Man and dinosaur coexisting

[Hoghead1]

You are overlooking some important material here, Isaiah 51. First, it is debatable if the Bible is referring specifically to dinosaurs. That might be your interpretation, but there are others. Secondly, one explanation about dragons, which goes back to the days of the famous empiricist John Locke, is that human imagination is never very free. It goes on previous experience. Hence, having seen smaller reptiles, the human imagination blew them up into dragons, etc. There is evidence of researchers finding fossils way back in BC times. It may have been that some of our ancestors also found fossils and then interpreted them as dragons, etc. There is also consideration given to the fact that the dinosaurs never went completely extinct, that some did manage to remain, or at least creatures like them. After all, there is some evidence, even photographic evidence of lake monsters. And there is the story of St. Colombo, who won over the Scots because he drove the monster, which had been ripping up everyone and terrorizing even the tough chieftains, back into to the lake, never to bother humans again. So maybe some did survive. However, as the story of Colombo indicates, it was probably not many. There is no way we could ever cohabit with a planet full of these creatures. Given just one on the loose, the hearty Scots couldn't compete and so had to call upon God to help. Also, there has been considerable fakery here, especially on pots found in Mexico, or at least brought to archaeologists and others by persons asking a price, of course. You can't be sure it these are real or a big racket.

 

[Hoghead1]

That is correct. The Bible has changed over the years. There was actually no Bible or canon 3500 years ago. That came much later, after NT times. And there were debates about what books to include. Originally, you had the Septuagint (Greek) and the Hebrew. The former contained more books than the latter. Hence, depending on which side you stand, you Bible may or may not contain the Apocrypha or books taken from the Greek edition. The Dead Sea Scrolls go back to about 150 BC at the earliest. Hence, they are hardly 3500 years old. Comparing their OT material with later Masoretic texts, shows there is definitely a uniformity of text. However, there are about 2000 major discrepancies, which show the scribes did tamper with the texts over the years. A famous one is that over time, the Book of Samuel got shorter and Goliath got taller. Also the DSS contain books that probably were holy or a kind of Bible for the Essenes, but no way made it into ours for whatever reason. There were, for example, 15 unknown psalms found. Many laity are unaware that the early Christian community actually had two Bibles. There were the "orthodox, " who had a Bible and belief system much like ours. However, there was also a powerful gnostic Christian movement, which offered a completely different set of gospels, as found in 1947. The orthodox and the gnostics were like a cat and a dog. Each accused the other of spin-doctoring the life of Christ. The gnostic gospels are night and day from what we are used to. According to their Bible, Moses was a fool who fell for all the rules crated by an inferior god who created the world. Also Jesus was emphatically said to be not Jewish. And it was clearly stated that Jesus never went to the Cross, but rather some fool did. And it was stated that there was no need in the first place for Christ to be crucified. So, as you can see, what is Bible and what isn't has changed down through the ages.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So you are that smart? Wow. That must hurt.

As I have said many times: We are taught of God, we have the Holy Spirit of God to be our Teacher and to guide us and to leads us into the truth. I could understand the Bible on my own apart from God.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1JN2:27

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Bible has changed over the years. There was actually no Bible or canon 3500 years ago.

Moses had all of God's plan, nothing has been added.

 

[Hoghead1]

Well, Joshua, the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch went out the window years ago in serious biblical studies. Now you can disagree with that if you want. However, you need to carefully review the case and provide s solid rational rebuttal. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be arguing that you are taught by the Spirit and so absolutely right in everything you say. If so, I think you should humble up. The Holy Spirit does not cause a miracle by which we are no longer human and subject to error. Hence, you do not have the monopoly on God's truth that you may think you have.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Well, Joshua, the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch went out the window years ago in serious biblical studies. Now you can disagree with that if you want. However, you need to carefully review the case and provide s solid rational rebuttal. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be arguing that you are taught by the Spirit and so absolutely right in everything you say. If so, I think you should humble up. The Holy Spirit does not cause a miracle by which we are no longer human and subject to error. Hence, you do not have the monopoly on God's truth that you may think you have.

I realize that parts of Genesis were copied from Clay tablets and they go back to before Moses.

 

[Hoghead1]

Where on earth, Joshua 19, did you come up with this clay-tablet idea? There is not a shred of evidence to back this up. Where are the tablets, for example? If you mean something like the earlier account of Gilgamesh, I agree. But that is not the Genesis account. In terms of a serious historical and literary study of the Pentateuch, it appears to be written long after Moses.

 

[JacksBratt]

All of the things you said evolution says 'no' to are things that are not important to evolution. God could have made the world and planted the seed for a common ancestor and evolution would still be an accurate description for the diversification of life.
You're just projecting your own idiosyncrasies about the world on to the theory of evolution.

All those things are not important to evolution because evolution is like a guy who joins a triathlon 100 yards from the final finish line. He didn't do the swim, the cycling or most of the running. He cannot swim, doesn't know how to ride a bike. He shows up and run's 100 yards and "wins".

When asked how he got there he says that's not important. What's important is that "I'm here".

As for God planting the seed for evolution..... this is my take.

1/ I have faith that God created the universe as stated literally in Genesis. Yep, that takes faith.
2/ It takes infinitely more faith to believe that life spontaneously and suddenly with no explanation whatsoever and then miraculously ate, replicated, and given enough time we get all the living beings we have on this earth.
3/ It is a cop out to state that I don't know which of the above are true so I'm just going to say that "yes" God created the original life form, then He just sat back and watched the show for billions of years until He finally got His prize "creation" which is "man".

I will finish by stating that If my God did create the whole universe by speaking, as I believe and Theistic evolutionists believe, then it takes absolutely no more faith to believe that the Genesis account is true and He created all beings in their kind. Mankind is God's ultimate and most intimate creation. He didn't allow us to develop over some astronomical amount of time. We were MADE in His image.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Where on earth, Joshua 19, did you come up with this clay-tablet idea? There is not a shred of evidence to back this up. Where are the tablets, for example? If you mean something like the earlier account of Gilgamesh, I agree. But that is not the Genesis account. In terms of a serious historical and literary study of the Pentateuch, it appears to be written long after Moses.

I got that in a book written by David L Cooper Th.M., Ph.D.,Litt.D. It was a book in a series written to be used by people working on their Ph.D. The preface was written in 1939. So that was back before all the new age revisionism you see today now that we are in the time of the great apostasy. http://www.ariel.org/dlc/dlc.htm

They have software now so you can tell what was written by different authors. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/an-israeli-algorithm-shed_n_886996.html

 

[Loudmouth]

Evolution is the ecosystem.

No, it isn't. Evolution is a scientific theory.

You claim there is something wrong with it, yet you can't point to a single thing that is wrong with it. See a problem?

 

[Loudmouth]

All those things are not important to evolution because evolution is like a guy who joins a triathlon 100 yards from the final finish line. He didn't do the swim, the cycling or most of the running. He cannot swim, doesn't know how to ride a bike. He shows up and run's 100 yards and "wins".

When asked how he got there he says that's not important. What's important is that "I'm here".

If all you are doing is explaining how he ran that last 100 yeards, why would you need to know how he got there?

All evolution does is explain how life changed once it was here. That's it. We don't need to know how life got here in order to discover the mechanisms that caused life to change once it was here.

 

[Loudmouth]

What evidence do you have that there are transitional fossils within a species.

We have fossils that have a mixture of features between and earlier species and a later species. That's the evidence.

Evolution is just a process of the species fine tuning itself to the environment.

How do species do that? What are the mechanisms?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

All those things are not important to evolution because evolution is like a guy who joins a triathlon 100 yards from the final finish line. He didn't do the swim, the cycling or most of the running. He cannot swim, doesn't know how to ride a bike. He shows up and run's 100 yards and "wins".

When asked how he got there he says that's not important. What's important is that "I'm here".

As for God planting the seed for evolution..... this is my take.

1/ I have faith that God created the universe as stated literally in Genesis. Yep, that takes faith.
2/ It takes infinitely more faith to believe that life spontaneously and suddenly with no explanation whatsoever and then miraculously ate, replicated, and given enough time we get all the living beings we have on this earth.
3/ It is a cop out to state that I don't know which of the above are true so I'm just going to say that "yes" God created the original life form, then He just sat back and watched the show for billions of years until He finally got His prize "creation" which is "man".

I will finish by stating that If my God did create the whole universe by speaking, as I believe and Theistic evolutionists believe, then it takes absolutely no more faith to believe that the Genesis account is true and He created all beings in their kind. Mankind is God's ultimate and most intimate creation. He didn't allow us to develop over some astronomical amount of time. We were MADE in His image.

And this whole post proves that you don't remotely know anything about the theory of evolution and you just want to believe the Bible instead the words God has actually written in to the world he made.

 

[Heissonear]

Many Evolutionists fail to understand the faith they have in "evolution".

Tooth and nail they fight to deny any faith is required.

JacksBratt has listed above the obvious and clear to see faith Evolutionists have.

I remembered the day when I woke up to recognizing the faith I had placed in natural processes to produce continual mutation, adaptation, and natural selection of life forms over geologic time.

Faith is required at the beginning. Many lack discernment over what transpired within them in times past.

 

[RickG]

Many Evolutionists fail to understand the faith they have in "evolution".

Tooth and nail they fight to deny any faith is required.

JacksBratt has listed above the obvious and clear to see faith Evolutionists have.

I remembered the day when I woke up to recognizing the faith I had placed in natural processes to produce continual mutation, adaptation, and natural selection of life forms over geologic time.

Faith is required at the beginning. Many lack discernment over what transpired within then in times past.

So you are saying faith is a bad thing?

 

[joshua 1 9]

So you are saying faith is a bad thing?

It depends on what you are putting your faith in. If you put your faith in God you can not go wrong because He promises not to disappoint us.

http://www.crossroad.to/HisWord/verses/topics/trust.htm

 

[Isaiah55:6]

We have fossils that have a mixture of features between and earlier species and a later species. That's the evidence.



How do species do that? What are the mechanisms?

What you have is species that get mutated and new features are added or subtracted and become a different type of the same animal. Like a yellow lab and a Shepard. But they are both still the dog 'kind'. You don't have fossils of one 'kind' of animal turning into another 'kind' of animal. Eg, an ape into a man or a dog into a whale. The first horse would have mutated and became other types of horse but it's still a horse of course.

 

[Heissonear]

And this whole post proves that you don't remotely know anything about the theory of evolution and you just want to believe the Bible instead the words God has actually written in to the world he made.

Jack has correctly stated how God spoke this natural world into existence, that Creation has not existed for billions of years.

You say this is not so because of not "understanding evolution".

Sorry mate, I grew up and was formally educated an Evolutionist. No, understanding evolution is not the key, as you proposed.

It appears you have tripped over interpreting natural artifacts through mental deductions. We can all make mistakes in the process of learning to be sensitive to and taught by His Holy Spirit.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Jack has correctly stated how God spoke this natural world into existence, that Creation has not existed for billions of years.

You say this is not so because of not "understanding evolution".

Sorry mate, I grew up and was formally educated an Evolutionist. No, understanding evolution is not the key, as you proposed.

It appears you have tripped over interpreting natural artifacts through mental deductions. We can all make mistakes in the process of learning to be sensitive to and taught by His Holy Spirit.

If the Earth has only existed for 6,000 years, as the Bible claims, then why does all of the evidence point towards the Earth existing for 4.5 billion years?
And if the Bible is the word of God (I thoroughly do not believe it is, but for the sake of the argument let's pretend it is), then does that mean that God has been deceptive in making all of the evidence point towards an old Earth?

 

[Heissonear]

So you are saying faith is a bad thing?

If one has lived godless and becomes an open seeker of a Creator the Holy Spirit uses it as a tutor.