Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BukiRob]

Why go on the "bring the lamb to the alter" day when the apostles met on Sundays

They met daily period.... to suggest that this some how set aside Sabbath is foolishness

 

[BukiRob]

Show me one Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform congregation which has converted to being a Messianic congregation. The fact that Messianic congregations are becoming a fifth branch of Judaism (excluding the multiple Hassidic and other branches) does not negate the deeply-rooted hostility within all the other branches against it.

Show me an Orthodox congregation that has converted to Reformed... you have no point here....

 

[tulipbee]

Show me an Orthodox congregation that has converted to Reformed... you have no point here....

Many as split many times like a rough rock watered down to a smooth round rock. Time made the point.

 

[tulipbee]

They met daily period.... to suggest that this some how set aside Sabbath is foolishness

Saying you kept the ten commandments is self lying

 

[BobRyan]

They met daily period.... to suggest that this some how set aside Sabbath is foolishness

Those in Acts 2 met daily - but they did not cease all work daily - as if every day was the 4th commandment Sabbath. They still had observance of the 7th day Sabbath - as we can tell from Acts 21.

Acts 21
17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

 

[Bob S]

Those in Acts 2 met daily - but they did not cease all work daily - as if every day was the 4th commandment Sabbath. They still had observance of the 7th day Sabbath - as we can tell from Acts 21.

Acts 21
17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

Question: Did Paul in his writings forsake the law of Moses? (613 commands)

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse,
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

We read Paul, the ambassador for Christ, and he tell us we are not under the laws given to the Israelites and yet the prophet of the SDAs whose writing they deem as equal to scripture, tells them that if the do not observe the ritual weekly Sabbath they will eternally lost. If that is not being under the law then what is? If they do not faithfully pay tithe they will lose their eternal inheritance. God didn't put that decree on the Israelites to whom it was given. Who are SDAs to make that requirement and judgment. Not all Israelites were under the tithing law. Only those who raised crops or animals were subject to that law.

 

[Bob S]

Are Catholics "SDA" the way some seem to have it??? Do these Catholic documents "not exist" or "exist only to be noticed by Seventh-day Adventists"???

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II - is he secretly "SDA"??



[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
====================begin short summary
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]====================================== begin expanded quote
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]

for a group of people who denounce the Catholic church as being Babylon and many more divisive titles you are quick to use their statements as pure truth to uphold your false doctrine of a new covenant Holy Seventh-day worship period. Nowhere in the new testament does it require Christians to observe any day. Nowhere in all of history did God ever ask Gentile nations to observe a day. Where does the SDA church get the authority do do something God has never done? Could it be that Ellen White was a false prophet and her writings have deceived otherwise great people into believing untruths?

 

[BukiRob]

Question: Did Paul in his writings forsake the law of Moses? (613 commands)

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse,
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

We read Paul, the ambassador for Christ, and he tell us we are not under the laws given to the Israelites and yet the prophet of the SDAs whose writing they deem as equal to scripture, tells them that if the do not observe the ritual weekly Sabbath they will eternally lost. If that is not being under the law then what is? If they do not faithfully pay tithe they will lose their eternal inheritance. God didn't put that decree on the Israelites to whom it was given. Who are SDAs to make that requirement and judgment. Not all Israelites were under the tithing law. Only those who raised crops or animals were subject to that law.

Paul, makes it clear... THOSE WHO RELY on the law.... people repeatedly try and FORCE Torah observance with an attempt to "earn" salvation and NOTHING could be further from the truth.

Salvation occurs the same way for the believer of today as it did for David and the prophets. BY FAITH, through Grace....

Torah is about being obedient. Walking in the Light scripture declares that the Torah is a LAMP unto our feet directing our path. It is LIFE.... it is NOT about working for salvation.... it is about walking upright. It is about living a holy life.

 

[Bryan G]

for a group of people who denounce the Catholic church as being Babylon and many more divisive titles you are quick to use their statements as pure truth to uphold your false doctrine of a new covenant Holy Seventh-day worship period. Nowhere in the new testament does it require Christians to observe any day. Nowhere in all of history did God ever ask Gentile nations to observe a day. Where does the SDA church get the authority do do something God has never done? Could it be that Ellen White was a false prophet and her writings have deceived otherwise great people into believing untruths?

First, it's not just SDA's that call the papacy the beast of Revelation, it's part of what the protestant movement was all about, Martin Luther believed it, John Calvin, and so on...
Also, it's not just the SDA's keep the Sabbath. There are many, Seventh Day Baptist for example. There are many protestants that feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the 7th day Sabbath, like myself...
Gentile means not Jewish, who were the 10 commandments given to then, it was long before the Jews....
So you believe that the 10 commandments, written by God's own finger, do not apply to us?

 

[BobRyan]

Question: Did Paul in his writings forsake the law of Moses? (613 commands)

Answer -- scripture was not being deleted by Paul 2 Tim 3:16 but rather "ALL scripture" was to be used for doctrine according to Paul - including the scripture that Timothy knew as a child according to the actual text.

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

And as both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster confession of Faith" point out - this observance of the LAW - the moral law of God that includes the TEN Commandments - is not a replacement for the Gospel but rather it is in full harmony with the Gospel - where the LAW of God is written on the heart. Thus it is not salvation-by-law.

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse,
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Just as we see in the case of the OT saints of Hebrews 11

Heb 11
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

We read Paul, the ambassador for Christ, and he tells us we are to KEEP the Commandments of GOD "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - not making the LAW a Savior - but rather as born-again saints who "have the LAW written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:6-10

... tells them that if the do not observe the ritual weekly Sabbath they will eternally lost. If that is not being under the law then what is? If they do not faithfully pay tithe they will lose their eternal inheritance. .

SDAs rightly reject the man-made-tradition of OSAS also condemned in Romans 11 and in Matt 18 and in Hebrews 6 and in 1Cor 6 and in Matt 6 and in Ezek 18 and in...

We prefer the actual Bible - to man-made-tradition.

question for you - what "unit of LAW" is Eph 6:2 upholding for NEW Testament saints?

 

[BobRyan]

First, it's not just SDA's that call the papacy the beast of Revelation, it's part of what the protestant movement was all about, Martin Luther believed it, John Calvin, and so on...

So then - not too surprising that both the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" also mention that point in harmony with protestant reformers.

Also, it's not just the SDA's keep the Sabbath. There are many, Seventh Day Baptist for example.

Indeed. "Adventists" were sunday-keeping Christians until some members of the Seventh-day Baptist church prompted them to reconsider downsizing the TEN Commandments and notice that all TEN are approved of by God - written on the "heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant of Heb 8:6-10 and Jer 31:31-33. Shortly after that the Adventists organized into the "Seventh-day Adventist" church.

There are many protestants that feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the 7th day Sabbath, like myself...
Gentile means not Jewish, who were the 10 commandments given to then, it was long before the Jews....
So you believe that the 10 commandments, written by God's own finger, do not apply to us?

Good point.

Eph 6:2 makes it clear that they do apply to all people - just as those confessions of faith - admit.

 

[BobRyan]

Are Catholics "SDA" the way some seem to have it??? Do these Catholic documents "not exist" or "exist only to be noticed by Seventh-day Adventists"???

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II - is he secretly "SDA"??

The Faith Explained] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
"changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

=========== begin expanded quote from the "Faith Explained" pg 243


"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. That is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
==================================

To refute the claims made in that article quoted above - one would need to prove that the Bible documents a change of the Lord's Day in is 58:13 from Sabbath to week-day-1. IT never does that!

So then what is the "other" choice of a response?

for a group of people who denounce the Catholic church as being Babylon and many more divisive titles you are quick to use their statements as pure truth to uphold your false doctrine of a new covenant Holy Seventh-day worship period. Nowhere in the new testament does it require Christians to observe any day.

you still did not find a text refuting the statement in that quoted article.

So then - I have some for you.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
the "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" REv 14:12
"there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4.
"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"I will write my LAW on their HEART and MIND" Heb 8:6-10 speaking of the Commandments given by Christ at Sinai.

Nowhere in the NEW testament do you find the Command "do not take the name of the Lord your God in vain" - that does not mean that NT saints deleted that commandment as we see in Eph 6:2

Nowhere in all of history did God ever ask Gentile nations to observe a day.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

"The Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

And so we SEE Gentiles keeping Sabbath -- Sabbath after Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 and the church references this in Acts 15.

The bogus idea that "Ellen White wrote all those pro-Sabbath Bible texts" does not fly with most Christians. As I am sure we can all agree. So no need to "go there"

 

[BobRyan]

As for the RCC claims on this point --

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/QUOTE]


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

 

[BukiRob]

First, it's not just SDA's that call the papacy the beast of Revelation, it's part of what the protestant movement was all about, Martin Luther believed it, John Calvin, and so on...
Also, it's not just the SDA's keep the Sabbath. There are many, Seventh Day Baptist for example. There are many protestants that feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the 7th day Sabbath, like myself...
Gentile means not Jewish, who were the 10 commandments given to then, it was long before the Jews....
So you believe that the 10 commandments, written by God's own finger, do not apply to us?

This is all in keeping with the end times. Ecc tells us what was from the beginning is revealed at the end. That which was will be again.

Scripture is not haphazard it says what it means and it is both literal and figurative. MANY are starting to question just what role DOES the Torah play?

Once you learn and realize that salvation NEVER, EVER occurred at ANY POINT IN TIME as a method of attaining salvation, the the natural question becomes... what purpose does it serve then.... Its purpose is to show us HOW to walk upright. HOW we are to love G-d and HOW we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.

When you accept that Yeshua (Jesus) said exactly what he meant when he declared that he DID NOT come to abolish the law but that he came to (pleroo; translated as fulfill) carry out the law and observe it as it should be observed and "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

 

[Bob S]

First, it's not just SDA's that call the papacy the beast of Revelation, it's part of what the protestant movement was all about, Martin Luther believed it, John Calvin, and so on...
Also, it's not just the SDA's keep the Sabbath. There are many, Seventh Day Baptist for example. There are many protestants that feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the 7th day Sabbath, like myself...
Gentile means not Jewish, who were the 10 commandments given to then, it was long before the Jews....
So you believe that the 10 commandments, written by God's own finger, do not apply to us?

Are you open enough to believe Luther and Calvin were wrong? Today it would appear that Arab terrorism is the group that is the power that would cause the final conflict.

I would ask that you prove that the 10 commandments were part of any nation or clan before Sinai. That was a careless point, one that I already know cannot be proved. Hint, the 4th commandment explains about God leading the Israelites out of Egypt and He told them to honor it because of their escape Deut 5:15. Now lets get real when debating.

The 10 were given to the Israelite nation at Sinai, period. They were not given to their ancestors, Deut 5.

What has the significance of God's finger have to do with whether Christians are under those rules. Morality is forever. Man was instilled from the beginning with moral values. the 9 moral values of the 10 certainly are part of God's desire for man, but they are just the tip of the iceberg. The 10 didn't even contain the law of love. Think about it my friend. So no, Christians are not under the old law, we are under the New Covenant that is not like the old, Heb 8, Jeremiah 31. If we love God (Jesus) with all our hearts and our fellow man as Jesus loves us we will keep His commands, the law of love.

By the way,maybe you are not aware but the Sabbath law was a ritual law as were all special Sabbaths. Morality has to do with God and our fellow man. Think about it. In Christ, Bob.

 

[BobRyan]

First, it's not just SDA's that call the papacy the beast of Revelation, it's part of what the protestant movement was all about, Martin Luther believed it, John Calvin, and so on...
Also, it's not just the SDA's keep the Sabbath. There are many, Seventh Day Baptist for example. There are many protestants that feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the 7th day Sabbath, like myself...
Gentile means not Jewish, who were the 10 commandments given to then, it was long before the Jews....
So you believe that the 10 commandments, written by God's own finger, do not apply to us?

So then - not too surprising that both the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" also mention that point in harmony with protestant reformers.

Indeed. "Adventists" were sunday-keeping Christians until some members of the Seventh-day Baptist church prompted them to reconsider downsizing the TEN Commandments and notice that all TEN are approved of by God - written on the "heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant of Heb 8:6-10 and Jer 31:31-33. Shortly after that the Adventists organized into the "Seventh-day Adventist" church.

Eph 6:2 makes it clear that that unit of TEN does still apply to all people - just as those confessions of faith - admit.

Are you open enough to believe Luther and Calvin were wrong?

Calvin was wrong about OSAS.
Luther was wrong about infant baptism.

Spurgeon liked them both to some degree - but that did not stop him from accepting the fact that the Bible Sabbath commandment applied to mankind in Eden and also to this very day.

I would ask that you prove that the 10 commandments were part of any nation or clan before Sinai.

Or we could just stick with the Bible. Romans 4 - where there is no Law there is no sin.
Gen 4 - "Sin is crouching at your door but you must master it"
Gen 26:5 " because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Ex 16 BEFORE Sinai "tomorrow IS the Sabbath"

The 10 were given to the Israelite nation at Sinai, period. They were not given to their ancestors, Deut 5.

hint:
Eph 6:2 makes it clear that that unit of TEN does still apply to all people - just as those confessions of faith - admit.

Morality has to do with God and our fellow man.

According to the Bible - rebellion against the Command of God is sin - and does not show love for God.

 

[BukiRob]

Saying you kept the ten commandments is self lying

Where did I make such a claim?

Please stop making false claims.

There is a big difference between being aware that the Father has called ALL of his children to walk upright and those that ignore the Torah and claim it is done away with.

 

[tulipbee]

Where did I make such a claim?

Please stop making false claims.

There is a big difference between being aware that the Father has called ALL of his children to walk upright and those that ignore the Torah and claim it is done away with.

Sure, you keep the sabbath and break the rest of the nine. Is that how it works?

 

[Bob S]

Eph 6:2 makes it clear that that unit of TEN does still apply to all people - just as those confessions of faith - admit.

To try to say that just because Paul quotes one of the 10 to make his point is making the temporary 10 the Christians rule of guidance is pure ludicrous. If I were an old covenant law thumper I could quote Jesus in Matt 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth........ and tell everyone that because He quoted a verse from the book of the law we are all now under all of the book of the law. Again, it appears that you will go to any length to uphold your false prophets writings.

Lets make it clear Christians are not under Torah law. I know you didn't say we are, but you approved Buckirobs post.

 

[Bryan G]

edited