I do not dismiss them, with all my heart, I try to keep them, and want to, this is what will mater in the end. Because I love God, and I am so thankful for all he's done for me, I want to do what he asks of me, not because I'm scared I'll go to hell forever (there is another false teaching, read this), but because I love him and I see his laws as just. [/quote]Sorry but this isn't what the Bible says even before the days of Jesus on the earth. That is also prior too Paul. The Holy Spirit did nothing of the sort. I'd be more careful what I attribute to God if I were you. No one can keep the law and be a sinner (violator). The death of Jesus on the cross is being invalidated here. Salvation only comes through Jesus as He said in John 10.

Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns, and he's not going to check to see if you kept his commandments, he's going to look into your heart, and see if you tried to keep his commandment, among other things.

Where do you get this? Bet its from your religious source.

I started attending church again at the age of 40, and it's mostly the SDA church, because I see a people who love God and try to do his will, keep his commandments, out of love.

So you're still fooled.

I've learned many things from many churches, but I've learned more about the Bible in the SDA church. Are they perfect? No, I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership, but I can't find a better church.

You've learned about their religion and not the Bible. That may be true about your church (read religion). You're clearly evangelizing here against the rules.

I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet, but as the people in the church say, you don't have to believe that. I don't believe in the "investigative judgment", again, they say I don't have to. I see no one in the church "forcing" anything on anyone.

Stand up for the truth instead of being a quiet go-along-johnny for social purposes and say this. If you're a member you state to the world you believe what they teach.

If by "people" you did not mean SDA's, then I just did a whole lot of rambling for nothing and I apologize...

Naw I think we have you properly identified.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It is true that most Adventists do not try to proselytize let alone "force" people. What is also true is that the church teaches that if we do not observe the Sabbath and pay tithe we will loose our eternal inheritance as per their revered prophet.

My neighbor tried for 10 long years. Finally had to tell them to not come to my house again. Oh and BTW so has every other SDA contact. They get violent as a rule when you want to discuss the Bible with them.

You "keep" the 10? really, except for Jesus you should be hailed as the first. Seriously, I understand what you are trying to tell us. Why do you observe the 10 instead of the law of love?

More smiles here. You're correct and agree with the Psalms.

I wonder why the Holy Spirit has guided you to observe the covenant given only to the Israelites, even thought they failed at most every point, all the while He has guided me to keep the law of love, part of the New Covenant given to Christians by Jesus and starting at the Cross when Jesus completed (finished) the old covenant.


"Tried"? That surely smacks of works of the law. Have you ever studied the writings of Paul. Our "trying" is nothing but filthy rags. We are saved by Grace alone without the works of the law. Read John 5:24 and John 3:16. Jesus told the parable of the workers who all received the same pay. One guy came the last hour of the work day. What truth do you think he was giving?


And I spent 40 years in the SDA church. During the last 5 years I started seeing cracks in the foundation. The doctrines are not sound. I have many wonderful SDA friends that as you say are very loving and "try'' to do right. They are great people, but like so many other churches like the LDS and JWs have unsound doctrines. Unsound to the extent that I could not support their cause. I go to church with people who love God and understand that they are sinners saved by the Grace of Jesus. We live by the principle of loving our fellow man as Jesus loves us,. the greatest of all commands.

I am happy for you. Have you studied any of the writings of the revered prophet? Many doctrines are because of her and not the Bible.

Do you support the church? If you do then you are spreading Ellen White to unsuspecting people. I would say that hardly anyone knows what she wrote. Hardly any SDA lives by her council yet the church holds her writings equal to the Bible. It would behoove you to visit the former SDA web sites. Yes, the SDAs will tell you they are all false and from Babylon. If you were LDS or JWs they would tell you the same thing. The church does not want any of the flock to see the other side. If they truly have the real truth they wouldn't try to keep you from reading thoughts of others. Could it be they are afraid you might just find God's real plan for your life?

Yep.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No actually the 4th commandment is to keep the Sabbath holy... its those who do not observe it who are breaking it

Please read Ex 20:8-11. Well for that matter read all the commandments.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That is a total lie, you just lost all credibility with me and shown everyone how misguided and hateful you are.

You need to be reminded of Rev 22:14. Its an out right claim others don't possess salvation unless they keep the 7th day Sabbath. Unfortunately you and John are talking about different sets of commandments as easily identified in I John 3:23 and John 15:10.

It's 10 little easy rules. I understand why you would think it's impossible, I can see from your posts you are full of hate, you are mean and arrogant, at least you come off that way to people reading your posts. The 10 commandments is the law of love.
I already showed this to you once, I'll do it again.

If its merely ten little easy rules why is you don't keep them, especially the 4th as its written.? Sure everyone who doesn't agree with you and take your view point as their own is hateful. What a manipulative ploy to force keeping a dead law. Romans 6 and 7.

.
Commandments 1 through 4 are about loving and obeying God.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. (I have no other Gods, this one is easy)
   
2. You shall not make idols. (I do not worship any idols, another easy one)
   
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. (I did not take his name in vain, at least today, and what's in the past is forgiven)
   
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (I keep the Sabbath, another easy one)

————————–
Commandments 5 through 10 are about loving your neighbor.

1. Honor your father and your mother. (When I was young I didn't always keep this, but I do now)
   
2. You shall not murder. (I've never killed anyone, or wished anyone dead, easy)
   
3. You shall not commit adultery. (I've never even looked at another women since I've been married)
   
4. You shall not steal. (I conquered this one when I became an adult)
   
5. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (this one I have not done as far back as I can remember, harder though)
   
6. You shall not covet. (This one is easy, I'm happy with what the lord has given me, and when I see others with things I like, I'm happy for them)

This is parallel to what Jesus said:

Matthew 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. [1 through 4] 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [5 through 10] 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
So, how do we know what we must do to follow those 2 commandments? By going back to the original 10.

I pity you, you act as though it's impossible, but Jesus says to keep his commandments, so you think Jesus is a liar, you are truly lost...

No I believe even the Psalms.

This has nothing to do with the new covenant, tell how that matters? Do you think now that Jesus died on the cross it's okay to steal? Lie? Commit adultery? Murder? Wow, you are one lost person, thinking that it's okay now to do all these horrible things just because Jesus died for your sins.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OR STROKE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until all is accomplished.
So tell me, where does your Bible say that we can now break the commandments of God, seriously, tell me, because Jesus repeated 9 of the commandments, then showed by example that the Sabbath is still to be kept.

Sin was before the law. Rom 5:13 and Gal 3. Here you're not asking us to keep the law but refrain from sin. There are many unregenerate who don't steal, lie, commit adultery, etc. Yet these people aren't keeping the law (read possess salvation).

I'll ask this, do you think that you shouldn't at least try? So you think it's okay to just give up and sin? You are foolish to think you should just do as you want, murder, steal, commit adultery, lie, cheat, dishonor your parents, and so on... Only a fool would think like this.

Do you think for a NYC split second the Holy Spirit would lead you to sin? Why is being led by the Holy Spirit contrasted with being lead by the law in Gal 5:18?

I don't care about any church, as I said before, when Jesus returns he's not going to ask for my membership papers. I am a Christian first, I follow Christ, a protestant second, and it stops there.

Please explain how the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus isn't suffienct for salvation. Your claim is we must also keep the law which the Bible says there are none.

No, there is no need to study her writings, the Bible is all I need. I have heard of many of her writings from others, and have not heard anything wrong, but also, I haven't heard anything from her that makes any difference in my relationship with God. It does bother me how many SDA's put her writings before the Bible, but the ones in my local church don't. I'm not going to judge her as I don't know enough, and I never will, because I feel no need to read anything from her.

Say that to someone who's not paying attention nor knows anything about what she teaches.

Where did I ever say I was a SDA???
You spent all this time replying to my post, but I don't think you even read it all, if you did you would have read "I'm not convinced Ellen W. was a prophet,........ I don't believe in the "investigative judgment"..........."
I never quote Ellen White, I've never read her writings, and never plan to, but as far as reading others books like you seem to think you need, I do NOT read any books on the Bible or religion, I don't need more than the Bible, if you were close to God, you'd know this. The Bible is all you need, there is no need to look for answers elsewhere. I do discuss the Bible with others, and learn with them, but through discussion, not reading someone elses thoughts.

ehehehehehe[
I even said this "I do find some faults in their doctrine and leadership", it amazes me how hard you work to attack me, when you didn't even read what I said. All I said is they follow the Bible closer than any other church I've found. I don't know what goes on in all SDA churches, but the local one I go to often is full of good loving people who put the Bible first, and that is what I focus on, my local church. The General conference said that they will not make a change in ordination of women, but the North American Division made a statement in effect than they will not follow that and will keep the ordained women they have, and ordain more. This alone shows me they are in apostasy, it's not right, and as a whole, I think the church is lost, so I look for the good people to associate with, and speak out against the bad, in all churches, like Joel Osteen, Kenneth Koplan and so many more evil false leaders.
I even made it a point to say that I don't care about any church, I said "Jesus isn't going to ask to see your church membership papers when he returns"
I know these are the end times, set aside all the evil going on today, all I have to do is look at how life was for the past 5,900 years, then look at the past 100. We've lived the same for all that time, the biggest inventions were the sword and the wheel, then all of the sudden, boom, from that to what we have today. When it talked about an increase of knowledge in Danial, people had no idea what that really meant, and now that we're here, no one pays attention...
The Bible has proven itself to be true in so many ways.

I will finish with this. When I was about 17 I realized that people can't go to heaven when they die, you have to be judged worthy, and that day of judgment has not come. I also refused to believe that a God of love would send anyone into suffering for eternity. I have recently found scripture to back this up, and the only church I know that understands these things to be true, is the SDA church, that is why I attend their church, because they have more truth than any other church I know. Other churches want you to believe in eternity in hell to scare you, this helps them brainwash you.[/QUOTE]Its a matter of how one becomes worthy. You promote fear and I have peace you can't take away from me. Did you sin today by the Bible? Or did you keep your amended law (the 4th commandment)?

bugkiller

 

[Bryan G]

Wow! Total lie when you admitted you have never read Ellen Whites' writings? You have no idea what the church really believes. They revere Ellen and her writings. They hold her writings as being equal to scripture and indeed she did state that we will lose our eternal inheritance if we do not pay a faithful tithe and do not "keep" the Sabbath. The church believes this. You may have not heard it yet, but you said you are not a member, so how could you know everything? Sorry to get you so infuriated that you would say that I am hateful and misguided and furthermore have no credibility. Even more sorry for you that you would come unglued when you have never studied the facts about the "Spirit of Prophesy" and yet would try to defend those who should never be defended.

Read your own post again and then critique my post once more. I am only pointing out many things you have already observed about the church. For that I am hateful. You should be grateful that someone has the interest in helping good people see the real light. I know I am not perfect and I have not nor will I ever judge a person, that is not my MOS. I am allowed by scripture to judge the fruits of a church that teaches falsehood.

"Sorry to get you so infuriated"
There is another flaw of most people, they judge everyone by how they are. People who steal, think everyone steals, people who lie, think everyone lies. You get "infuriated", so you think I am, well, no, I'm not.

If you THINK Ellen said "we will lose our eternal inheritance if we do not pay a faithful tithe and do not "keep" the Sabbath" then show me, where does she say this, what book, what chapter. Anyone can make up anything they want, I don't know you, so I am not going to just take your word for it.

I already told you, I know there is falsehoods in the SDA church, I do not agree to all their fundamental beliefs. I already told you about the apostasy in the church, but it's still the best church I've found.

You completely lack understand on this. The fact that I don't know anything about Ellen W. has nothing to do with your accusation that SDA's say your salvation depends on knowing her writings because I know the people of the SDA church, in my area at least. I've been attending the SDA church since I was 40, I'm 53 now. The 4 years I lived in Hawaii I attended almost every week. Here in Milwaukee I go almost 3 times a month. I think that is enough to know. Also, the people here at the church in Milwaukee are friends. Not once, never, no one has ever told me that I need to believe in her writings to be saved. I tell them all the time that I will not read her writings and I am not convinced she was a prophet, and no one has ever said I have to believe she was.

I also told you that I'm talking about the churches I attend, maybe you visited ones that are more radical. But if some are like you claim, some are also like the one I attend, so not ALL SDA's are like you think, either way you lied. You are putting a blanket judgment over all the churches and all the people, when there is no way you can know how all SDA's are.

I'll take back everything I said if you can show me where Ellen W. said what you claim. I would like to see that, because if it's true, I would use that to show how she is wrong and this would be proof she's a false prophet.

 

[BobRyan]

It is true that most Adventists do not try to proselytize let alone "force" people. What is also true is that the church teaches that if we do not observe the Sabbath and pay tithe we will loose our eternal inheritance as per their revered prophet.

We have only "you" for that quote.

By contrast SDAs teach that there are saved saints in all denominations.

And I spent 40 years in the SDA church. During the last 5 years I started seeing cracks in the foundation.

Study your bible - I have pointed out dozens of places where you seemed to have missed a few details.

Just because someone "was SDA" does not mean they studied their Bible in depth.

But in fact that is "step 1".

 

[BobRyan]

Let's make it super easy ...

All efforts to oppose the Commandments of God can be resolved by answering this simple question

===========================


If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where?

========================= next

having provided the obvious answer to that question - the next point is addressed by Mark 7 telling us whether God's law can be edited/changed by church tradition.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

so then is Christ approving of church tradition editing/tweaking the Law of God in that scripture ?? simple question -- easy answer.

To try to say that just because Paul quotes one of the 10 to make his point is making the temporary 10 the Christians rule of guidance is pure ludicrous.

You are appealing to fiction to make your case in Eph 6 --- try using "Bible fact" instead.

In Eph 6 Paul did not say "HERE is a commandment just pulled out of thin air that happens to be someplace in the OT as well".

RATHER Paul adds a detail - being "carefully avoided" - by many opposed to God's Commandments.

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where?

If I were an old covenant law thumper I could quote Jesus in Matt 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth........

Which has NOTHING of the form "do this for it is the FIRST commandment with a promise" as if it is authoritative for Christians today as the first with a promise in the TEN Commandments and thus making all TEN authoritative.

Rather you appeal to a CIVIL law that Christ contrasts to moral law - emphasizing the moral law.

Not at all the form of the statement we see in Eph 6:2.

In actual Bible study -- "details matter"

 

[Bryan G]

You need to be reminded of Rev 22:14. Its an out right claim others don't possess salvation unless they keep the 7th day Sabbath. Unfortunately you and John are talking about different sets of commandments as easily identified in I John 3:23 and John 15:10.

I have no idea what you're talking about here...

If its merely ten little easy rules why is you don't keep them, especially the 4th as its written.? ]

I still don't understand what you're talking about, I'm the one that said I DO KEEP THEM. I do keep the 4th, are you talking to me or someone else???

Sure everyone who doesn't agree with you and take your view point as their own is hateful.

I'm not calling him hateful because he disagrees with me, I said that because of the way he responded, mean and... Ah, I already put it in the quote, you seem to pick and choose parts of my post and don't look at everything I said...

Here you're not asking us to keep the law but refrain from sin.

I really think your talking to someone else, I never said that. If you are talking to me, you didn't read anything I said, you just want to attack me and are making up lies. Everything I said is still there to be read, go back and see

Why is being led by the Holy Spirit contrasted with being lead by the law in Gal 5:18?

I never said that either. I never said your salvation is dependent on the law, but Jesus said if you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. So if you don't keep them, then you don't love him, so you are lost. This is common sense. Either you and the others arguing with me have no common sense, or you're trying to justify living a sinful life.

Please explain how the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus isn't suffienct for salvation.

Because you have to love Jesus. You have to accept him, you're not just saved because he died, you're saved because you love him, and if you love him, you'll keep his commandments.

Your claim is we must also keep the law which the Bible says there are none.

NO, you tell that to Jesus, who said if you love me, you'll keep my commandments. He repeated 9 of them, read the sermon on the mount. I'll give you one of many examples:
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30“If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Sounds like a law to me...

Say that to someone who's not paying attention nor knows anything about what she teaches.

???

Its a matter of how one becomes worthy. You promote fear and I have peace you can't take away from me. Did you sin today by the Bible? Or did you keep your amended law (the 4th commandment)?

No, I did not sin today. My wife was the speaker in a Spanish church today, I couldn't be there because I run the on-line streaming audio at my church, so I was in my church worshiping. Afterward we came home had dinner then worshiped with my daughters, singing and reading Bible stories to them, what does that sound like to you?
I don't follow the 10 commandments to be saved, I do it because they are moral laws, good laws, and Jesus asked me to keep them, not for salvation. If everyone followed the 10 commandments, this world would be a peaceful place. We wouldn't have to lock our doors and so on. I do my part to make this a better world. Those 10 laws are easy to follow, I don't see why anyone would fight against them, but people do, and they'll have to answer for that.. Why did you not keep my commandments Jesus will ask, why did you tell others they don't have to...

I don't promote fear, I'm the one showing people that hell is not eternal, I'm teaching the real Bible truth, that if you choose not to follow Christ, you'll have death, you will perish. Each will be judged according to their own doings and by what's in their heart.
You think you know me by just a few posts I've made here, that's very arrogant.
I also teach people that you will be judged by what you know. But as you learn more, more will be expected. There are those that don't know the Bible as well as me, and they will be judged accordingly, in other words, I'll be held to a higher standard, In other words, because I know more than maybe my neighbor, my judgment will be stricter.
God is a just God, he will not punish anyone that doesn't deserve it.
Does that sound like fear?

I was raised in a church that lied, they taught there is hell with no end, eternity in suffering, now that was fear. Now that I know the truth " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." if I'm not found worthy I just perish, the fear of hell forever is gone, no eternity in hell. And this is my biggest message when I share the gospel with people, there is no eternal hell so stop thinking God is hateful like many churches teach.